Is Trumps Boarder Wall Antithetical To Jedi Doctrine?

Sorry dont mean to be all offensive but just revealer of the truth. you have already answered your own question. you have already stated an example in detail in Tulsa of how to do it. stop looking at community A and start looking at community B. you cant define yourself according to someone else. that does not work. focus on your issue and then work the problem, just like community A did but dont use them as a measure stick. Make your own way and stop looking for the handout.

I'm sorry but you clearly don't understand economics so arguing with you would be an education in pain. And I'm starting to see that both of you have a lack of understanding between personal finance and personal wealth vs community wealth. I would try to explain it to you but I already did and you just didn't get it. And now I feel like you are confusing ME and my personal financial situation with that of my community.
Because...?

Oh I see... when its something bad/negative then I should be responsible for other people. That's kinda how stereotypes work. And when a bunch of people, just like you, run around saying all this stuff about Community B, not seeming to realize that Community B must work for Community A because they own everything, then these stereotypes can cause people to discriminate against Community B as a whole, making it harder for them to get jobs; hence why Community B occupies so many government jobs because the government cannot get away with as much discrimination has private business can. But it's people just like you that "don't see color" (or at least who say that) that help create the environment in which people definitely do see color and connect that to people being ignorant because that is the only explanation they can think of why the COMMUNITY doesn't have more prosperity, is because of personal finances and things everyone can control and be responsible for. Meanwhile, wanting to ignore how their own community came into that power/wealth.

And I'm not saying, you're guilty or you should be ashamed. I'm not casting any blame. I'm simply asking how can Community B duplicate the (economic) RESULTS without duplicating the actions (war, theft, expropriation, etc). Because Community B is being blamed for our results. You're telling me not to use community A as a measuring stick but what stick are you using to judge community B? Because Community B has millionaires and a handful of billionaires. But that's not the same as having an economy that provides benefits and opportunities and allows for the creation of wealth INSIDE the community.

The reality is that Community B works. And no one wants to be on social safety net programs because they really do not pay out enough to really live on. People, white and black, A and B, are adapting to the pitfalls, pressures, viruses, and whatever else that is forming their environment. But it's like the housing market. You can keep your house as shiny as you want but the value depends on the whole neighborhood and school district. And if the price of everything keeps going up and your wages aren't then low income families aren't going to be able to handle extra bills and a bunch of extra costs to keep their property value up or raise it.

And uh... my sister already lives in Community A along with husband who is also a doctor and their 2 kids so what are you talking about? Meanwhile, they still be shop at businesses and eating at restaurants owned by community A as well as contributing to Community A's schools. I can't even work in the community because there are no companies there in my industry. But I lived in Community B and drove an hour to work for the last 8 years. So now I'm going to move half way. The point is... you're thinking too much about how much money goes into your pocket at the end of the day. When you're part of community A you have that luxury and you can take your economy for granted as a result. But I can't do that. I have to think about where the money goes after I get and if there is a way I can try to keep more of it in community B for the economic benefit of the community as a whole.

You have to have ownership in Google in order to get any value when Google makes money. And I own shares in several companies so I understanding investing. Your return is dependent upon how much you can put in and it's easy for you to judge. You don't have a community that needs to be bought back. You just have your own bootstraps to worry about. That's completely different than what we're talking about. One is personal finance. The other is ECONOMICS.

oh and yes I do deny that community A started with Free stuff.

So community A bought everything at fair market value?????????

Of course... what should I expect. You probably think that as long as you bought the slave all his years of labor were bought and paid for, as well as his children, and his children's children.

smh.

Wow, lets see how many white racial stereotypes I can pull out of this nonsense.


Im a willfully ignorant whitey who is not smart enough to even tell the difference between personal finances and economics.. (whatever that fancy term is!)

there is a buncha "people like me" all running around spreading propaganda to keep the black man down.

White people own ABSOLUTELY EVERYTHING and wont give any to the black man. welfare must be a lie as well!

black people can only get govt jobs because all private businesses will NEVER hire them.

all white communities keep out black people because they dont want them to know the secret of their success which is war, exploitation, theft and discrimination.

the all black community the white man has herded the black man into has a few millionares but we keep them in cages so they cant bring any sort of economic prosperity to those all black communities

the black women have not become dependent on wellfare by having tons of fatherless children but instead are subject to white mans unfair pressures and pitfalls we create to keep the black man down as well as actually creating viruses in the form of plague blankets the whites give to the blacks so they are all sick all the time.

whites keep raising prices every time the black man starts to get a foot hold so we can unlodge them again from improving their stance in life.

If a black man wants a job in a white community then that community will actually shut that business down so there is no opportunity for them to move there.

The few blacks that do escape these hell hole communities and secretly move to white communites become traitors to their race most likely through the lure of greed the white man teases them with and they begin pretending they are white and only spend money in white communities.

every white man at least once in their lives has owned a black slave so they are all guilty and need to be punished.


just keep shaking your head my friend... seems like you have been right all along!! IM so sorry. It seems that WAR is your only option at this point. I suggest your organize your local militia and attack the next town over to begin your reign of terror in similar manner to the whites so that you may get your piece of the american pie!!

I am not doing this. You are actually forcing this by falsely depicting local communities as unavoidably segregated into black, white and Indian.

Again... it's clear to me that you don't understand economics. And I'm trying to remind myself that you're not used to seeing things this way and I need to try to be extra patient. You are very individualistic. But you fail to realize how much an individual is part of a group and can either be advantaged or disadvantaged by that identity and relationship. You don't want to "See color" because of a stereotype, that, seems to have a whole lot of "truth" to YOU and is about personal finance and people wanting free handouts. So you see color just fine. It's just that you connect color to stereotypes. But since stereotypes address a GROUP I cannot provide any defense or explanation to the stereotype without talking about groups. So that's why I'm talking about groups. I didn't start it.

And there's nothing false about it because after integration black people lost any sense of their own economy. I'm trying to show you guys what happened and why so you can understand the economic impacts of history and how it benefited Community A more than B. And the point of this is not as a complaint. You can't fix a problem YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND. It's like getting lost without trying to retrace your steps.

A good real world example of this is Baseball.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negro_league_baseball

please actually READ. Please read the sections titled "World War II" and "Integration Era" and, if you want, "End of the Negro leagues".

Did you read it?

I don't know what you take away from it. But here's my takeaway and I'll put it in the same Community terms I used before. Community B had their own league which did so well that it exploded into other leagues. And then they integrated. But integration itself, as a concept, wasn't the problem. The problem was execution. Could they not have brought whole teams in? Could they not have shared ownership? Because Community A's teams didn't necessarily want to integrate they were never planning to accept all the black players. And because Community B didn't have ownership the players got screwed and their own leagues lost out. Because naturally if you take the best players from Community B and have them play for Community A, then fans are going to support Community A's league, watch those games, etc. Without ownership (ownership = power) they couldn't control who got picked and who didn't. They couldn't play for one league and help the other. And those who didn't get picked had to pick themselves up by their bootstraps in a different industry.

If we look at the NFL and NBA today, the players are majority from Community B but only after the 2000's did you have any ownership by Community B. And so if a player wants to take a knee for social justice reforms he can be told to "find a country that works better for him".

There is a difference between just being a player and being an owner. Owners get to choose who their players are. Owners can make sure they are acting in the best interest of their players. Yes, Community B gets to have more players now. But at the cost of giving up ownership. And that's what happened in almost every industry when it came to integration. The value of that ownership means billions of dollars. They can afford to play players so much because they make so much more. And I'm not talking about how much one person makes. I'm talking about the money that goes into the owner's community and who gets to decide what to do with that money. You can say whatever you want about Oprah and Bill Cosby but they did a ton for the members of their community who wanted to be in the TV and movie industries; not simply in front of the camera, but behind it. Opportunities... when you have ownership you can create your own opportunities where they are lacking.

Again, I'm saying all this in response to statements like the following:

I am against economic or monetary solutions. They have never worked in the past and as far as I can tell will never work. Give a man a fish or teach him to fish? - Wes

Not knowing how to fish is the same as being ignorant.

So what I'm explaining to both of you is that it's not a matter of knowledge but OWNERSHIP. Ownership in black wall street was lost due to a race riot where Community A were the aggressors and attacked Community B in order to go after a man who wasn't proven guilty of anything.

lol hmm like all white people live in rich communities and white people don’t invest in other communities and white people stole everything they have and then justified it and white people only take care of other white people. These are things YOU have said, not I.

Your imagination is playing tricks on you. Don't tell me what I said. Quote me.

No its not racist but as soon as you hear the truth you resort to the race card don’t you. I and others tell you exactly how you can fix your issues in an honest and upfront manner and instead of saying those are good ideas you accuse us of attacking you because of your color.

LOL... who is "your"? No, you are very confused. I don't have personal finance issues. So when you say "your" who are you talking about? You're talking about an entire community, what's who. And because you don't listen you try to tell that community what their issues are instead of listening. Why? Because you think everything is about blame. I can literally sit here and say "I'm not blaming you" and you'll still get defensive. You both seem quick to say white people today aren't responsible for the past because they didn't do it. But instead of listening to the problems like adults all you seem to hear is "I'm poor and its your fault." And you get defensive. And then you make me defensive because you start blaming my community for its current socio-economic position. But that didn't just happen. That happened over the course of decades. But whenever its something bad, we're responsible. And we get blamed. And then you pretend not to see color and still evoke racial stereotypes popularized a long time ago.

And what exactly do you see? You are the one segregating us and you are the one whining when people tell you that you actually need to work to get somewhere in life no matter your color.

The reason that's bogus is because when I used the example of "Community B" is specifically and purposefully said EVERYONE was working. But your mind filtered out that bit of hypothetical information perhaps because it didn't agree. So how are you going to tell me, in a hypothesis where everyone is already working that people need to work to get somewhere in life. NO DUH! Tell me something I don't know. Because all these little side comments are aggravating.

I absolutely love this comment. No one EVER said anything about lack of skills or intelligence. YOU just said that. Victim mentality is all I see here. The poor black man, everyone hates us, we just need to go eat worms. Then after you "self pity" yourself then you actually provide the very solution to your problem and yet seem to want to ignore it. Why is that?

False. You are confused. You don't need to teach someone to fish who already knows how to fish. The implication of not knowing is ignorance. Just like you seem to be ignorant of what I was responding to. And you also don't seem to understand enough about economics to have understood why the "black wall street" scenario I mentioned would not work today. The solutions I believe WOULD work are anti-integration and requires us to do "group economics" like the Chinese and Indian communities. I believe this would work but it requires too many of us to discriminate how we spend our money and even doing that, we could do it in the service market but really in the product market without significant investment that the people who want to do this the most simply do not have. But if you look at what Akon is doing in Africa... stuff like that is perfect. It's just not enough and there's not enough of that here.

I am in no way defensive just frustrated at your willfull ignorance. And whats more, im not sure why you are on a Jedi board complaining about discrimination in the first place. I and others have given you the answer. Im sorry you cant see it. its clear the level of deep indoctrination you have displayed is getting in the way. Im not responsible for you and the white man is not responsible for the black mans well being. thats all there is to it. when you finally figure this out you will then begin to prosper. Until then good luck.

Im a willfully ignorant whitey who is not smart enough to even tell the difference between personal finances and economics.. (whatever that fancy term is!)

LOL... Because you take that as me talking about ALL WHITE PEOPLE? WOW. No, you are confused. I was absolutely, positively, 100%, only talking about you and Wes to a much lesser degree because I feel like he is approaching this conversation more honestly than you are. I think you just want to take advantage of the opportunity to say this stuff.

there is a buncha "people like me" all running around spreading propaganda to keep the black man down.

Yes... like YOU. Meaning YOU... FYXE. I know this because it may be news to you but that was not the first time I've heard someone say that. So I already know from personal experience that there are a bunch of people like FYXE running around repeating the same stereotypical stuff about black people. And when those people have power and those ideas are absorbed by people in powerful positions it creates BIAS.

And yes, that bias can effectively be to the detriment of that group.

White people own ABSOLUTELY EVERYTHING and wont give any to the black man. welfare must be a lie as well!

Apparently. You have to put words in my mouth and exaggerate in order to make a point. That's not what I said and no, "welfare" is not a gift to the black man. I pay taxes. I'm paying for welfare too; including all the whites who utilize social safety nets. Another social safety net? Social Security and Medicare. I'm paying for those too. It's not a gift. Unemployment? I pay for that too. So stop acting like its a gift from the white man.

black people can only get govt jobs because all private businesses will NEVER hire them.

Again... if you have to put words in my mouth then you're arguing against yourself. This is just as silly as saying ALL black people are on welfare. Of course, no one is saying that. So stop being silly.

all white communities keep out black people because they dont want them to know the secret of their success which is war, exploitation, theft and discrimination.

No, I asked you how Community B could achieve similar results since that's the measuring stick we are compared to. I know more white people who are financial trouble, than black people I know. But somehow a conversation that wasn't about money... at all... because it was about saying "I don't see color" but quickly it came down to the stereotype of black people being on welfare and wanting reparations. It was you who talked about "black privilege" which is utter nonsense. But this is what I have to deal with.

the black women have not become dependent on wellfare by having tons of fatherless children

This is what YOU are suggesting. My ex wife was a single mother of 4. No welfare. No child support. My current girlfriend raised 2 boys on her own. No welfare. No child support. But every time a racist gets defensive I have to hear about how our women are having tons of fatherless children as if they're all on welfare and as if this is a choice they are making. Many of these women are choosing not to be with their children's father, either because he isn't providing enough financial support or because of other personal issues that prevent them from staying. But these same critics pay NO attention to guys like me, who have stepped in and supported children who weren't our biological children. And that's because they only care about the half of the story that they care about.

whites keep raising prices every time the black man starts to get a foot hold

ridiculous. No one said anything like that. Wages are stagnant. Therefore if your wages don't keep up with inflation then you are less and less likely to be earning a "living wage". But the heart of all this exaggeration and twisting my words, and strawmen attacks is because you either can't or don't want to deal with the truth. You want to blame. And that's fine. That's just not the conversation I'm here for.

Fyxe, you're willfully ignorant or a provocateur. That has nothing to do with race, but everything to do with your behavior in forum from day one.

Some people aren't worth the effort. Just say that Fyxe is wrong and if a spectator thinks you're factually incorrect or being unfair, you can have a genuine conversation with them.

African Americans suffered institutionalized prejudice for quite some time, and the lingering cultural effects have a momentum of their own. I don't think anyone can find that wrong. Obviously, people who don't experience racism in a meaningful way won't have the same point of view. One of my good college friends was a brilliant Nigerian from a well off family, and it was always funny to watch people change how they treated him when they first talked with him.

A better conversation is to ask what parity looks like, how to get there, and if stymieing immigration from south America is part of that

Thank you, Rex. I REALLY appreciate that.

People in general may not agree with me 100% and that's fine. I don't expect them too. But there are people who have the maturity to discuss racial issues and who go about it honestly even if some of what they say sounds condescending. Then you have people who jump onto an existing conversation, see someone probing the same stereotypical angle that are basically the doctrines of the alt right, and then they want to twist the conversation into everything they don't like about your race.

And that's a far cry from "I don't see color". That's not cool and what Rex did is an excellent example of how you solve racism. A lot of people don't want to do it because they don't want that confrontation and I completely understand that. But when you do what Rex did, you're like an antibody interrupting the reproductive cycle of the virus. And not only does that have this positive effect, but for me seeing that... helps me as well. It puts me more at ease so that I can be less defensive and not feel ganged up on and like it is one side against the other. It eases tensions and gives more of a sense of equality because we're not judging correctness based on which group we are from but rather what's right or wrong. And as long as that sense of equality exists we can all take criticism or correction. If it doesn't exist our natural reaction will be to reject it. And so again... my sincerest thanks.

And, and this is simply my humble opinion, racism spreads because of ideas like these that basically go viral. One person thinking these things would never equate to discrimination. However, a lot of people thinking this stuff and having positions of power? Yes, that can create the right ecosystem for discrimination. And it's not just something that happened to African Americans. It also happened to Native Americans. It also happened to the Irish. It also happened to the Japanese.

People who hold these ideas often defend them somewhat like a religious belief. I was trying to explain, from an economics perspective, how community wealth creates an advantage that may be taken for granted or goes unnoticed compared to the experience of not having that community wealth. ALL (all races and ethnicities) of us living in America, benefit from the American economy. That is a fact. It is undeniable. That automatically helps everyone. So one can say "I picked myself up by the bootstraps" but it was easier to do in America than if the same person was in China or Bulgaria or Chile. And yes, there are cultural variables too. It would be easier if you were a member of the Jewish community, not because of anything bad but because the Torah commands a certain level of economic benefit within the Jewish community. Unfortunately, this also leads to some people chanting "Jews will not replace us". So there is actual anxiety over how well they're doing and questions about what practices they have which may be seen as discriminatory. But... the reality is that they have built and maintained their own economy within their community. Native American tribes have struggled trying to do this and now some are finally finding their feet with green energy technologies. But it is not easy to fight one's way back from discrimination. And even if you, as an individual, is good financially, that doesn't mean your community automatically benefits and can then turn around and use that benefit to create opportunities for others.

https://www.epi.org/publication/bp370-native-americans-jobs/

The dependency often thought of doesn't come from social safety nets. Ironically, the dependency comes from jobs. Just the opposite. Because through these jobs we help to make money for companies we don't own. And this supports the American economy in general but whenever a certain segment of the population "sees color" they criticize communities of color as a different socio-economic strata from oh "I just see an American". So we're all just Americans when its convenient but when we want to stereotype, people are all set with their opinions based on statistics that they already know or have heard about. And it's hard to defend yourself when a person is saying out of one side of their mouth, don't be defined by other people (referring to Caucasians) when they are trying to define "black people" according to these stereotypes. And this is why, the crowd reacted when Tomi said "I don't see color" and why Trevor Noah confronted her on that idea.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pUG1XKvzZM8

I agree with everything this youtuber said. The general idea is that if you're trying to say something positive you shouldn't use inflammatory language that works against people understanding your point. You shouldn't have to clarify what you mean by saying "I don't see color". That's why I've been saying it would be a better alternative to say "I don't discriminate". I don't know why that's so offensive.

Cognitive Group Bias in action right here folks! Get one person to agree with your position and instead of argueing the position, attack the opposite side. this is clearly against the rules - discuss issues not people... right REX?? a leader here engaging in such antics is disgusting.

Sorry, but Rex did nothing wrong. He wasn't agreeing with me. He was agreeing with a single point that he found to be valid. People are allowed to do that. But you are now acting like a victim as if someone was racially oppressing you because of things you inserted into that person's mouth. But you thought it was cute to try to play the "race card" in reverse because in your mind members of that race are always complaining. That's a stereotype that you brought to life here. You were actually the one complaining about black people. And you take it as an attack when someone tries to explain to you how black people got into that situation as a group; but as I said... that group dynamic and lack of wealth in the community should not be confused with personal finance. This is a mistake that a lot of people seem to make because it's harder for them to see the advantages inherently baked into the system.

And like I just said... we all have a certain level of advantage, being Americans. I don't take that for granted because my father didn't grow up in America. And it's the reason why so many people from around the world want to come here. But it is a mistake to think that everyone in America is equally benefited by the system. That doesn't mean I don't like you. That doesn't mean I blame you. That doesn't mean I want you to pay me reparations. I pay taxes just like you do. I pay for social safety nets just like you do. I pay for a large government just like you do. I don't necessarily like globalization but I realize that it is a byproduct of unfettered capitalism. So I'm looking for balance in all these things. That's what I want. I don't want to penalize you for being white. I just don't want to be penalized for being black. And even if you don't see those penalties that doesn't mean they don't exist. Just because one person says "I don't see color" doesn't mean that everyone has decided to agree. Just because you wouldn't go shoot up a black church doesn't mean that Dylan Roof wouldn't or that there are hundreds of others like him that want a race war.

So forgive me if being told "Get a job" sounds extremely condescending and racist. Forgive me if I don't like my race being implied that they are ignorant as far as how to make money. I've shown examples to the contrary, but they have one thing in common; the influence of racism. And then you have integration, which did not include "economic justice", which was Dr. King's regret and why he made the comment about integrating into a burning house.

“We have fought hard and long for integration, as I believe we should have, and I know that we will win. But I've come to believe we're integrating into a burning house.

I'm afraid that America may be losing what moral vision she may have had …. And I'm afraid that even as we integrate, we are walking into a place that does not understand that this nation needs to be deeply concerned with the plight of the poor and disenfranchised. Until we commit ourselves to ensuring that the underclass is given justice and opportunity, we will continue to perpetuate the anger and violence that tears at the soul of this nation.”

He was right. My concern for the poor extends to poor whites because wealth is constantly being redistributed to the top 2%. That's why I'm a Bernie supporter. But one of the problems is that when poor whites, long ago, were ideologically separated from poor blacks (and I wasn't there so I don't have real hard evidence for this) and, I believe, racism was engineered in the US, in part, to protect the assets of the rich. I believe they told poor whites something to the effect of "at least you're not black" and kinda gave them a superiority complex based on color which benefits the rich because they would not have to worry about them teaming up. And indeed, they didn't. Instead, a lot of poor whites got jobs in supervisory roles over slaves, slave catchers, etc. part of which evolved into police departments.

https://plsonline.eku.edu/insidelook/brief-history-slavery-and-origins-american-policing

The birth and development of the American police can be traced to a multitude of historical, legal and political-economic conditions. The institution of slavery and the control of minorities, however, were two of the more formidable historic features of American society shaping early policing. Slave patrols and Night Watches, which later became modern police departments, were both designed to control the behaviors of minorities. - Victor E. Kappeler, Ph.D.

And the fact is that I heard a small white kid out of his own mouth say to my step son "white people are better". So even though I do see progress that makes me proud to be an American. And even though individually, I'm perfectly happy with my income even though I'm still a little underpaid and the reason I was told I couldn't get the salary I was asking for was because it would "hurt morale" even though I was asking for basically entry level money for the average person in my position... I still believe we have to fight racism in order to limit the damage done to future generations. That kid who said that felt comfortable saying it around his father. One day he's just not going to say it but he could still make decisions that affect my children. So although it may not be a concern for you at all, It is a concern for me. I see racism being reinvigorated right now and us miscommunicating about "Seeing color" doesn't help the cause.

well this went nowhere fast didnt it zealot. Why do you think this is? where was the breakdown here, and by that I mean the breakdown in the issue discussion. please dont resort to personal attack in your reply or it will be an end of all discussion.