Following the Myth

More
02 Oct 2019 15:19 - 02 Oct 2019 15:25 #344040 by Carlos.Martinez3
Replied by Carlos.Martinez3 on topic Following the Myth
With or without your consent brother brick I’m using this for the rest of my life.

“I think the main advantage we have as Jedi is that we know our stories and myths are just that. We're not bound by the idea of them being the gospel truth, and that gives us a great deal of freedom in our interpretation of the lessons we can learn from them.”

A million thank you s my man , if you were here, our teq. would be cold and blue! Cheers Br Brick and thank you again.

Contact The Clergy
Pastor of Temple of the Jedi Order
This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
The Block
Build, not tear down.
Nosce te ipsum / Cerca trova
Last edit: 02 Oct 2019 15:25 by Brick.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Brick, Rex, Kelrax Lorcken

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
02 Oct 2019 15:22 #344042 by Brick
Replied by Brick on topic Following the Myth

Carlos.Martinez3 wrote: ...if you were here, our teq. would be cold and blue!


I'll drink to that!

Cheers Carlos

Welcome Team, IP Team, and Apprentice to Maitre Chevalier Jedi Alexandre Orion

IP Journal | IP Journal 2 | AP Journal | Open Journal

'The only contest any of us should be engaged in is with ourselves, to be better than yesterday'

- Knight Senan
The following user(s) said Thank You: Carlos.Martinez3, Rex

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
02 Oct 2019 22:16 #344046 by Fyxe
Replied by Fyxe on topic Following the Myth
What I mean by myth of the Jedi is the first 6 movies. Where the Jedi had a temple and lived a certain way and did certain things and held certain ideals. Like no attachment and force powers and upholding justice at the tip of a light saber. Even in the new movies the Jedi are just a myth. Many people dont believe they ever existed! How is that any different than how we on earth take the Jedi? The stories are passed from generation to generation and people want to be what they stood for again. People today want to be midevil knights or samari or other stuff like that. I want to be Jedi. I want to live those things they stood for. King aurthor gets recreated all the time and hes not real so why not Jedi? thats just what I want to try and do.

Where ever you go, there you are. Make the best of it.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Carlos.Martinez3

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
03 Oct 2019 01:51 #344048 by Rex
Replied by Rex on topic Following the Myth
Why limit yourself to a single set of myths, half of which include Jar Jar?

IP Team Lead
TM: Carlos Martinez
ὁ δὲ ἀμυχηδόν νεξέταστος βίος γίγνομαι βιωτὸς ἀνθρώπῳ
The following user(s) said Thank You: Carlos.Martinez3, Brick

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
03 Oct 2019 08:07 - 03 Oct 2019 08:08 #344049 by Brick
Replied by Brick on topic Following the Myth
I hope its OK that I've slightly reordered your comments to make them easier for me to address, I don't believe that in doing this I have changed the meaning of your statements:

Fyxe wrote: I want to be Jedi. I want to live those things they stood for.

What/who is preventing you from doing that?

Fyxe wrote: Where the Jedi had a temple and lived a certain way and did certain things and held certain ideals. Like no attachment and force powers and upholding justice at the tip of a light saber.

The only difficulty with doing this is that its pretty expensive to build a temple, force powers don't exist in our world (at least not anything like in the movies), and if you run around chopping peoples arms off with a laser sword then you're probably going to end up in jail :laugh: .

You could do the whole no attachment thing, but it sounds pretty lonely unless you have a temple of fellow Jedi to do it with. And I'd argue that the Jedi in the movies sucked at the whole no attachment thing anyway. Sure, they had LESS attachment than most, but I'm pretty sure that Qui-Gon Ginn was (emotionally) attached to Obi-wan, who was in turn (emotionally) attached to Anakin and Luke.

Fyxe wrote: Even in the new movies the Jedi are just a myth. Many people dont believe they ever existed! How is that any different than how we on earth take the Jedi?

Because they actually did exist in that universe, whereas they don't in ours. I understand your argument of people wanting to be like medieval knights and samurai, but 1. Knights and Samurais actually existed in our world and 2. There is a reason they don't still exist now.

The Jedi of the film work in their universe because they 'fit' in that universe. Knights work in medieval times because they 'fit' in that time period etc.

To be any of those things today would be too impractical. Worse still, it would simply be a copy of something that came before. In the long run, I don't think it would fulfil you as it would never feel authentic and would therefore never live up to your expectations.

Better to take inspiration from those things you love and create something new which can 'fit' in the time and universe in which we find ourselves now.

Thats my two cents anyway

Welcome Team, IP Team, and Apprentice to Maitre Chevalier Jedi Alexandre Orion

IP Journal | IP Journal 2 | AP Journal | Open Journal

'The only contest any of us should be engaged in is with ourselves, to be better than yesterday'

- Knight Senan
Last edit: 03 Oct 2019 08:08 by Brick.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Carlos.Martinez3, Rex, Kelrax Lorcken

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
03 Oct 2019 15:00 - 03 Oct 2019 15:01 #344052 by Fyxe
Replied by Fyxe on topic Following the Myth
Jesus is a myth but people try to be like him, right? The practice supernatural healing and prayer against evil, they pretend that wine is blood and bread is his body just like light sabers. They believe he had superpowers that could transform stuff and bring back dead, just like Plageuis. They build massive buildings in his honor. and they also believe he will come back and save them some day. Joseph Cambell said these peiople got that part wrong because they confused poetry with reality but I dont do that. I dont think Jedi will come back but I want to do that other stuff to be like them just like the myth of Jesus. Whats wrong with that? and yes I want to find others that do that too, so that will not leave me alone.

Where ever you go, there you are. Make the best of it.
Last edit: 03 Oct 2019 15:01 by Fyxe.
The following user(s) said Thank You: ZealotX

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
03 Oct 2019 15:54 - 03 Oct 2019 15:55 #344053 by Brick
Replied by Brick on topic Following the Myth

Fyxe wrote: Jesus is a myth but people try to be like him, right?

You and I may consider him a myth. A lot of people, however, consider him to be VERY real.


Again, please define 'trying to be like Jesus'. There is big a difference between 'trying to be like Jesus' as in following the teachings of Jesus, and 'trying to be like Jesus' as in turning water into wine and rising from the dead. People who do the former are accepted by society as Christians or the like. People who do the latter are written off by society as nut jobs.

Fyxe wrote: They practice supernatural healing and prayer against evil, they pretend that wine is blood and bread is his body just like light sabers.

Forgive me but I don't see the parallels between a 2,000 year old supposed 'miracle' and a weapon from a 70's sci-fi film?

Fyxe wrote: They believe he had superpowers that could transform stuff and bring back dead, just like Plageuis.

Yes, but they don't believe that they can do those things. There are a small number who do but, as I've said, society usually deems those people to be insane or con-artists.

Fyxe wrote: They build massive buildings in his honor. and they also believe he will come back and save them some day.

They don't do that so much anymore. In one of the Video's Campbell talks about how you can see what society prioritises by the size of the buildings. 600 years ago, it was churches. Today its Banks.

To build a Jedi Temple big enough to suit your desires requires a lot of money/time/effort. We live in an increasingly secular society, I think you'd struggle to find the funding and labour required for such a thing. I also think you'd struggle to find enough followers to fill it.

Fyxe wrote: I dont think Jedi will come back....

That's probably wise, as they were never here to begin with :laugh: :P ;)

Fyxe wrote: ...but I want to do that other stuff to be like them just like the myth of Jesus. Whats wrong with that?

As with my Jesus analogy above, I don't think there is anything wrong with wanting to 'be like a Jedi' as in follow their teachings (which is basically what we try to do here).

But if you're wanting to 'be like a Jedi' as in levitate stuff with your mind, fight bad guys with light sabers, and live in a temple with a bunch of people in beige karate clothes, then disappointed you will be.

Fyxe wrote: and yes I want to find others that do that too, so that will not leave me alone.

Like I say, I can't see this happening, but I wish you every success with it. However, even if you do find a piece of land, build a temple, get people interested in joining you there. You will not be viewed by our society in the same way that the Jedi are viewed by theirs in the movies...

Welcome Team, IP Team, and Apprentice to Maitre Chevalier Jedi Alexandre Orion

IP Journal | IP Journal 2 | AP Journal | Open Journal

'The only contest any of us should be engaged in is with ourselves, to be better than yesterday'

- Knight Senan
Last edit: 03 Oct 2019 15:55 by Brick.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Kelrax Lorcken, Casshern

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
03 Oct 2019 16:50 #344059 by Fyxe
Replied by Fyxe on topic Following the Myth
Well the fact that they consider jesus real is a mistake like I said. They got poetry and real life mixed up.

Trying to be like Jesus is not following his teachings but living his teachings. For me it means the teachings of the Jedi. The real teachings of the Jedi, not the made up ones. Catholics believe that their grape juice and biscuits actually do transform into real blood and flesh. And they believe their water bucket at the front of the temple is literally touched by jesus. The catholics are not considered nut jobs either. The light saber is no different than this is what I mean. Like our light sabers are not literally lazers unless we believe they are!

I suppose you don’t live in the bible belt? There is an entire city of gold here! build in modern times as a tribute to jesus! So they are still building stuff like that all over the place. We don’t need to build anything so fancy. They guy that built the city of gold started out in a circus tent!! Lol. Lets get a circus tent and start out! That’s what I mean.

I believe psychic powers do exist. there is so much evicence for it there is no way they cant exist. it just becomes a matter of believing like yoda taught luke to do and we can master those as well.

Where ever you go, there you are. Make the best of it.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
03 Oct 2019 18:09 #344063 by ZealotX
Replied by ZealotX on topic Following the Myth
I really like what Fyxe is saying. I was raised with the bible; one book full of many short stories about a group of people and their heroes. Some of their heroes were strong fighters. Some were great thinkers. Some where seers called prophets. And one... well... one was the "chosen one".

This is really no different from star wars.

Every Sabbath(Saturday), growing up, we went to church and we studied the same stories over and over, taking different lessons from them, making the key characters either role models or cautionary tales. Both Jedi and Sith did this in their studies as well. They studied previous masters. When Palpatine spoke to Anakin about Darth Plaguis that's exactly what he was doing; using Jedi history to teach.

Yes, we know Jedi history isn't real. Obviously. But who said it had to be? Who makes those rules about religion and why would/should we follow them? What child doesn't know the story of the three little pigs? Or could fill in the blanks if you mentioned porridge that was "juuuuust right"? What child doesn't know how to do the hokey pokey? Do you know how old that is? And we keep repeating the story of Santa Claus and have a whole holiday where he try not to go broke buying gifts. Not to mention the tooth fairy.

We do all these things get to be fake as fake can be and yet we seem to be scared to actually use star wars mythology for, from my perspective, the exact same purposes?

If you tell your kid a story about something Yoda did or said and they say "but Yoda isn't real!" just say "and neither is Santa so should I stop buying Christmas presents?"

And there is more star wars material out there than books in the bible. But books in the bible are complimented by thousands upon thousands of Christian books that are basically the "extended universe" of the bible. And like star wars there is a biblical cannon as well as books that were rejected from said cannon. And different religions and denominations either stay strictly to the cannon or they embrace more. It's a choice they make without fear because they cannot accept anyone else influencing their religion.

So... begs the question. Are we afraid of other religions making fun of us? Because it doesn't make that much sense that we have forums for people who believe(d) that Jesus actually walked on water but not for people who want to incorporate more of the star wars myths and legends into their study or spiritual development.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Kohadre, OB1Shinobi, Fyxe

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
03 Oct 2019 18:41 #344064 by Kohadre
Replied by Kohadre on topic Following the Myth

ZealotX wrote: We know Jedi history isn't real. Obviously. But who said it had to be? Who makes those rules about religion and why would/should we follow them? What child doesn't know the story of the three little pigs? Or could fill in the blanks if you mentioned porridge that was "juuuuust right"? What child doesn't know how to do the hokey pokey? Do you know how old that is? And we keep repeating the story of Santa Claus and have a whole holiday where he try not to go broke buying gifts. Not to mention the tooth fairy.

We do all these things get to be fake as fake can be and yet we seem to be scared to actually use star wars mythology for, from my perspective, the exact same purposes?


From my experience, this has to do more with societal expectations/norms; and localized culture than much of anything else. A Christian celebrating Christmas, probably isn't going to be received that well in an Islamic community where the recognized celebrations center around "Eid al-Fitr" for example.

In certain communities, celebrating any religious holiday that falls outside of the cultural norms can even be taken as an insult; regardless if that was the intention. Even living in the U.S where such differences are meant to be celebrated, I've seen people become violently angry when those celebrating "alternative" religious holidays come into the mix.

An example I can give of this, is certain groups of Christians fighting against the "happy holidays" greeting. People within these groups sincerely believe that the holiday season is meant for Christmas, and Christmas only.

So I believe our fear comes more from our intuitive understanding that society in general tends to be intolerant, or otherwise less than understanding of views and celebrations that go against their own established traditions.

Remember the doctrine; embody the code.
Live the creed; embrace the 16 teachings.
Honor your vows.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Brick

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Moderators: KobosBrick