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Next Saturday Hangout July 18, 2020 17hrs GMT to 19hrs GMT in Discord (11 Jul 2020)

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Could Human Networking eventually replace the need for government?

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16 Jan 2020 16:48 #348462 by ZealotX

Fyxe wrote:

ZealotX wrote:

Fyxe wrote:

ZealotX wrote:

Fyxe wrote: I dont see any checks and balances. All I see if the end of human rights and freedom.


how is voting not a check and balance?



Because its majority (mob) rule without representation of the minority opinion. Its might makes right without regard for human rights.


how is the minority currently represented?



Through our representatives and senators in congress and in the electoral college. The US is not a democracy, it is a representative republic.



all senators and reps are elected by a majority vote. So how exactly does that represent the minority??

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16 Jan 2020 16:56 #348463 by Fyxe
we have representation by state and by population. we have 100 senators, 2 per state no matter the population, we have 435 representatives that represent districts of population as well. They are not concerned with a state but a section of population. senators and representatives are in different houses of congress and laws met must meet approval of both and a checks and balance to them is the executive branch, the president elected by electoral college. He can veto what they do. that is a rebublic functions.

Where ever you go, there you are. Make the best of it.

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16 Jan 2020 22:25 #348467 by ZealotX

Fyxe wrote: we have representation by state and by population. we have 100 senators, 2 per state no matter the population, we have 435 representatives that represent districts of population as well. They are not concerned with a state but a section of population. senators and representatives are in different houses of congress and laws met must meet approval of both and a checks and balance to them is the executive branch, the president elected by electoral college. He can veto what they do. that is a rebublic functions.


how is that different from the jurisdictions I was talking about? I'm a minority voter in my Ohio district. My vote doesn't usually have a chance of deciding who wins the white house. That's because the state is typically a red state and a mostly white state. And that's fine.

If we didn't have representatives and we all voted on whatever issue we wanted in our local jurisdiction it would not affect someone else's jurisdiction. In other words, voters in Dayton, OH would be voting for issues affecting Dayton Ohio and maybe even a smaller jurisdiction than that. A jurisdiction could be like a precinct or a large suburb.

All of the representation we currently have is good. I love the constitution, bill of rights, America in general. This isn't an Capitalistic America vs Social/Commu/Etc/ims. This is simply a thought experiment about whether technology could be used in a way that COULD POSSIBLY make the way we currently do things obsolete. Just like how we all used to have to wait in long lines to renew drivers licenses and a lot of that stuff you can now do online. But what if your license was on your phone and you could simply selfie your drivers license photo? I'm not saying there are security issues that could arise (someone could take someone else's pic as their license photo for example) but the point in general is about how technology could change things and possibly make things better and easier.

It is because we couldn't connect to each other that we needed proxies. And those proxies had to meet in washington, and then you have an ellectoral college and all these other things that come out of this one central problem. The problem is that we couldn't represent OURSELVES. Now, we can. And yes, we may not be all the way there with cyber warfare and such, but with greater end to end encryption its really not even so much our systems now that are the biggest security risk. It's us. It's social hacking. But all of the political drama and dirt on this candidate or that... all of that could be obsolete if we could simply represent ourselves.

And I'm just not understanding why self representation is some kind of authoritarian nightmare to you. Especially since it would be based on jurisdiction so it would take into account the experiences and lifestyle of the people who actually live, work, and play there. People in NY city would be making decisions for people in NY city. People in Iowa would be making decisions for people in Iowa. So a majority in one part of the US wouldn't be deciding for a majority in another part of the country which may be a minority at the state or federal levels.

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16 Jan 2020 22:58 #348468 by Fyxe
Because we are a republic not a democracy. We abide by a system of laws not one of majority rule.
The founding fathers were very specific in setting this up this way. It was not because we were not connected, it was because they didnt want a tyranny of the people.



Where ever you go, there you are. Make the best of it.

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17 Jan 2020 00:34 #348469 by Adder
Also the time between voting allows minority platforms to be articulated out and considered. So while an app system could have long periods to do the same thing, I tend to think it would defeat the point of the app in streamlining democratic action so more issues could be actioned. Perhaps build it, run some real life models, and look for problems if you think it's a good idea.... its how ppl get rich, have an idea - work the idea. Talking about a good idea will just invite someone to steal the idea.... unless it's not a good idea!

Knight ~ introverted extropian, mechatronic neurothealogizing, technogaian buddhist. Likes integration, visualization, elucidation and transformation.
Jou ~ Deg ~ Vlo ~ Sem ~ Mod ~ Med ~ Dis
TM: Grand Master Mark Anjuu

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17 Jan 2020 03:25 #348472 by JamesSand

Sorry, not buying it.


You're not buying that I have a finite amount of resources (time, spoons) and that they are already mostly allocated to certain things, some of which are personally beneficial, some of which are beneficial to the whole, and that I didn't "sign up" to be a full time personal representative as well?

Well, that's my position, and I guess under your system of everyone-counts, it is therefore valid.

If enough people "don't buy it" am I simply discounted? or does your system really only benefit the independently wealthy (or unemployed?) who have the time and wherewithal to manipulate the "market"

Anyway, that's getting away from the main thrust I think - I'm still not sure that open source decision making and responsibility can keep food on tables and roofs over heads, which is sort of the minimum we want from government oversight

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17 Jan 2020 06:44 #348474 by Adder
Voting wouldn't be mandatory I presume, but without a robust notification and scheduling platform then it will just create a lot of bad decisions, creating a lot of conflict, until all effected are dragged into some final vote which finally might be representative of the stakeholders. Seems a bit more like dramacity then democracy. Actually, reminds me of a body corporate! I hate body corporates :D

Knight ~ introverted extropian, mechatronic neurothealogizing, technogaian buddhist. Likes integration, visualization, elucidation and transformation.
Jou ~ Deg ~ Vlo ~ Sem ~ Mod ~ Med ~ Dis
TM: Grand Master Mark Anjuu

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