Alcohol

I'm an alcoholic who is seven years sober (actually my sobriety date is tomorrow).
Should Jedi drink alcohol? I see no reason why not. The caveat of course would be to do so in moderation and responsibly. Being Jedi in my view is a verb so getting drunk and being irresponsible or drinking to unsafe levels seems incongruous to how I would imagine a Jedi.
Can I drink? No I can't. I lost that privilege seven years ago.
I hope you can make some judgement based on the responses above on how to approach alcohol.
The best thing about going sober is it introduced me to Jedi Philosophy in a practical and meaningful way. My blog is sort of a journal to that.
Best

Ps. Here is what Wookeipiedia says about booze:
https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Alcohol/Legends

I remember the episode in Clone Wars when Hondo Ohnaka spikes Anakin's and Kenobi's alcoholic drinks and then tries to ransom them off with Dooku. Have to give it to him, he had some nerve!

Rex wrote: ...alcohol (even outside of acute toxicity) is definitely poisonous.

Hormesis, anyone?

Frequent consumption in small doses might actually be cardio-protective, the same way exercise triggers more oxidative stress (i.e. aging and inflammation), but ultimately leads to better long term health than no exercise.

I would say the drug-of-choice itself is not the problem. The problem lies in how we misuse things (drugs and not-drugs alike) to soothe a psychological and/or physiological pain that is not actually addressed or resolved by the thing, and is thus destructive.

For me, I was lucky to not be exposed to alcohol until very late in college, so I never made the connection between alcohol and coping mechanism, and thus I am less likely to use it as a tool of addiction.

Junk food... that's another matter. Since I can remember, family reunions (where happiness and fun abounds, at least when you have a huge latino family with a hundred cousins) where centered around big heavy meals, life-events were celebrated with french fries, pizza, burgers and donuts, and sad moments were dealt with by downing entire boxes of oreos with milk.

So, I struggle with that stuff all the time, and will probably continue to experience its pull for the rest of my life.

Very good point. I'm not sure what the dosing is for alcohol's hormetic effect(s), but I would assume it's under the liver's metabolic rate for ethanol (~10mL/hr I think) which is less than what most people drink in a session

Most other drugs don't really hit a stimulus point that's beneficial in any way (other than like strychnine which I doubt anyone uses)

The psychological effects are also a very significant part of the problem for sure.

I like Key-lime pie. The store has whole pies for $6, or 2 slices for $4. Common sense and thrift say buy the whole pie, but I know myself. If it's there I'll keep picking at it until I've eaten the whole thing, so I by the 2 slices and avoid temptation until my next shopping run. I'm the same way with alcohol. If it's in the house I'm having a drink. I control it to the degree that I only drink after I'm home from work, and on my days off, but once I start I don't stop till it's time to sleep. My last physical showed elevated Liver enzymes and a ultrasound showed a fatty liver, so I've stopped drinking alcohol completely. My point is that it is a personal matter that each of us has to determine for ourselves. Know yourself and how it effects you, then decide what works for you and do it.

I recently became a certified sommelier (wine/spirits expert). Prior to this, I drank maybe one ot two servings of alcohol every few months. Since completing my program, and starting work at a vineyard, I now drink an average of several servings per day, on most days.

I know that alcoholism is addictive and terribly destructive. I keep on top of it by frequently asking myself: "Is this indulgence or compulsion?"

I believe that responsible indulgence is healthy, but as soon as it turns to compulsion you have a problem. Its similar to the Buddhist concept of loving kindness vs attachment.

What is the Jedi way when it comes to alcohol? If I were to make a call based on the Jedi Path I've been walking, it's that alcohol itself is not inherently bad. It's our behaviour toward it that makes it healthy or destructive. As long as your consumption is in balance with your life and health, then cheers my friend! I'll drink to you and your Path!

At one point, I had a list of every topic where we discussed Jedi attitudes on drugs of every kind, cloaks, robes, and lightsabers. Maybe I should dig that back up.

We just need a superthread/sticky for these oh-so-common topics (including "physical temple?")

In the UK we have a massive drinking culture, its how we bond with others, its how we relax, its how we let loose, its often how we self-medicate (bad idea).

I've heard people talk about how much Brits drink in compared to the rest of the world, but never really realise the difference until I'm in another country. I've just come back from a week in Italy and had expected to have a lot to wine whilst I was out there. I think I had 2 glasses with 2 meals the whole week, is stark contrast to what I'm used to haha!

In terms of Jediism, I see no issue with drinking alcohol. I think that's a matter for the individual in question. However, I would say that (like everything) it should be done in moderation, and people should know their limits.

As a side note, I do Sober for October every year and I think that does a good job of reminding me that I don't actually need a drink to have a good time. It also saves me a lot of money haha!

When I drink I need at least 5 beers or shots to feel anything at all from them. If I want to get tipsy, make it 10. If I want to get drunk, somewhere around 15. Consequently it’s an expensive habit, and when I drink around people from other parts of the country they think I’ve had too much before I feel anything at all, so many of them end up thinking I’m an alcoholic. It’s not like I’m overweight or anything, that’s just how alcohol effects me. If my tolerance were any higher I’d have to drink half a bottle of whiskey to even get a buzz. I usually don’t waste my money on drinks because they do so little to me. Especially when I go to a concert or something, it’s $11 for a beer. I make $11/hour, but some of that doesn’t come to me, so I’d have to work multiple hours to afford one beer at a concert and I’d need to spend close to $60 to feel anything, closer to $40 in most bars. It’s not worth it. I don’t even drink often, maybe once every other month, and only at home so I can afford it.

I wouldn’t say my mind is impaired until around the 10-12 servings mark, so I don’t see it as harmful to me, just a waste of cash.

TheDude wrote: When I drink I need at least 5 beers or shots to feel anything at all from them. If I want to get tipsy, make it 10. If I want to get drunk, somewhere around 15. Consequently it’s an expensive habit, and when I drink around people from other parts of the country they think I’ve had too much before I feel anything at all, so many of them end up thinking I’m an alcoholic. It’s not like I’m overweight or anything, that’s just how alcohol effects me. If my tolerance were any higher I’d have to drink half a bottle of whiskey to even get a buzz. I usually don’t waste my money on drinks because they do so little to me. Especially when I go to a concert or something, it’s $11 for a beer. I make $11/hour, but some of that doesn’t come to me, so I’d have to work multiple hours to afford one beer at a concert and I’d need to spend close to $60 to feel anything, closer to $40 in most bars. It’s not worth it. I don’t even drink often, maybe once every other month, and only at home so I can afford it.

I wouldn’t say my mind is impaired until around the 10-12 servings mark, so I don’t see it as harmful to me, just a waste of cash.

You are cordially invited to Ecuador. I will get you drunk for less than $20. :laugh:

I think the biggest drug of all is sugar

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/aug/25/is-sugar-really-as-addictive-as-cocaine-scientists-row-over-effect-on-body-and-brain

I think part of the discussion, should be about how we define drugs or say that something is harmful or bad. We accept a lot of things as so society and we accept the consequences. In many cases, the addition is so powerful that it is better to legalize the substance because people are going to get it anyway and making it illegal creates a black market and other criminal behavior that fills prisons and leads to abandoned children and many other issues.

Alcohol is widely accepted now. And the biggest thing it seems is that you shouldn't drink and drive. Providing people with a drug and setting the boundaries in which they can use it, doesn't make it safe... but it does make it safer. A bartender can take your key, pace your drinks, or keep offering you water.

But when it comes to sugar...

sugar though...

You could fill your entire shopping cart with endless amounts of sugar, enough to kill you 10 times over, and easily walk out. We don't think of sugar content like we do alcohol content. We give sugar to kids knowing they might get a "sugar high". And many people are suffering from Diabetes which is a direct effect of sugar in the blood. America is 17th on the global BMI scale but I wonder what it would be if it wasn't for California and its more health conscious culture?

And unlike alcohol our bodies basically store excess sugar as fat just in case. And people often eat (sugar) for the same reasons they drink alcohol but its a whole lot cheaper. So as much as I hate to play whataboutism we have to think of drugs in different terms. What makes something a drug?

ZealotX wrote: What makes something a drug?

It's non-nutritious and alters the organism's current functionality. Generally, they're also incredibly potent and aren't created by the body itself.

Sugar isn't a drug, it can be addictive but really anything can.

Rex wrote:

ZealotX wrote: What makes something a drug?

It's non-nutritious and alters the organism's current functionality. Generally, they're also incredibly potent and aren't created by the body itself.

Sugar isn't a drug, it can be addictive but really anything can.

it wouldn't be easy but it is possible to overdose on sugar. also it has very potent cumulative effects. Does that count? Also, the white refined sugar is what I'm talking about and it is not like the natural sugar in fruit or the glucose created by the body. Sugar can produce effects like speed or what about drugs that make people feel good?

Beyond immediate gratification, very few health effects of sugar are positive. Eating too much sugar can affect the brain and body, including increased risk for cavities, weight gain, cognitive decline, and increased risk for a disease.

https://maxliving.com/healthy-articles/how-sugar-affects-your-immune-system

couldn't this possibly qualify?

No, you can literally OD on anything eventually.
It's not healthy for you, but neither is cardboard and no one thinks cardboard is a drug

I'm not defending sugar. I cut soda and a lot of junk food out of my diet. It's just that sugar is ultimately made of a basic carbohydrate: a nutritional building block for energy.

Rex wrote:

ZealotX wrote: What makes something a drug?

It's non-nutritious and alters the organism's current functionality. Generally, they're also incredibly potent and aren't created by the body itself..

What if it's nutritious for the mind

Not all sugars are the same obviously. Refined sugar seems more potent then raw in regards to its impact in the body.

Better to think of things by their function in the body firstly, other then the impact on the senses IMO. The poor liver has a hard life constantly repairing itself, so regular alcohol consumption seems a bit unfair to it from this perspective.

The way drug is defined seems to vary a bit by different uses of it, locally where I live it refers more to illegal recreational substances, and so the association to drug is often made to legal substances to reinforce the dangers of them. Versus 'medicine' or supplements depending on how specific it's targeting is on action seemingly.