"I'm A Man of Principle"

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24 Jan 2020 02:58 - 24 Jan 2020 02:59 #348749 by Proteus
Do you consider yourself one of these types?

What does it mean to be a "man of principle" (or woman, etc, of course)?

Is it all its cracked up to be?

If a situation goes south in which bothers you, but needs (and has) a solution, to move past, are you the type to focus on the principle of the matter, or do you put more focus on solving it?

More importantly to me, how does one talk someone down who considers themselves a "man of principle" to keep a situation reasonable when they are angry?

It seems that I know that I know.
What I would like to see is the 'I' that knows me when I know that I know that I know.
- Alan Watts
Last edit: 24 Jan 2020 02:59 by Proteus.
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24 Jan 2020 06:31 #348759 by ghosty
Replied by ghosty on topic "I'm A Man of Principle"
this sounds like a "the ends or the means" question to me.
its really a paradox, i think.
there is no correct answer.
ergo, its a silly question.
i am not being nasty, just me lol. you are a knight, you should know these things! but you may be teaching me as well...so again, its chicken vs. egg question.
what matters?
the chicken and the egg are here. so, does which came first matter?
i would say no.
i would say as to your specific question, if anything goes south we try to save it, or keep it as north as we can.
so i would focus on solving it.
if you do that, you will have to also address the principle of the matter.
it sounds easy, and its not pat...but i tried to answer.
as to your last part, you cannot talk anyone down anymore than you can talk someone up.
as i have said elsewhere, when you are down, its a long way up. when you are up, its a long way down.
you cannot choose someone else's path - you can only offer alternatives.
yes, i am am man of principle. but i pride myself on being fair and actually hearing.
i think i do well at this, but i could be wrong. again i could be right.
in end, you have to follow YOUR path, as the other party will do, regardless of what you say or do.
you can offer alternatives. you can lead a horse to water....
something i do, may or may not work for you, i try to think INSIDE the box.
i often find that my box is far bigger than i ever knew.
as to others, that is their own path, and you as a Knight know this, you cannot choose ones path for him. he alone must choose.

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24 Jan 2020 07:04 #348760 by JamesSand
Replied by JamesSand on topic "I'm A Man of Principle"
I tend to find that people rarely matter, as individuals, and if you find someone overly convinced that they, or their principles, are in some way of significance, you can often simply not deal with them at all and find an alternate route to whatever outcome you desire.

Let folks die as the kings of their weird, lonely, hills if they must.
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24 Jan 2020 07:12 #348761 by Adder
Replied by Adder on topic "I'm A Man of Principle"
Distinction, necessity, and proportionality? I'd assume it was more a clash of ones principles forced by circumstances, so measured pragmatism that actively referenced ones principles might be the way to go.

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24 Jan 2020 07:21 #348765 by ghosty
Replied by ghosty on topic "I'm A Man of Principle"
bah, lets get down to it lol. stop the psychobabble!
geesh! and i wanna be a knight lol.
principle is the matter and the matter is the principle.
easy.
as to JamesSand - your own advice should be heeded by yourself.
i am not being bitter or better, you just sound a lot like what you dislike based upon your posts.
as though, you hate martyrs, so you will become one.
thats a pariah, i believe.
either way, its only words.

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24 Jan 2020 07:42 #348769 by JamesSand
Replied by JamesSand on topic "I'm A Man of Principle"

as to JamesSand - your own advice should be heeded by yourself.
i am not being bitter or better, you just sound a lot like what you dislike based upon your posts.
as though, you hate martyrs, so you will become one.
thats a pariah, i believe.
either way, its only words.


I doubt even my dog will miss me, I run no risk of being a martyr - that need not necessarily mean I need be humble.
I can be as brash as I like, and in turn, all others are invited to sidestep me and progress with their own goals.

As you so delightfully arrive at the conclusion - it is only words ;)

To circle back to the subject at hands - I have occasionally professed to stand on a principle (fairness is a popular one) - usually when I can no longer think of good options to advance the plot in my favour.

I wonder if that's all other people are doing, or perhaps they truly are principled people? If only I had one of those fancy machines that tells me what is happening in people's brains when they respond to things.....
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24 Jan 2020 07:53 #348770 by Rex
Replied by Rex on topic "I'm A Man of Principle"
Being a principled person means following the principles you express. Sure you might say you believe in cruelty free emissions, but if that's prioritized behind a hundred other things, that's where you slide into "unprincipled" territory.
Generally principled is also in relation to whatever social morays are relevant

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24 Jan 2020 10:37 #348772 by Gisteron
Replied by Gisteron on topic "I'm A Man of Principle"
Taking a quick think on the subject, I think my first reaction is that having or not having principles is essentially a matter of weighing the means against the ends. Someone who has principles is concerned with acting morally (by which ever metric) as assessed in the now. While they may feel discontent over the outcomes, they perceive them as justified nonetheless, because they are seen as outcomes of acceptable, or just, or even virtuous procedures.
Someone without principle, on the other hand, is concerned with the moral values of outcomes. Rather than justify the outcomes through the justness of the actions that lead to them, they would justify procedures based on the consequences they ultimately (or at least until any given current time) yielded, and any principles they purport to hold to they are happy to violate at any time when they expect the consequences of doing so to be morally preferable.

It should be noted that by this layout neither is necessarily morally superior to the other, and neither needs be generally whimsical. By some other definition, a concern with the consequences might well itself be called a "principle" by which entire ethical theories can be and have been constructed. But normally, colloquially, when we speak of a "person of principle" we tend to mean someone to who values the journey above the destination more than someone of whom we'd say that they are "unprincipled".

For example, someone who believes in the principle of democracy understands that their personal political opinions will likely not be fully realized by whom ever they elect to govern over them. They understand that a democratically run society is a society of compromize and mild discomfort for a majority of its participants, and they accept that and pursue change through the democratic means they believe are the righteous path. Fellow citizens (disregarding other principles that might inform differentiation) that hold opposing political views are seen as equally legitimate contributors to the process who are perhaps poorly informed and who might join one's own side in the course of a political discussion.
On the other hand, someone who believes in the principle of aristocracy (here in the literal Greek sense of "reign of the best") picture a society run by someone objectively best suited as judged through their own moral framework. They perceive questions about the definition of what constitutes a morally correct government as matters of fact, not of opinion, and they find the establishment of that government, the achievement of the righteous goal, to be a greater good that justifies what ever means it is pursued by. To them, someone who holds opposing political views is an opponent of goodness itself, and for the greater good such opinions must be stopped from spreading through society and disregarded in political decision-making.

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24 Jan 2020 21:53 #348785 by JamesSand
Replied by JamesSand on topic "I'm A Man of Principle"
I started a fight today based on principle.

Why?

Because I had not the means to achieve my desired ends - far out of reach indeed.

But, what I could do, was make one person in the world miserable based on my values - and so I strode into battle, laying about with my steel, so that though there was no possible victory, at least I would have stood for something.

It was cathartic, if futile.

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25 Jan 2020 03:10 #348796 by Erinis
Replied by Erinis on topic "I'm A Man of Principle"
From Buddhist standpoint I would say that is better to have flexible mind,
rather then to be a "man of principle."

When things go south, I usually give much more emphasis on principle of matter rather then solving it.
I know that´s in contradiction what I said above. But even if we as a human know what is good we act differently right ((:

In case of "principle of matter" there is higher probability to escalation of arguments and aggression. The way
to bit reduce is usage of neutral words, like: "what is your perspective?" "What exactly are you against?", "I see/feel it ...this way"

The second option "trying to find solution" is more way of compassion, balance, etc.. , I would say it´s bit a way of receding,
because the solution should be point which is compromise for both person.

- Phoenix die and transform into something new -
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