Following the Myth

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08 Oct 2019 13:57 #344206 by Kelrax Lorcken
Replied by Kelrax Lorcken on topic Following the Myth

JamesSand wrote:

I also come to realize some of what Fyxe has in mind is not just spiritual but cultural; perhaps not in practical ways, but I myself have proposed things here as hopeful unifying cultural pieces that weren't any more popular, or necessarily practical. At this point, I don't necessarily see how anything would even need to change, here, just some new bonus activities, it may prove rather stimulating, even promote greater enthusiasm in the existing programs as we learn and examine more!


This comes up every now and again, under various guises, and there is a brief spark of interest by those whom are interested, but almost as fast, if not faster than the "Yes" crowd can shuffle themselves into something resembling a formed group, the "No" crowd comes together to create a din of objection - they're too poor, too busy, too isolated, too shy, too injured, they don't relate to the suggestion, or any other reason why any given suggested act or motif that establishes a "unifying culture" is untenable to them.

and so, for the sake of the "individuals" we all wander back to our own separate paths, destined to meander aimlessly with whatever meager goals we can generate for ourselves....


Yeah, you have a point there, eternal ray of sunshine that you are :P

Of course it's not as though none of us have anything in common, here, already.

In any case, do you, Fyxe. Whatever floats your boat, as they say, just make sure it doesn't sink someone else's :P

Kelrax "Stormcaller" Lorcken, Jedi Navigator
May The Force Guide You
www.templeofthejediorder.org/forum/47-Jo...-stormcaller?start=0
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09 Oct 2019 12:16 #344227 by ZealotX
Replied by ZealotX on topic Following the Myth

Carlos.Martinez3 wrote: I used to hear the old expression “I don’t need anyone to tell me how to worship, I can do that on my own. “ AND truthfully - they don’t. We have such a - free will- type of ability to choose so many avenues the option to do nothing always seems - present. If you hang out with those who like the color red - don’t be surprised at the color of shirt they give you. The same can be said for who we “yolk” or hang out with. After a while we tend - I know I do - tend to start acting like them. It has its good and its bad.

Balance is always needed with almost anything. The Myth is no exception. Find your myths. Find your real ones. If it’s Star Wars then it’s SW if it’s Star Trek then it’s Trek- if it’s a hobbits type of deal - then it’s that and it can even be a mix of real - current or fantasy myths. The idea is to give options to MAKE those choices and grow from them- never NOT grow. Spiritually if ya need help - I’m Pastor here and we have lots of clergy who can help ya find your nitch or at least give ya some encouragement.

www.templeofthejediorder.org/community/1629-steamboat28
www.templeofthejediorder.org/community/16755-raxicorico
www.templeofthejediorder.org/community/20117-thedude
www.templeofthejediorder.org/community/12547-j-k-barger
www.templeofthejediorder.org/community/17539-carlos-martinez3

There are other clergy throughout the Temple so feel free to reach out! That’s what we do!


Well here's a practical idea.

Please ask the person in charge of the forum to create a new forum for "Star Wars Mythos". And a few starter threads like "Luke", "Yoda", "Kenobi", "Anakin", etc. Those who want to talk about certain characters and their role and journey, can in a more serious way than currently afforded in the fan forum. Jedi who choose to can also add their own name and share their own wisdom while still keeping their personal journals private. They can easily copy and past things they want to share from their private journal to their public thread. This way everyone isn't so walled off. You can add another thread for Jedi vs Sith ideology where that can be debated in the context of the mythos. And all participation is voluntary. If people use it, cool. If they don't, cool. But I think it would be good to make it an option. If other religions can be represented and have serious places to talk about the bible I see no reason not to do the same for the mythos that inspires us all.
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09 Oct 2019 12:47 #344228 by Brick
Replied by Brick on topic Following the Myth

ZealotX wrote: Well here's a practical idea.

Please ask the person in charge of the forum to create a new forum for "Star Wars Mythos". And a few starter threads like "Luke", "Yoda", "Kenobi", "Anakin", etc. Those who want to talk about certain characters and their role and journey, can in a more serious way than currently afforded in the fan forum. Jedi who choose to can also add their own name and share their own wisdom while still keeping their personal journals private. They can easily copy and past things they want to share from their private journal to their public thread. This way everyone isn't so walled off. You can add another thread for Jedi vs Sith ideology where that can be debated in the context of the mythos. And all participation is voluntary. If people use it, cool. If they don't, cool. But I think it would be good to make it an option. If other religions can be represented and have serious places to talk about the bible I see no reason not to do the same for the mythos that inspires us all.


Would this not all fall under the 'Jediism' Forum? Given that already is the place for our religion to be represented and discussed in a serious space?

Apprentice to Maitre Chevalier Jedi Alexandre Orion

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'The only contest any of us should be engaged in is with ourselves, to be better than yesterday'

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09 Oct 2019 12:48 #344229 by ZealotX
Replied by ZealotX on topic Following the Myth

Brick wrote:

ZealotX wrote: Well here's a practical idea.

Please ask the person in charge of the forum to create a new forum for "Star Wars Mythos". And a few starter threads like "Luke", "Yoda", "Kenobi", "Anakin", etc. Those who want to talk about certain characters and their role and journey, can in a more serious way than currently afforded in the fan forum. Jedi who choose to can also add their own name and share their own wisdom while still keeping their personal journals private. They can easily copy and past things they want to share from their private journal to their public thread. This way everyone isn't so walled off. You can add another thread for Jedi vs Sith ideology where that can be debated in the context of the mythos. And all participation is voluntary. If people use it, cool. If they don't, cool. But I think it would be good to make it an option. If other religions can be represented and have serious places to talk about the bible I see no reason not to do the same for the mythos that inspires us all.


Would this not all fall under the 'Jediism' Forum? Given that already is the place for our religion to be represented and discussed in a serious space?


My friend, you may have a point there.
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16 Oct 2019 17:18 - 16 Oct 2019 18:09 #344477 by OB1Shinobi
Replied by OB1Shinobi on topic Following the Myth

ZealotX wrote: Please ask the person in charge of the forum to create a new forum for "Star Wars Mythos". And a few starter threads like "Luke", "Yoda", "Kenobi", "Anakin", etc. Those who want to talk about certain characters and their role and journey, can in a more serious way than currently afforded in the fan forum.



The very first thing i want to say here is that i like the discussion you are suggesting; i think an exploration into some of the characters could be quite rewarding for those who participate.
Im curious where the limits are, however. What exactly is mythology? Is it just entertainment that people still remember? Would we say The Simpsons are mythological? What about I Love Lucy? If mythology is different from mere entertainment, how do we identify the genuinely mythological elements in SW and filter out all the bits that were really just people trying to come up with a story that readers would think was cool? Does Jar-Jar get mythos status? What about colonel Akbar?

I dont think you need anyones permission or assistance to get this thing going. I’d bet dollars to doughnuts that if you (or anyone) were to open a topic in either the Jediism or the Open Discussions forums that it would be allowed to carry on for as long as people were cordial with one another.


Jedi who choose to can also add their own name and share their own wisdom while still keeping their personal journals private. They can easily copy and past things they want to share from their private journal to their public thread. This way everyone isn't so walled off.


This sounds like it would encourage people to assume themselves wise and present themselves as some kind of gurus. Im of the view that the better part of wisdom for most of us is to keep most of our “wisdom” to ourselves lol. However, i also think this place is better off with more conversations than with fewer conversations and im supportive of anything that gets people talking. Maybe just open such a topic and show us what this would actually look like?



You can add another thread for Jedi vs Sith ideology where that can be debated in the context of the mythos.


Though this brings us back to the issue of filtering out the mythology from the from the fluff, i do like this idea. Im assuming when you say “in the context of the mythos” that you specifically mean to stay mindful of the distinction between the jedi and sith of the stories and the jedi and sith of real life? And the discussion youre suggesting is to focus on the stories?

Finally, here is my rant about where i think the mythology of SW has failed. Its in a spoiler because its not really relevant to this discussion but i really wanted to say it, anyway lol

Warning: Spoiler! [ Click to expand ]

“As long as you feel that you are the most important thing in the world you cannot really appreciate the world around you. You are like a horse with blinders, all you see is yourself apart from everything else.”
-Don Juan Matus
Last edit: 16 Oct 2019 18:09 by OB1Shinobi.
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18 Oct 2019 14:14 #344588 by ZealotX
Replied by ZealotX on topic Following the Myth
www.jedifederation.org/

I want to share this here because I think it has some relevance to the discussion. But I will use a spoiler tag since its from another site. This was, I believe written in 2016 by Angelus Kalen, talking about the current state of Jediism. I'm personally going to try to make the next gathering.

Warning: Spoiler! [ Click to expand ]

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18 Oct 2019 15:06 #344594 by ZealotX
Replied by ZealotX on topic Following the Myth

OB1Shinobi wrote:

ZealotX wrote: Please ask the person in charge of the forum to create a new forum for "Star Wars Mythos". And a few starter threads like "Luke", "Yoda", "Kenobi", "Anakin", etc. Those who want to talk about certain characters and their role and journey, can in a more serious way than currently afforded in the fan forum.



The very first thing i want to say here is that i like the discussion you are suggesting; i think an exploration into some of the characters could be quite rewarding for those who participate.
Im curious where the limits are, however. What exactly is mythology? Is it just entertainment that people still remember? Would we say The Simpsons are mythological? What about I Love Lucy? If mythology is different from mere entertainment, how do we identify the genuinely mythological elements in SW and filter out all the bits that were really just people trying to come up with a story that readers would think was cool? Does Jar-Jar get mythos status? What about colonel Akbar?

I dont think you need anyones permission or assistance to get this thing going. I’d bet dollars to doughnuts that if you (or anyone) were to open a topic in either the Jediism or the Open Discussions forums that it would be allowed to carry on for as long as people were cordial with one another.


Jedi who choose to can also add their own name and share their own wisdom while still keeping their personal journals private. They can easily copy and past things they want to share from their private journal to their public thread. This way everyone isn't so walled off.


This sounds like it would encourage people to assume themselves wise and present themselves as some kind of gurus. Im of the view that the better part of wisdom for most of us is to keep most of our “wisdom” to ourselves lol. However, i also think this place is better off with more conversations than with fewer conversations and im supportive of anything that gets people talking. Maybe just open such a topic and show us what this would actually look like?



You can add another thread for Jedi vs Sith ideology where that can be debated in the context of the mythos.


Though this brings us back to the issue of filtering out the mythology from the from the fluff, i do like this idea. Im assuming when you say “in the context of the mythos” that you specifically mean to stay mindful of the distinction between the jedi and sith of the stories and the jedi and sith of real life? And the discussion youre suggesting is to focus on the stories?

Finally, here is my rant about where i think the mythology of SW has failed. Its in a spoiler because its not really relevant to this discussion but i really wanted to say it, anyway lol

Warning: Spoiler! [ Click to expand ]


oddly, I don't see my last post where I answered your questions. It wasn't long but I'll give an even shorter response.

1. myth is defined as a traditional story, especially one concerning the early history of a people or explaining some natural or social phenomenon, and typically involving supernatural beings or events.

or...

Myth is a folklore genre consisting of narratives or stories that play a fundamental role in a society, such as foundational tales or origin myths. The main characters in myths are usually gods, demigods or supernatural humans.

Because Jedi check several of these boxes: fundamental role in society, supernatural powers, I see them as being the main focus of SW canon in much the same was that Israel was the focus of the biblical stories. You then have individual Jedi comprising key roles within that arc the same way you have Moses and Jesus. OB1 is kinda like a Moses and of course Luke is kinda like a Jesus. You can't really say anything like this for Homer Simpson so even though its part of pop culture I wouldn't classify it as myth or legend. Also SW canon was inspired by other myths and legends the same way the bible was inspired by the Epic of Gilgamesh. Did whoever it was who wrote the Noah story believe it was true? Or did they know they were taking a story from another culture that may or maybe wasn't even "non-fiction" in its original form? We simply don't know what everyone believed. So how can we be sure everyone who read the bible took it as literal and historical fact? That would be a massive assumption. According to Exodus they weren't really allowed to publicly oppose the religious belief but what did people think privately? We don't know because it was an authoritarian regime.

Does Jar Jar get mythos status? Uh... no. Jar Jar is a supporting cast member the same way Simon of Cyrene is for Jesus. Simon is not the focus but rather a helper. By the same token, one doesn't need to draw inspiration from either Simon or Jar Jar. They're just there because of the Jedi.

Akbar is kinda like the Centurion whose daughter was brought back to life by Jesus. Also, not a main character. However, if there was enough interest there might be a spin off. But I don't think I would read it. Akbar is forever in my heart for "It's a trap!" but I think that's about as far as I can go. For me, SW is a story about the Jedi vs Sith conflict. Everyone else simply gets wrapped up in it.

I said something about how wisdom is like art and some art is meant to be shared while others is just for the artist. Ultimately, beauty is in the eye of the beholder and I cannot judge other people by their expression or whether or not I personally appreciate their art. Maybe someone else will. Maybe someone is so wise that the wisdom of someone else is folly to them. But I think imagining ourselves to be in that position is arrogance. It would be wise to assume that everyone has wisdom because everyone has a different experience. Not two pathways through life are the same so we can all learn from each other. It is thinking that we can't learn from each other that is the problem. But hey... that's my own "wisdom" so to speak so whether you or anyone else appreciates it or not is totally up to you. But yeah... that's kind of what that would look like.

Yes, Jedi vs Sith in the context of the mythos because it deals with the paradigm between two opposing ideologies. Real life sith do not seem particularly wed to the mythical Sith ideology. It's more of a cherry picking to be honest. But I don't want to talk about real life people, which is why its safer and far less offensive to talk about people who aren't real. Which... is part of the beauty of star wars. You're not going to hurt Luke's feelings. Mark Hamill isn't going to call you and give you "what for". People may disagree from an intellectual or philosophical perspective but that's how it should be. It is between that conflict between points of view that we can learn the most. If the forums are just a preaching to the choir type of scenario then there wont be much activity. Just like if there were no "Wars" in "star wars" there wouldn't be much of an actual story to tell about the Jedi and we wouldn't know anything about them. We know them through the lens of conflict. Therefore, although it sounds... I don't know... wrong from the perspective of forum moderation, but I think conflict should be encouraged but regulated. I want to see debates, not necessarily cum by yah everyone hugging on clouds and rainbows. It's just not that interesting.

I think there's also something to be said about religions having a common "holy book" or set of writings from which they draw their own ideas of morality. Stories of good vs evil is how people generally arrive at a version of morality that suits them. If you don't have that two people can say they're both Jedi with two totally opposing views of morality where someone things is "good" to steal from you as long as they did it while you weren't looking. You can say "Jedi believe in XYZ" but if you don't have written material to support your doctrines then what is the basis for the WHY that people should share that view? If you have 2 Christians and one denomination believes in the Trinity and the other doesn't one can say "due to our interpretation of this verse and that, we believe the Trinity". The other can say "due to our interpretation of this verse and that, we don't". But if you don't have verses... you get my point... then what is the basis for that belief? Because the group said so? And so its fine if you ALREADY shared that belief but if you don't then someone is basically telling you that you can't be a Jedi unless you believe what they believe without them actually having anything to prove that belief or doctrine is correct. And to put it lightly, that's kind of a problem.

If someone who isn't a Jedi asks me why I believe XYZ, I can tell them why. But if they ask why WE believe XYZ, then I can't because there's no common material that says why it's correct. And my reasons for believing those things have nothing to do with Jediism. It's just things I already shared in common and therefore didn't have to be convinced of. But for those who do need convincing they're currently out of luck. I can't point to any Jedi material. I can use my own logic and experience but that's not Jediism. It wouldn't be a problem if there were no Jedi beliefs but then what would be the point of calling yourself a Jedi?
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