Belonging

I'm not sure if there's a better place to put this, but I need to discuss some things openly.

To be quite honest, I'm not sure where I belong anymore. I used to come here quite often. I felt I was a Jedi, until things happened in my life that drove me toward the dark. I spent some time with the Sith, but eventually felt like I didn't belong there either. I'm a bit too dark for the Jedi, and a bit too light for the Sith.

I really just don't know where to go to talk about this sort of thing. I want to be the good guy, but sometimes I just feel like I don't care. Maybe it's just because I feel like I can't do anything to change things for the better, and I feel powerless.

I'd rather be a Jedi than a Sith. I'd rather be good than bad. Hell, my dark side ain't very dark anyway.

If you have any advice, I am all ears.

What if instead of a "good guy" or a "bad guy" you're just a guy, doing his best, without labels for a while?

I think it's good to sometimes in life just be a free agent, learning what it feels good to learn, and where it feels good to learn it. And then eventually perhaps one label or another will naturally fit for a while. Or maybe not. But I don't think forcing the choice is necessary.

Hey Streen,

I'm not sure I can offer advice, but perhaps my own feelings will help.

I've been in and out of TOTJO over the last 7/8 years or so struggling to feel like I ought to be here for various reasons. The difference the most recent time around is that I knew that even though I wasn't sure about being a Jedi, or being at TOTJO, or being a knight, I knew that I wanted to help people and I wanted to teach. Those things drove, and still drive me, to be part of this Temple.

Belonging is a word that I think distracts us, because it implies that there is a premade space in which we fit that exists just for us. But the truth is that belonging is a point of view. I don't call myself a Jedi which might cause some to ask me why I'm here, but I know that I want to be here, and so I am here.

Because I struggle so much with religion and beliefs and organised groups of any kind, I've had a lot of push and pull with places over the years, even way back from when I was a kid. I've come to the conclusion that for me, belonging isn't a quality of a place that I am, it's a side effect of my desires and my own confidence in myself. When we doubt ourselves, we undermine ourselves.

Perhaps don't worry so much about the label. I'm a Satanist and most would think that might put me with the Sith, but it doesn't. You are who you are and labels are too restrictive to fully describe a person in their entirety.

Do you want to be here? Do you want to learn here? If yes, then the label doesn't matter.

If you'd like to talk about this privately, my inbox is always open.

Streen,

Jedi or Sith, your one of us. Your one of ALL of us. You always will be. We know your name. We have read your words. We're glad your here.

If I had a suggestion, it would be to remove any unnecessary chemical or mental distractions for, say about a month, and focus on The Force.

You are one with the Force. The Force is with You.

Hey Streen,

I feel you on this, this being in the middle thing and not knowing what side to choose or take, however I agree with both River and Edan, that you don't have to take a side to anything. If we keep talking about sides we're falling right into that game of black and white that Alan Watts is talking about, making things separate when they aren't.

Both "good" and "bad" live within us. of course both being subjective as well. But truly this is all about balancing the dialectic of it ya know? Both things can be true at the same time, you can want to do good, and you can also give into your emotions and get angry and feel dark and brooding ya know? Both can be true at the same time, you don't have to choose at all. There is a middle path that you've yet to find, however I believe that you're in the right place to find that middle path Streen.

I've done a lot of back and forth spiritually in my life. Was a "tower master" in a necromantic society, then I was in training to become a priest in the catholic church, then I was dark and brooding and became an occultist working with the Goetia, then I went back to the church, and.......well you can see where i'm going with this, I was ping ponging all over the place, because I was failing to see the dialectic in all of this, that I can both identify with darker things and lighter things, and still just be David. I'm simply David, I'm not my feelings or thoughts, I'm experiencing them, but I am just David. Hopefully that makes sense man!

Moral of the story is, stick around, find community here, and it might help you find some balance if you really take the time to talk all this through. I'm with Edan when I say my DM's are always open and i'll get back to you asap.

-David

Kahlil Gibran on Good & Evil

Of the good in you I can speak, but not of the evil.
For what is evil but good tortured by its own hunger and thirst?
Verily when good is hungry it seeks food even in dark caves, and when it thirsts it drinks even of dead waters.

You are good when you are one with yourself.
Yet when you are not one with yourself you are not evil.
For a divided house is not a den of thieves; it is only a divided house.
And a ship without rudder may wander aimlessly among perilous isles yet sink not to the bottom.

You are good when you strive to give of yourself.
Yet you are not evil when you seek gain for yourself.
For when you strive for gain you are but a root that clings to the earth and sucks at her breast.
Surely the fruit cannot say to the root, "Be like me, ripe and full and ever giving of your abundance."
For to the fruit giving is a need, as receiving is a need to the root.

You are good when you are fully awake in your speech,
Yet you are not evil when you sleep while your tongue staggers without purpose.
And even stumbling speech may strengthen a weak tongue.

You are good when you walk to your goal firmly and with bold steps.
Yet you are not evil when you go thither limping.
Even those who limp go not backward. But you who are strong and swift, see that you do not limp before the lame, deeming it kindness.

You are good in countless ways, and you are not evil when you are not good,
You are only loitering and sluggard.
Pity that the stags cannot teach swiftness to the turtles.

In your longing for your giant self lies your goodness: and that longing is in all of you.
But in some of you that longing is a torrent rushing with might to the sea, carrying the secrets of the hillsides and the songs of the forest.
And in others it is a flat stream that loses itself in angles and bends and lingers before it reaches the shore.
But let not him who longs much say to him who longs little, "Wherefore are you slow and halting?"
For the truly good ask not the naked, "Where is your garment?" nor the houseless, "What has befallen your house?"

Good call, bringing in Gibran. Genius of a man, him.
I enjoyed rereading this and I suspect I'll be spending time with The Prophet at the weeknd.

We are human. We are not "all good" or "all evil". We are not all light or dark. We are a blend of all we have experienced both good and bad. We are also creatures of choice, and we change over time. What may have us feeling like we belong one day may change another. "Belonging" is within yourself, not a place or group of people.

You don't even have to choose one side of yourself over the other. You can find balance and walk what you feel is your light and shadow. And then you find people who accept you for who you are and support you.

For me, and for what I feel will be for a good while, this is where I find many kinds of people with many different backgrounds and beliefs. And even so, we find support and growth together.

Only you can know for you. But here you are not judges by a label, or at all really. This is a pretty open door kind of place where you are always welcome.

Identity is a difficult thing to grapple with.

I don't know if this will help any, but maybe it will. There are several Old Guard members that are going through this. I know of at least 4 that are struggling to find a place they can belong within the Jedi Community and trying to take up training roles within it to do so. And several others who have returned thinking they could find something from the past, only to discover that the community has moved in a direction they didn't want to follow. Those people are still trying to process where they fit into the world.

A lot of that has occurred in the last year, year and a half. I know your struggle has been going on for far longer. But you're not alone.

Streen wrote: I'm not sure if there's a better place to put this, but I need to discuss some things openly.

To be quite honest, I'm not sure where I belong anymore. I used to come here quite often. I felt I was a Jedi, until things happened in my life that drove me toward the dark. I spent some time with the Sith, but eventually felt like I didn't belong there either. I'm a bit too dark for the Jedi, and a bit too light for the Sith.

I really just don't know where to go to talk about this sort of thing. I want to be the good guy, but sometimes I just feel like I don't care. Maybe it's just because I feel like I can't do anything to change things for the better, and I feel powerless.

I'd rather be a Jedi than a Sith. I'd rather be good than bad. Hell, my dark side ain't very dark anyway.

If you have any advice, I am all ears.

Hi Streen, good to see ya back again. One can never really stray for ones path.
The level of evolvement is always up to the individual at any time. One day my eyes may dim and my efforts may change but I will always be Jedi by choice. The light and the dark of things can take on many forms and ideas. If I may, ever think of things as known and unknown? No light and dark just how much do you know? There was a time, when I was so broken hearted, love wasn't much... of a friend of mine, till I did something about it. That first part is a song but I hope you understand. This journey of self reflection can be a tough one and it may be as if you are alone. There are things only you can define and understand. This is that feeling of alone for me sometimes but...
To be self sufficient usually means no one else is around. Part of the gig. Choosing character is usually a Solo act, SW pun intended. To seek a modern day Jedi like character is as illusive as finding a Lego Death Star in its original box. They are out there but rare. Where would we even begin to look?

I tell many people in life that there can be some times in life we have to make our own place to stand. I know when I first started my Jedi path I was and felt alone. Still am but here's the thing, now I help those make their own way. There is a old saying and sometimes it actually helps me, be the change. The alone does go away and gets redefined in the process of things. It changes when you add the Force. It grows into something else like a connection. You would be surprised at some connections you realize you share when you look off the screen and on your path. Please continue. If ever you feel like you need to holla or even just gripe complain or swear out, call me up my friend. I am around as always and am willing to serve those who continue to be here. May the Force " continue" to be with you
Pastor Carlos

After three failed apprenticeships, and twice as many hiatuses; I've learned to treat the community as a way of life, rather than an answer to it.

I remember in high school being all about tripp pants and slipknot; however now prefer Chillhop and slouch beanies. Our identities are continuously evolving and changing, and in foolishness we identify the items of our fleeting interest as somehow foundational to who we are.

Don't beat yourself up too much over it.

We should be wary of labels we place on others, but even more on ourselves. I took on the label of Dark Aspect 20 years ago and found that many, many years and lifetimes of experiences later, it no longer fit me. It was a realization that was slow because the things I wanted to do (teach, lead, help) seemed to fit it but it was in the completely wrong direction. People change.

So as others have said, I will echo: don't worry about the labels. Live from your heart and not what others define in boxes. Be your authentic self and look for what fits that. Be prepared to put one thing on a shelf for a while when it doesn't fit, and take on something else. I think if you are authentic inside, then this kind of seeking for what matches on the outside is a natural and worthwhile journey.

Well you've all given consistent answers, so it's pretty clear where I've made an error.

I used to think the same way, actually, that I shouldn't place labels on myself or define my life to one extreme or another. It's funny, after thinking that way for so long (at least 10 or 15 years) I feel like I need some sort of definition. I need to know who and what I am. I guess it's just part of getting older. I'm 40 now. Maybe it's one of those mid-life crises I hear so much about.

I feel alone, and I don't want to feel that way anymore. I think I'd much rather be a part of this group than any other. It feels... better. It's not perfect, though. I just get the sensation that I'm more welcome here.

I've been a Jedi now for longer than I haven't, if that makes sense. 1996 was a hell of a year. I found myself longing for those times again, when studying the Force was a new thing, and being a Jedi was rare. There was more mystery in those days. But I know I can't turn the clock back, and I have to accept that.

Looking toward the future though, I hope I can find some of that mystery again.

I reckon there's still plenty of wonder and mystery to be had, if you stay open to it

I couldn't agree more with River. There is plenty of awe and wonder still left in all of this. Just because we have discovered so much about Jediism, energy work, qigong, holistic medicine, etc. doesn't mean that it is a complete thing! There is still so much left to learn, and our discovery can continue every single day. Hell that discovery can come in the form of you figuring out each day how you connect with something different like that tree, like that rock, the ground we stand on, the air we breathe, the person on the street, and just rediscovering the magic of that interconnection. What a great way to re-awaken that sense of newness and wonder ya know? The mantra I like is "I am other." I just say it when i'm out and about feeling sad, disconnected, and depressed. It helps me to realize that i'm more connected than I think, and it helps me feel that energetic connection that we are all sharing constantly.

You're in the right place my fine sir! If you ever want to get to know one another more, or have someone to talk to, my DM's are always open! Kudos to you for sticking it out and wanting to continue pushing forth in your own personal growth!

It's been a long time since I felt that mystery, that newness, that novelty. Not that I know everything, I just haven't learned anything fresh for quite a while. If anyone can provide something like that, I'm open to it.

On another note, I think I've figured out what and who I am. I've been thinking about it ever since I started this thread. But I'm not going to say what that is, because that would limit me in others' eyes, so to speak. The label I'm using for myself is personal, and it's somewhat related to the past, to my training back in the 90's. It sort of balances out my light and dark sides.

Thanks for your help everyone

Streen wrote: It's been a long time since I felt that mystery, that newness, that novelty. Not that I know everything, I just haven't learned anything fresh for quite a while. If anyone can provide something like that, I'm open to it.

Always willing to help where I can Streen