Why I stopped and why I probably will not continue

I think your critique is pretty spot on Corvan.

I share your dislike of the role play elements. I'm not that fussed about the quotes though.

I also think Proteus has a solid point, with regards to learning what we do/don't care about/want etc.

I wish you all the best.

MTFBWY

Why see it as criticism?

Theres nothing wrong with his views on the Force, and its completely in line with what we say it is.

Not needing rank is something i agree with. Councillor is my office among others, my rank is member and i have no interest in changing that, here or elsewhere. Its no surprise others feel the same way.

I agree with his opinion on the star wars references, but its not my business to prevent others from making those references.

The IP is a difficult question. I had started work on a revised one years back which went that direction but I resigned before completing it, and the 'lesson 0' people turned up with ugly fixes instead. The IP however has to be accessible and informative to people with little to no experience in our variety of philosophy. A 'write a paper, find your own sources' IP does not cut it.


All I see is someone who realises they do not need a website or place within an order to be Jedi, which is absolutely correct.

i agree with most of what has been stated here, in this thread.
and your last sentence, ren, is the best of them all.
having said that, i do take exception with your assertion that a" "write a paper, find your own sources" does not cut it.""
i believe that it does in fact cut it.
else, one is just regurgitating what is fed to them, instead of being forced to find their own sources as well as their own voice. which really, isnt this what its all about?
follow YOUR path, and to be able to do that, one needs to not be indoctrinated.
anyway, i agree with most that i have seen here. MOST.
this includes you, councillor.
i shall begin IP soon myself. with dread actually, for the reasons i just stated.
it makes me feel caged. i would love to write my own papers with my own sources.
again, as i babble on, it is made clear that i can merely write that i do not like the whole method - i am free to read pages, tear them out of the book, or write my own.
and its clearly stated that it is not graded. its just to see what is going on in our minds.
i have no objection to that.
anyway...my best to you and to all.

Ghosty,

The IP is what you make of it. While there is structure to the lessons, you are free to bring in your own sources - I would say you are encouraged to. In fact, some of the later parts essentially require you to search outside the temple for answers.

Some people write long and eloquent reflection essays with plenty of sources. Others regurgitate what is in front of them. While I have an obvious bias towards the former, people are ultimately free to complete the IP in the way that best fits their learning style.

So if you start the IP soon, please don’t do so with dread. It should be a fun time to explore religion and philosophy in your life. If you don’t jive with it, you are always free to respectfully quit as Corvan did.

WHO CARES ABOUT QUITTERS

I do - I used to be one. I still am.

One does not have to be at a or the temple in order to practice. There's plenty of other places, plenty of material online, plenty of books, plenty of ways to do it. I only have time to check in every few weeks I spend majority of my weeks between three ambulance services, though I'm starting to dial that back a bit now that more paramedics are starting to come out of classes and were are not in so much of a shortage as we used to be around where I am.

Carlos.Martinez3 wrote: I do - I used to be one. I still am.

You are a quitter? As a pastor, on in a position of authority here, is that really an image you want to show?

Oh cigarettes? Lol

Fyxe wrote:

You are a quitter? As a pastor, on in a position of authority here, is that really an image you want to show?

We’re all quitters in one form or another. Carlos is being honest and forthcoming about a human flaw that we all have in common. That is a leadership quality I would like to see in more people.

Fyxe wrote:
You are a quitter? As a pastor, on in a position of authority here, is that really an image you want to show?

Are you ten years old or do you simply lack the self awareness to understand that you are at least just as flawed as everyone else? I have nothing personal against you - in fact, i hope we can become friends, in time - but your self-presentation here has been terrible so far; your inability to recognize your own shortcomings or and your obstinate refusal to consider the feedback you receive leaves you in no position to be critical of other people.

This reminds me of a story I was told about rabbit. Rabbit wanted to be wise and went to ask for more wisdom. During the process of request he was told to do these things first and I’ll give it to ya. Each time he did things three times before he accomplished each task. At the end of I remember three, he finally cashed in and said something like -I’ve done what ya asked where’s my wisdom- To which he was told - you’ve done these tasks which means each request you asked you found during these tasks. You don’t need me.

I’m paraphrasing
http://www.mikelockett.com/media-library/documents/Chinese_Stories/How_Rabbit_Got_Wisdom_in_Mandarin.pdf

Not the story I was told face to face but pretty close.

Some times there are clear cut yes and no’s and there’s the try factor. Some times it takes me more than 3 times to learn something. This last year alone, I have seen many people leave and some come back. Give n take - ebb n flow.- type of thing some times for me.

Learning looks different for many other people from where I sit. I’m not like others, but then again none of us really are.

Keep seeking - you will find - what ? Ya never know - might be what you were looking for might not but your gunna find something with the “seek” on.
May the Force continue to be with us all.

Quitting is not a negative thing. Not doing is doing, fishing for another man doesnt teach him, etc. Many of the all time favourite quotes are about quitting.

OB1Shinobi wrote:

Fyxe wrote:
You are a quitter? As a pastor, on in a position of authority here, is that really an image you want to show?

Are you ten years old or do you simply lack the self awareness to understand that you are at least just as flawed as everyone else? I have nothing personal against you - in fact, i hope we can become friends, in time - but your self-presentation here has been terrible so far; your inability to recognize your own shortcomings or and your obstinate refusal to consider the feedback you receive leaves you in no position to be critical of other people.

If a leader walked up to me and told me he was a quitter I would not follow them. Would that not be strange? Although upon further consideration I realized that quitting is not always a bad thing, so I commented about quitting smoking, right? Although as a leader I would not use negative words. Instead I would say I have begun a new healthier lifestyle. It's better to describe things by what we do, not what we dont do.

My question was not about my shortcomings so I'm confused as to why you even bring that up. Are you seriously trying to suggest my simple question for clarification set you off on this rant? Talking about shortcoming, lol worry about your own overly reactionary mentalness.

Fyxe wrote: If a leader walked up to me and told me he was a quitter I would not follow them. Would that not be strange?

I would be more peeved by a leader trying to convince me that he is perfect, than one who openly acknowledges he is as flawed as any other person, which I believe was the spirit of Carlos' post.

Manu wrote:

Fyxe wrote: If a leader walked up to me and told me he was a quitter I would not follow them. Would that not be strange?

I would be more peeved by a leader trying to convince me that he is perfect, than one who openly acknowledges he is as flawed as any other person, which I believe was the spirit of Carlos' post.

I believe that was the spirit as well. It was also my spirit. I posted my first reaction to his sentence. And then I put in my other, second reaction. However I still would never describe myself as a quitter. And just because I wouldn't do that also doesnt mean i just declaired myself perfect. A rejection of a bad trait does not automatically assert the opposite.

I guess quitting just means leaving something that is enduring in some regard, before its 'completed' or finished being relevant to why it was participated in. Making it apt for addictions which by their nature drive continuation. An addict does not use/elicit a substance/effect, rather the substance/effect is using/eliciting the addict.

Not a bad thing in itself to quit, but it depends on what your quitting, why, and whats its impacts are. Its a balance of those things IMO, and for some things no-one else can be the judge of it except for the person themselves. What others think, care less of... said Yoda one night out drinking.

will you teach me?
most of this "stuff" is just confusing.
i am quite intelligent. and i do recognize that its kinda silly.
asking questions simply to ask them is meaningless.
this is how i see it.
asking a question should not be about contradictons.
the force is not a transistor, it is not about RFI.
i dunno. ive said to much already.
ps : i ignored my auto correct.

i dont know....
i havent decided yet. my gut says, i dont fit here.
i dont want to quit, i just have this sense that i do not fit her.
i have always appreciated you.
not sucking up, just facts.
liked your suggestion about 1 percent.
and nobody else even got my point.
and really, i wasnt even saying that, but yea. 15 minutes of one day...
what could be done with that?
i think that rocked.
all i get is question question questjon to my own questions.
here is difference: i will never offer a problem without a solution.
if the jedi way is just to go "i dont know" then its not for me.
i seek truth.
i dunno how else to put it.
i really like it here, yet, have a very distinct sense of i dont belong.
not in a bad way. i am either farther ahead, or farther behind?
either way, its not "HERE."
does that make sense?

i agree with this.

discord is not good. there are plenty of places for that.