Jedi and Politics?

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06 Nov 2019 13:16 #345260 by Alethea Thompson
Replied by Alethea Thompson on topic Jedi and Politics?
The only official political stance the church takes is "No Capital Punishment". Other than that, see everyone above. :)

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06 Nov 2019 13:49 - 06 Nov 2019 13:53 #345263 by Carlos.Martinez3
Replied by Carlos.Martinez3 on topic Jedi and Politics?
Truthfully there isn’t a actual list but there are a few organizations that we(as the Temple, as a whole) just CAN’T support. That’s just natural. In the real world - some Forces collide, some are opposite. Beginning to define those lines is always fun. For the most part we don’t politic as a Tempe or at least try not to - not the intention of a place like this- but we encourage the individual to find their own “tic” and politic where they can be effective to their own community. What better way to think of things that each modern day Jeddist serving their very own community- CAN make a difference what a concept! Politics CAN be a great way to practice this very thing or not. Party’s up to you !

It does me good to know there are a Jeddist who are becoming the change in their life’s in more than just one way and in turn -leading others to those very freedoms for others. Application will vary from different application to application but what a concept hu? Maybe I’m alone - maybe not.
Personally - dude -we need more modern day Jeddist in the world as dads and moms and kids and doctors and lawyers workers bosses leaders and followers - period. But that’s me... changing the world and my own world - one day at a time.


Mind blown sound !
( kphew!)
[ hand exploded on top of my head - up!]

Jedi in the real world

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Last edit: 06 Nov 2019 13:53 by Carlos.Martinez3.

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06 Nov 2019 15:37 - 06 Nov 2019 15:45 #345266 by OB1Shinobi
Replied by OB1Shinobi on topic Jedi and Politics?
“Multivariate analysis indicates that economic elites and organized groups representing business interests have substantial independent impacts on U.S. government policy, while average citizens and mass-based interest groups have little or no independent influence.”
Quoted from: Testing Theories of American Politics: Elites, Interest Groups, and Average Citizens
www.cambridge.org/core/journals/perspect...D0A304D4893B382B992B

The Justice Democrats “....highest priority is to effectively eliminate the role of money and conflicts of interests in politics. As such, any candidate running with Justice Democrats must pledge to refuse any donations from billionaires or corporations.”
Justice Democrats have “....a stated goal of reforming the Democratic Party by running "a unified campaign to replace every corporate-backed member of Congress" and rebuilding the Democratic Party "from scratch" starting in the 2018 congressional midterm elections.”
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Justice_Democrats

“As long as you feel that you are the most important thing in the world you cannot really appreciate the world around you. You are like a horse with blinders, all you see is yourself apart from everything else.”
-Don Juan Matus
Last edit: 06 Nov 2019 15:45 by OB1Shinobi.
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06 Nov 2019 16:02 - 06 Nov 2019 17:23 #345268 by OB1Shinobi
Replied by OB1Shinobi on topic Jedi and Politics?

Omhu Cuspor wrote: My overall take on things is that humanity is facing four pivotal issues that will determine the quality of our future - climate change, the ever-growing wealth gap, the rapid adoption of artificial intelligence, and the growing global popularity of at least some tenets of fascism. How we respond to these issues, even whether we respond to them, is imo pivotal to determining whether or not we will thrive.


I agree the first three of those are critical issues. I dont mind calling fascism a growing problem but i have to say a few things in response. Ive seen people being called fascists because they voted for Trump, or because they believe we should have immigration laws and enforce them. Or for just being a traditional conservative. These are all misuses of the term.
Right wing extremists have done much more in the way of terroristic violence in recent decades but a google search on the death tolls of communist regimes will provide ample evidence that radical left wing ideology is just as dangerous as radical right ideology.
It looks to me like the extremists on both the left and the right are pushing for their own versions of increased authoritarianism. I see people on both the left and the right becoming more radicalized and i think calling out only one side of it is missing an important piece of the issue.

“As long as you feel that you are the most important thing in the world you cannot really appreciate the world around you. You are like a horse with blinders, all you see is yourself apart from everything else.”
-Don Juan Matus
Last edit: 06 Nov 2019 17:23 by OB1Shinobi.
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06 Nov 2019 22:41 #345280 by ZealotX
Replied by ZealotX on topic Jedi and Politics?
I'm a progressive "Justice Democrat" in ideology. I'm also pragmatic.

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Justice_Democrats

I think healthy political debates are absolutely great. I wish we had more as I believe the exercise of talking about and debating issues creates a higher tendency to be better informed about those issues, whether you are a participant in the debate or just following along.

Politics is how we engage with each other, as communities, and as nations. So if there are issues important to us as Jedi or to us as individuals, its hard to argue against being political. Do we have to subscribe to a party? No. Do we have to play party politics and be partisan? No. Plenty of groups basically lobby politicians to get their way and when they (and their money) outnumbers those of us who want something different, well then we are simply much more likely to lose.

Being a Jedi doesn't mean accepting or being cool with such loses. After all, Jedi fought against the Empire instead of sitting on the sidelines. Jedi (canon) fought for the republic and for democracy. How can WE fight for democracy if we're silent about issues confronting our democracy? How can we do anything or accomplish anything like those (canon) Jedi without at least expressing an opinion or two in the public space? Politics is about influence. Sometimes we get so caught up in the religious stuff that we turn a blind eye to the stuff that people often turn to religions to cope with.
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08 Nov 2019 06:21 #345315 by Malicious
Replied by Malicious on topic Jedi and Politics?
Personally I think in politics concerning totjo as a whole we shouldn't dwell to deep on it besides on human rights , no death penalty , and defending democracy . On political sides of voting and who is best fit for an office so to speak , I think we have a right to believe and vote for who is best fit in our own opinion for said office and think this shouldn't really be discussed here . The reason why is because some people might not agree with you and this will start a conflict so to speak as well as cause you and other people to think differently of each other or make assumptions of that person . Politics is a nasty business and that's why the US government separated church/religion from politics in the first place . Personally I don't want to say who I am going to vote for president because people will look and think differently of me or even make assumptions that may not be true .

=_= Malicious (+_+)
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08 Nov 2019 13:52 #345319 by ZealotX
Replied by ZealotX on topic Jedi and Politics?

Malicious wrote: Personally I think in politics concerning totjo as a whole we shouldn't dwell to deep on it besides on human rights , no death penalty , and defending democracy . On political sides of voting and who is best fit for an office so to speak , I think we have a right to believe and vote for who is best fit in our own opinion for said office and think this shouldn't really be discussed here . The reason why is because some people might not agree with you and this will start a conflict so to speak as well as cause you and other people to think differently of each other or make assumptions of that person . Politics is a nasty business and that's why the US government separated church/religion from politics in the first place . Personally I don't want to say who I am going to vote for president because people will look and think differently of me or even make assumptions that may not be true .


Malicious, I value your opinion and want to hear more from you which is why I'm about to passionately disagree with you. But I hope to do it in a way that you come away feeling better and not worse.

The reality is I DON'T WANT EVERYONE TO AGREE WITH ME.

lol, while this may seem counter-intuitive to some, if everyone agrees then I would be preaching to the choir. What's the point in that? If we all agree, then what? We all sit around complimenting each other braiding each other's hair? No, this is why forums exist in the first place; to share ideas. If we all have the same idea already then we might as well say nothing.

I value honest opinions. We're disagreeing right now but do I think less of you? No, I wouldn't know anything about you if we hadn't stated an opinion that someone could disagree with. What you just said, I disagree with, but you were honest and expressed yourself well. When I reply, I don't do so for the purpose of being liked but rather understood. I think being understood is better than being liked. If people don't understand you then what is it that they like anyway? How can they really truly like you if they don't know anything real about you.

I think the problem comes in when people don't know how to disagree. But that should NOT be an issue for Jedi in training. My personal goal is to help raise the level of discourse and make people just like you feel more free to express their minds without the fear of being attacked, belittled, etc. Because honestly, I believe in freedom of speech broadly but I think we can do better to use our speech to uplift each other, according to our values. The people who tear each other down are also tearing down our sense of community, but we (in general) seem so desperate to have them that we tolerate their destruction while at the same time picking and choosing who to ban based on popularity. And its HONEST posts like yours that undress and expose the hidden dangers of this kind of tolerance. At some point we have to draw a line in the sand and say what is and is not acceptable for a Jedi.

And all that to say, we miss out on a lot of good disagreements because we (in general, not you personally) are too afraid of disagreement. I disagree with you but I respect you. I respect you more because you spoke your mind honestly. Someone else didn't say anything for the exact reason you just said. And that makes me sad. Be yourself. Be bold. Be courageous. Be the hero. So what if someone out there on the internet, hundreds or thousands of miles away, doesn't agree with something you said. So what? Is that really hurting you? What power do they have over you to keep you from talking? And I'm talking, not just to you, but to EVERYONE-because...

If we cannot talk, even among ourselves, about difficult issues that affect the world... then how the $#&@ are we supposed to be a positive effect on the rest of the world? And if we're not even trying to be that... then again... what's the point?

The point of the Hero's journey, like Luke Skywalker, is show you, by example, what YOU can accomplish if you have courage. There are people out there who think climate change is a hoax. How are you going to save the planet if you're afraid of how those people will look at you? Or what they might say about you? The only difference between us is that I debate all the time (love it) and so I already know that there are people on the other side of an argument who ALREADY have a low opinion of me because they're small minded. But it's not about ME. It's about the issue at the center of the debate because it concerns many people. If it was a personal issue then yes, I might care what you think about me (but not really because I have a high enough opinion about myself), but if it's not then what you think about me is altogether IRRELEVANT and if I have to I'll let you know.

Conflict isn't always a bad thing. There is an ongoing conflict between ideas all the time and you're either fighting or sitting on the sidelines.

If someone loves Trump, I want to understand why. I want to understand what he's doing that's so great for America. Because to me, he's like a dumb version of the Sith Emperor. And I'd love for someone to try and change my mind. We may have a passionate conversation about it, because he inspires extremes, but I see much to be gained through the sharing of ideas and conflict creates the motivation... the driving force... to share opposing ideas. So even though I disagree, I LOVE what you said. I just wish you weren't afraid to say more. I wish everyone would shed their fear of "public speaking". Because once you get passed that fear you're free. It's not me holding your tongue hostage. It's your fear. And if you think fear is going to stop you at public speaking, your wrong. Fear will stop you from doing a lot of positive things that can change your life and lives of others for the better. I saw a youtube video this week.... this young guy was giving a speech about a system to clean plastic from rivers before it makes it into the ocean. My respect level for him went from "I don't know you" to a 9. Yes, if I don't know you then you're aren't even on the board. Like... you're on team riding the bench. You might be a star player but how would I know? And more importantly... how would YOU know?

You can do great things. If no one ever told you that, I'm telling you that. But step one is "just do it". Conquer your fear and just do it. No one else is stopping you.
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08 Nov 2019 18:48 - 08 Nov 2019 18:52 #345326 by Skryym
Replied by Skryym on topic Jedi and Politics?
hmmm... it sounds like “how to disagree” should be an important part of the IP...

Rex made a point a while ago that I want to reiterate: I (as an American) know so little about my government and the individual platforms of specific candidates that I it would be irresponsible and inappropriate for me to cast a vote, and it SCARES me that thousands in the same boat as me exercise their voting right with little or no awareness of the candidates they are voting for. I only believe democracy has value when supported by an informed and active populace.

So to an extent I agree within ZealotX. I still believe Jedi can remain apolitical, but should still cultivate a knowledge of national and international politics, and encourage open and honest debate in their communities. I’m calling myself out on this one, because I have neither the knowledge of politics or the courage to share my opinions with my peers

They being said, I tend to vote on environmental platforms, because those are issues I understand as a rural citizens, a forestry student, and a public servant in the natural resource sector. But I still recognize that my education creates a bias and my vote still carries weight on economic and social platforms that I don’t fully understand.

EDIT: I also want to say that I hadn’t heard of “Justice Democrats” until this thread and I want to thank the several of you that mentioned it for enlightening me on the principles behind them. Any party that places principle before platform holds a degree of respect in my eyes, especially with an issue that has been SO relevant in the last handful of elections. Cheers

There is no bad weather, only bad attitudes and bad attire. - Gandalf the Grey

Skryym's Novice Journal | Meditation Journal
Last edit: 08 Nov 2019 18:52 by Skryym.
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08 Nov 2019 21:07 #345331 by ZealotX
Replied by ZealotX on topic Jedi and Politics?

Skryym wrote: They being said, I tend to vote on environmental platforms, because those are issues I understand as a rural citizens, a forestry student, and a public servant in the natural resource sector. But I still recognize that my education creates a bias and my vote still carries weight on economic and social platforms that I don’t fully understand.


I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with you in a similar vein as my last post. I think you underestimate your value in any political discussion. An informed electorate is indeed important. However, no one is saying that everyone has to be equally or well informed on every single issue. I'm not a doctor but I've had this body for 40 years. I think I know a little something about it. I know enough about most things to have a conversation about most things. But its because I have conversations about most things that I keep adding to my knowledge of each subject.

Here's what I want to recommend for you. And I'm saying this to you personally. Most times I try to speak in general terms because I mostly engage with ideas, not people. And that's really 101 when it comes to having productive debates.

You know a lot more than I do about forestry and agriculture. That's extremely valuable! There is nothing wrong with being a "single issue voter". In fact, politicians will usually survey you asking which areas of policy are a bigger concern for you. This is important because politicians are typically flexible because they understand that they're not representing themselves alone. They are instead representing their constituents and that even includes (although mileage may vary depending on personality) people who didn't vote for them. A lot of republicans don't really support Trump but they cannot openly confess how they feel until the opinion of their constituents and support "allows" them to do so.

Politicians are "supposed" to work for us. You don't need to be a mechanic for a mechanic to work for you. Voting is like hiring a mechanic. It's his job to know politics. It's your job to give him the money and authority to fix your car. Of course the more money you give him the more likely he's going to work on your behalf and make sure the part of your car you care about the most is going to get fixed. If multiple mechanics are like, "hey please hire me to fix your car" you can make them bid for your business in a way that ensures that your car will be in better shape.

Now you may get a mechanic who says they can fix it as good as new. Guess what? You already know. They're probably lying or underestimating the job. And some, even with good intentions, underestimate the job and the opposition that may be keeping them from fixing the car. And usually, you take your car in because you don't like the sound its making or something like that. It's their job to say exactly why it sounds like that. They're supposed to convince you that they know your car well enough to say, "this is why it sounds like that and I can fix it." And often you'll get back a report that says you have 10 other things wrong with your car too. Some of it you might care about. Some of it you may not. But since you still needed that one issue to be fixed you still needed to hire a mechanic either way.

Obviously, the point I'm making is that you can be a single issue voter. You can say "My country is broken in this one area that's making noise. Fix it." And this is not just national. It's also local. What do your local politicians know about forestry and agriculture? What do they know about the environment? What do they care? Maybe they're bought out by oil companies or are invested in the stock market in a way they are indirectly benefited. Even if you only have one issue, find a mechanic that is right for your car. You would do it if it was for your car because... you can't afford for it to stay broken. The reason why people (in general) don't do it for their country is because other people are driving that car too and they think those people should fix it. We should ALL fix it because we're all driving it.

If politicians understand how important the environment is to you they are more likely to make it part of their platform and create legislation and policies to help. But if not enough people tell them then they will prioritize something else; something that is a bigger pain for the people who are speaking to them and grabbing their attention. And as long as those people support them and vote for them they're not going to worry about people who don't vote. That's like a mechanic volunteering to fix your car for free when others are paying.

Each issue has a different choir attached. The louder each choir is the more likely smart politicians will gravitate to that issue.

The problem with the Trump administration is that Trump just wants to be loved by the people he knows will vote for him. And his voters are hard working blue collar Americans; largely rural. Together, they have a lot of power thanks to the electoral college. But they're mainly desperate not to lose the jobs they currently have. The more technology we have the more we create "information technology" and the more investment and money pools in regions where there are more people with higher education in math and science.

You can understand this through the lens of ecology. Money is like water and a large part of America is feeling a drought because so much of the money is flowing through urban and big city areas like New York and California. A lot of the jobs in the south revolve around manufacturing and Defense contracts. What's going to benefit them? Military spending, subsidies for farms. etc. They know their jobs are getting shipped overseas. That's a reality. However, another reality is automation. So the long term solution isn't to fight for the jobs of the past but to create new jobs of the future where people can work from anywhere. This way computer scientists could live in Nebraska and their tax dollars would stay there, supporting local schools. The solutions to these problems are not simple but if you have a very simple minded individual he'll make it sound easy and demonize the other party for not doing it. And this effects largely 1, 2 and 3 issue voters (jobs, abortion, guns). If you know what the issues of voters are you can align your party's message to target these voters and do enough on these issues to keep them happy while making them think the other party wants to 1: outsource all their jobs, murder babies fresh out the womb, and come steal all your guns.

Jedi do not have to back one party or the other. And of course we can all have individual issues that we care about and vote on. But it would also help to discuss all these issues and possible solutions. Because why would the republicans want to solve all these issues if they knew that was people's reason for voting for them? why would democrats? They have to keep people coming back to them to keep them in power. So neither are ever the answer. One of them will just be better on a particular issue than the other. And you need to know enough about your particular issue (Even if its only one) so that they can't fool you into thinking they've got it handled or that there's nothing to be concerned about so vote for them anyway. You just need to know enough about your issue to understand what needs to be done.

For example: A lot of farmers backed Trump because he spoke directly to them and promised they were going to be taken care of. But how? Trump never really had a plan. He just claimed it was already done and that it was "so easy" and that they would get tired of "winning". The guy's a salesman. It's not a bad thing by itself. But it is if you cannot back it up. And so the trade war hurt farmers because Trump assumed that since China was "bad" in a few areas of business, that it was a net negative. That's not the case. The reason we actually like doing business with China is the cheap production. Our production... not so cheap. Americans have a higher cost of living which means we need to get paid more. When goods are made in china they cost less which means we spend less money. That's why people shop at Walmart. Making everything cost more isn't a huge problem if you raise wages. But then the fear is companies will leave and hire other people.

Everything is connected. If people in the south don't have good jobs then they're not going to care more about the environment. But if we don't care about the environment we'll have a bigger problem than not having jobs. The problem is that most of the environmental talk comes from the "elites" from these big cities that have all the money and jobs. And because of this people who aren't as well informed often think the "elites" are making it up and there's some conspiracy theory that explains how and why. You have all these people running around Washington trying to figure out all these problems like the brain, while the rest of the country provides the nervous system, telling them where the pain is and registering the intensity. The pain for the environment is high in the cities but low in rural areas but I believe these same rural areas will be hit hard by environmental changes. We need people like you to share your knowledge of the environment and how it's being affected by public policy. This is how the electorate can be informed because if people in the South are waiting on Fox News to tell them there's a problem... well that's not good.
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09 Nov 2019 00:03 - 09 Nov 2019 00:04 #345332 by Rex
Replied by Rex on topic Jedi and Politics?
Wow that was a tome.

I disagree with your mechanic analogy: if you go to pick a mechanic, and you don't know much in terms of how your car works, you will have no idea if the mechanic you picked did a good job. Sometimes cars with excellent maintenance will break, and sometimes horrible mechanics can get lucky. To the uninformed, it doesn't matter.

How can you expect your country to work the way you want if you don't understand it at a very basic level? It's not as though laws and court cases aren't available to the public, we have full access to understanding our government, but punt our responsibility and then get mad when it doesn't work the way we want.

Single-platform candidates and voters are a whole other discussion

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Last edit: 09 Nov 2019 00:04 by Rex.

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