Following the Myth

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05 Oct 2019 07:16 #344121 by Brick
Replied by Brick on topic Following the Myth

Fyxe wrote: ...did you go through these lessons of IP? this comes from those very teachings. Why dont you know these things?

Fyxe wrote: But I thought the foundation was understood? Isnt it Star Wars mythology?

'He who thinks he knows, doesn't know. He who knows that he doesn't know, knows.' - Joseph Campbell

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05 Oct 2019 07:36 - 05 Oct 2019 07:39 #344122 by Brick
Replied by Brick on topic Following the Myth

ZealotX wrote:

Brick wrote: You yourself talk about the Jedi from the films as if they really do exist:


No... come on, guys. Seriously? The title of the thread is "Following the Myth". I don't think the OP is remotely saying the Jedi are real, but rather citing the mythical Jedi from the Films as being the "genuine article" vs what what we are attempting to emulate. This is not to denigrate anyone but rather to give honor to the source material from which we are (and should) draw ideas and inspiration.

I get that ZealotX. It was some of the things Fyxe has said since their OP that made me think it prudent to remind them that, at the end of the day, we are just talking about a bunch of film characters.

But we're not trying emulate the Jedi of the films? We're creating our own thing, not based on the Jedi, but based on the same sourse material that inspired the Jedi of the films. It literally says this on our homepage:

'Jedi at this site are not the same as those portrayed within the Star Wars franchise. Star Wars Jedi are fictional characters that exist within a literary and cinematic UNIVERSE.

[...]

Jediism does not base its focus on myth and fiction but on the real life issues and philosophies that are at the source of myth'.


ZealotX wrote: And I think some of us are just more honest about it. Personally, I'm influenced by Yoda as much as the apostle Paul. It doesn't really even matter if either of them were real or not. It just doesn't. It's about their perspective which I can judge independently of their credibility.

I fully support your viewpoint here Zealot, as I said earlier:

'...that is not to say that we can't learn anything from the story of Star Wars (particularly the original trilogy), especially when we relate Luke's 'Hero's Journey' to that of our own path and the lesson inferred with that.'

I fully grasp' following the myth' in that regard. But some of the other comments Fyxe has made about wanting to live with other Jedi in a temple/tent, and training with lightsabers and try to move things with their mind sound more like role play to me.

Welcome Team, IP Team, and Apprentice to Maitre Chevalier Jedi Alexandre Orion

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'The only contest any of us should be engaged in is with ourselves, to be better than yesterday'

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Last edit: 05 Oct 2019 07:39 by Brick.
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05 Oct 2019 22:17 #344135 by Fyxe
Replied by Fyxe on topic Following the Myth
Roleplay to you is real life to me. Just like real life to you is roleplay for non jedi.

Besides that the jedi were not inspired by anything, they arent real, remember? Lucas was inspired in his writings. Do you worship him now? If you are trying to distance yourself from that or movie jedi then why the heck to you call yourself JEDI!!? that makes about as much sense as the kettle calling the pot black.

Where ever you go, there you are. Make the best of it.
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05 Oct 2019 23:00 #344136 by Kelrax Lorcken
Replied by Kelrax Lorcken on topic Following the Myth

Fyxe wrote: Roleplay to you is real life to me. Just like real life to you is roleplay for non jedi.

Besides that the jedi were not inspired by anything, they arent real, remember? Lucas was inspired in his writings. Do you worship him now? If you are trying to distance yourself from that or movie jedi then why the heck to you call yourself JEDI!!? that makes about as much sense as the kettle calling the pot black.


When you say things like "roleplay is real", that sort of thing is why some here are dubious of your intentions or sincerity, because at face value it sounds mad. I'm not going to say that you should fret what others think, but you should think carefully on statements like this. If you can't handle people saying you sound crazy, maybe avoid saying things that invite the question of your ability to distinguish between reality and fiction?

Your question/s has been answered several times over, by several people, very clearly, and patiently. The answers are the answers, whether you like them, or not. If you still don't understand the answers, it should at least be considered if that's someone else's failing to express them, or your own, for not knowing enough to understand them.

It's becoming increasingly clear that you don't know very much about a number of things you are talking about (it is a widely known fact that to create the image of the Jedi, originally, George Lucas drew heavy inspiration from romanticized imagery of Samurai and Wild West stories. That inspiration bit is what people are talking about, so when you claim "the Jedi weren't inspired by anything", it only hurts your position and arguments). Again, you need to rethink the conversations you start if you're going to be so defensive about the answers.

Might I add, it takes a certain amount of nerve to come into a community, starting a conversation from a position of ignorance (why would you pose it as a question, otherwise?) only to lecture the community on what it genuinely knows better than you, particularly about itself.

No one is telling you that you can't do this, nobody is withholding your assumption of the mantle of "Jedi", but if you're going to express your ideas and beliefs, you do need to thicken your skin against criticism (and perhaps implement greater tolerance for the differing interpretations within Jediism), especially if you want to seek a purist lifestyle in a world that isn't going to understand that your practice and interpretation does coming from a place of sincerity and not just "fandom gone awry".

You're attitude is far too dogmatic, and you're awfully sensitive to being judged or disagreed with, I do recommend an adjustment on these matters, lest it spoil your overall experience and progress.

Kelrax "Stormcaller" Lorcken, Jedi Navigator
May The Force Guide You
www.templeofthejediorder.org/forum/47-Jo...-stormcaller?start=0
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06 Oct 2019 00:11 #344138 by Fyxe
Replied by Fyxe on topic Following the Myth
OMG I never said role play was real or that I didnt understand answers, just never mind!

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06 Oct 2019 02:16 - 06 Oct 2019 02:17 #344139 by JamesSand
Replied by JamesSand on topic Following the Myth
I'm torn between

A. Just some dillhole from the internet

and

B. The nature of Jediism isn't accessible for some reason.

This next question might seem poor for whatever reasons any number of people can think of, but I've got to start somewhere with my "bracketing" of what is going wrong with this communication, and (like it or lump it) it's often a semi-reliable starting point in framing things (not necessarily terribly accurate, but accurate enough often enough to be useful)

How old are you? (we can bracket further later, if it seems necessary to find the "ground" needed to start working together on the subject we are trying to mutually understand)
Last edit: 06 Oct 2019 02:17 by JamesSand.
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06 Oct 2019 09:05 - 06 Oct 2019 09:14 #344142 by Gisteron
Replied by Gisteron on topic Following the Myth

Fyxe wrote: OMG I never said role play was real...

Dude, it's your very last post before this. It's not even on a different page...

Fyxe wrote: Roleplay to you is real life to me.


Last edit: 06 Oct 2019 09:14 by Gisteron.
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07 Oct 2019 06:40 - 07 Oct 2019 07:37 #344157 by Brick
Replied by Brick on topic Following the Myth

Fyxe wrote: Roleplay to you is real life to me. Just like real life to you is roleplay for non jedi.

Unfortunately, that's not how it works.

As for the 'non-jedi' label it would appear you've thrown in my direction: I'm not that bothered by how others choose to label me, so it's not really an issue here.

But, a word of advise, incase you do come across people who are bothered by such things: coming into this community for the first time and telling established members that they are not what they purport to be, purely because they don't meet your definition, probably isn't the best introduction you could make.

Fyxe wrote: Besides that the jedi were not inspired by anything, they arent real, remember? Lucas was inspired in his writings.

You are correct. I misspoke. I meant that we are inspired by (and a good chunk of the IP consists of) the source material that inspired Lucas when he was creating the Jedi.

Fyxe wrote: Do you worship him now?

No, we don't. In fact, I'm pretty sure there used to be a clear statement on the homepage saying that 'we do not worship George Lucas', but I can't seem to find it :dry:

Fyxe wrote: If you are trying to distance yourself from that or movie jedi then why the heck to you call yourself JEDI!!? that makes about as much sense as the kettle calling the pot black.

Because we're inspired by the same source materials. Though I see your point. I've made the same argument myself a couple of times. It's one of the reasons I'm not that fussed about labels (I find that half the time they confuse just as much as they clarify). I guess the word 'Jedi' makes it more accessible to the general public?

Anyway, I suggest you read the FAQ, particularly the section entitled 'What is TotJO'. I've pasted a notable paragraph below:

TotJO wrote: Here are some things TotJO is not: we are not a role-playing site, we do not teach mystical powers or how to build lightsabers, we are not a dedicated Star Wars fan site, we are not affiliated with George Lucas or Disney and we are not for people who just want to wear a badge reading "I'm a Jedi".


Welcome Team, IP Team, and Apprentice to Maitre Chevalier Jedi Alexandre Orion

IP Journal | IP Journal 2 | AP Journal | Open Journal

'The only contest any of us should be engaged in is with ourselves, to be better than yesterday'

- Knight Senan
Last edit: 07 Oct 2019 07:37 by Brick.
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07 Oct 2019 12:09 #344158 by Kelrax Lorcken
Replied by Kelrax Lorcken on topic Following the Myth

Brick wrote:

Fyxe wrote: Roleplay to you is real life to me. Just like real life to you is roleplay for non jedi.

Unfortunately, that's not how it works.

As for the 'non-jedi' label it would appear you've thrown in my direction: I'm not that bothered by how others choose to label me, so it's not really an issue here.

But, a word of advise, incase you do come across people who are bothered by such things: coming into this community for the first time and telling established members that they are not what they purport to be, purely because they don't meet your definition, probably isn't the best introduction you could make.

Fyxe wrote: Besides that the jedi were not inspired by anything, they arent real, remember? Lucas was inspired in his writings.

You are correct. I misspoke. I meant that we are inspired by (and a good chunk of the IP consists of) the source material that inspired Lucas when he was creating the Jedi.

Fyxe wrote: Do you worship him now?

No, we don't. In fact, I'm pretty sure there used to be a clear statement on the homepage saying that 'we do not worship George Lucas', but I can't seem to find it :dry:

Fyxe wrote: If you are trying to distance yourself from that or movie jedi then why the heck to you call yourself JEDI!!? that makes about as much sense as the kettle calling the pot black.

Because we're inspired by the same source materials. Though I see your point. I've made the same argument myself a couple of times. It's one of the reasons I'm not that fussed about labels (I find that half the time they confuse just as much as they clarify). I guess the word 'Jedi' makes it more accessible to the general public?

Anyway, I suggest you read the FAQ, particularly the section entitled 'What is TotJO'. I've pasted a notable paragraph below:

TotJO wrote: Here are some things TotJO is not: we are not a role-playing site, we do not teach mystical powers or how to build lightsabers, we are not a dedicated Star Wars fan site, we are not affiliated with George Lucas or Disney and we are not for people who just want to wear a badge reading "I'm a Jedi".


Kudos, you handled that much better than I did -_-

Kelrax "Stormcaller" Lorcken, Jedi Navigator
May The Force Guide You
www.templeofthejediorder.org/forum/47-Jo...-stormcaller?start=0
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07 Oct 2019 12:44 #344159 by _Vergere_
Replied by _Vergere_ on topic Following the Myth
I've been keeping an eye on this thread for a while now, and though I haven't read the entire thing, I think I understand what Fyxe is getting at.

It would seem that this site has lost sight of its roots. Yes, I understand that Lucas got his inspiration from Joseph Campbell and that Star Wars is fictional, but the Jedi of film used to serve as inspiration. The characters and story of Star Wars are worth consideration because they are based on mythology, but it seems that people here tend to skip over Star Wars, and go to the source of the myth.

There's an old saying that is applicable here: A picture is worth a thousand words. We can talk and talk and talk about concepts, have discussions that seem to go nowhere, but sometimes just being shown what a Jedi is has more value than the conversations we could have about them. That isn't to say we shouldn't talk about the fictional Jedi or Star Wars, as their existence is the reason we're all here, but I haven't seen much brought up about the fiction since I became a member.


Listen well: Everything I tell you is a lie. Every question I ask is a trick.
You will find no truth in me.

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