Cancel Culture

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05 Sep 2019 04:31 #343311 by Rex
Replied by Rex on topic Cancel Culture
Cancel culture exists because people vote with their money in some form or another. And while (for Americans) the first amendment protects free speech (which has limits) from governmental reprisal, it doesn't protect you from anything else. Businesses have the right to refuse business on any basis that isn't a protected class.

I don't know the details of any of your case studies, but none of them sound unethical at first glance.

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TM: Carlos Martinez
ὁ δὲ ἀμυχηδόν νεξέταστος βίος γίγνομαι βιωτὸς ἀνθρώπῳ
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05 Sep 2019 04:32 #343312 by Rosalyn J
Replied by Rosalyn J on topic Cancel Culture
Cancel Culture right now is due to the growing pains of living in a global society with individual or group mindsets.

It will right itself, but I believe it will get worse before it gets better
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05 Sep 2019 10:12 - 05 Sep 2019 10:13 #343315 by Kobos
Replied by Kobos on topic Cancel Culture

Kelrax Lorcken wrote: My post was actually directed at Deimos, I apologize for not making that clear, but I do have to appreciate the effort you put into your responses.

To answer your question on chik fil a and it's troubles, this isn't a new issue for them, and as for sources, I could cherry pick a source to share, or I could just point out that Google is free, and trust those inclined to use that to come to an informed decision. Wikipedia is a good first stop, though.

I'm not trying to make this as condescending as it sounds, the last time I was sharing link/sources I got called lazy for it. Opinions are of dubious value/merit when they are uninformed/misinformed. I'm really not trying to get drawn into the actual debate, so the less I do for the actual participants here, the better.


I apologize about taking that on the defensive. I actually appreciate your comment, I am going to look into some of the view points you shared, Do not question when you share, you did not derail the thread you added to the discussion :) and that is why we are all here. Solutions come from derailed threads for the record. And If I had a dollar for every thread I took off the rails I would be a richer man. Appreciate your own opinions and viewpoints(we do), but stay open minded.

Much Love, Respect and Peace,
Kobos

Fighting what you cannot see, will only lead you to lash out with violence towards everyone. Know your enemy, and you may find yourself a friend.

You can act real rude and totally removed
And I can act like an imbecile- Men without hats

TM:JLSpinner
TB:Nakis
Last edit: 05 Sep 2019 10:13 by Kobos.
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05 Sep 2019 12:31 #343319 by steamboat28
Replied by steamboat28 on topic Cancel Culture
Cancel culture, while extreme, is nothing more than the concept of a boycott over moral and ethical issues.
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05 Sep 2019 15:35 - 05 Sep 2019 15:36 #343327 by Tmattos93
Replied by Tmattos93 on topic Cancel Culture
I wouldn't agree that cancel culture in today's society is "okay", so much as it is more accessible than ever. Throughout history we have seen division and schisms and battles fought over opposing ideologies. Organizations and armies, whole cultures have banded together in an attempt to squash or obliterate their opposition. In this age of technology that allows quick and easy communication between the masses, it is far easier than ever to organize a group to "boycott" a product, idea, or even a group of people. The privilege of mass communication, in my opinion, is being abused when "cancel culture" runs rampant, as I personally see too often (in the real world as well as on social media.) People want to be heard, they want to be understood, they want to belong. Jumping on the bandwagon as a means of finding acceptance and belonging, pursuing power over others via a greater collective, is a tale as old as time. There is an inherent "us vs. them" mentality that for reasons I could not hope to explain has purveyed and at this point exploded.

I saw a British comedian once joke about how Americans' identity is so centered around what they hate and what they stand against that nobody in the country is actually certain of what they love or even like. Getting back to this idea of "extremes", I think it is quicker to elicit an extreme negative response than it is an extreme positive response. I think media portrayal has a lot to do with the sensationalism experienced online and in the home, and I don't think it's okay.

I believe even a single individual has the opportunity to promote, work towards, and eventually establish unity and understanding. I believe that we as Jedi have a responsibility to set the example and encourage discussion, to find alternatives to "cancelling" one thing in favor of another. Compromise isn't the quickest or easiest goal, but it is the most worthwhile (from my point of view.) I think people just need to accept that being uncomfortable is a natural part of life, and we shouldn't expect to be 100% comfortable with what everyone else wants to say or think or do 100% of the time. There are billions of other people on this planet outside ourselves, and to try and deny them what they want to say think or do because it doesn't fall in line with our own objectives is not only unfair, but I think immoral.

I have lost friends and family, I have had to limit my contact with coworkers outside our office because of this combative mentality. It drives people apart. It breaks down communication. It is counterproductive in the worst way. I hate to bring it up...but wasn't there something in "The Last Jedi" about saving what you love rather than killing what you hate? I think society as a whole needs to take a step back and look at the bigger picture, invest in the things we love rather than neglect them because we're too busy hating something.

Let's "cancel" cancel culture! lol...
Last edit: 05 Sep 2019 15:36 by Tmattos93.
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05 Sep 2019 15:55 - 05 Sep 2019 15:57 #343328 by ZealotX
Replied by ZealotX on topic Cancel Culture

Deimos wrote: This is a question I'm asking because I am genuinely curious. Why is cancel culture growing? For those who don't know, cancel culture is, from my understanding, where someone has dirt dug up on them, such as the whole James Charles allegations of him trying to convert straight males, which I believe was proven false, and thus said entity becomes "canceled". I ask this, because I watch someone by the name of Tim Pool. Recently he attended an after party for an event, not sure the specifics but it was centrists and libertarians, and there were people harassing the location and/or sending phone calls to the brewery calling them "fringe far righters" as Tim put it. Why is this considered okay? You see, Tim asked some of the people why they didn't stand up and say "Enough", and while he didn't say each person had the same reason, he did speculate it's because the activists are threatening violence, and that they are scared as a result. Hell there is a Chik-fil-a on a college campus that a group wants shut down for fear of safety. Huh? In addition, San Antonion Airport BANNED Chik-fil-a for donations to religious organizations. I'm not saying it's right or wrong to do that, but why is it seemingly okay for Google to donate to politicians then? So my question, again, is why is this okay in today's age?


Things that show results have a tendency to grow. Cancel Culture is basically a moralistic market force of capitalism. It's basically away of fighting back against someone or some organization negatively affecting others but who can be negatively impacted financially.

The thing with anything is that its relative like Goldilocks. There will be people who use it too little, too much, and people who will use it just the right amount. Fox was basically getting away with murder (metaphorically) because of the propaganda machine that was pro-alternative facts and conspiracies. It was like Fox hosts kept testing the waters to see how far they could go before someone said "woah, stop, that's racist!". And because it was a big giant corporation people found only one way to fight back; to hold them in check. And that was to call advertisers. When advertisers start dropping off there is always a chance the show will be cancelled so at the very least a lot of people have gotten suspended. And these are people who make millions of dollars a year.

So cancel culture works.

It was amazing to me to see the white nationalists parade themselves without hoods because, as its been said before, boycotting isn't new. Did they realize they could lose their jobs? I think cancelling someone goes a bit farther than just boycotting because I think its more of a lobby against that person or organization. Lobbying is how many laws get made and unmade. And it has always been based on money. It's just usually big money from donors affecting the votes of politicians. But in this case its more like a check on the donors, saying but we wont give you money if you keep supporting these people or these ideas. I think its an excellent use of democracy and capitalism. But again... its not always going to be used correctly and some people are going to get targeted who I don't think deserve it.

For example... Bill Maher is notorious for controversy. He's a comedian and a host. I've always liked him. But he expressed an opinion Rashida Talib didn't like and she called for a boycott of his show. I think that's ridiculous.

"Some people have one move only: boycott. Cancel. Make-go-away," Maher wrote, apparently echoing phrases toddlers use. "But here’s the thing, the house voted 318 to 17 to condemn the #BDS movement, including 93% of Dems. Does Tlaib want to boycott 93% of her own party?"

what he said that Talib wanted him boycotted for?

"BDS a bull---- purity test by people who want to appear woke but actually slept through history class,"

And of course he backed up that statement
Warning: Spoiler! [ Click to expand ]

www.foxnews.com/media/bill-maher-responds-tlaib-boycott-show

I don't fully agree with either of them but I don't think expressing a different opinion should automatically get you cancelled. I think that's going way too far. There needs to be balance. Now if the only thing that person will hear or feel is losing money then yes... But if you just don't like what someone said and don't feel like engaging them in debate, then no.
Last edit: 05 Sep 2019 15:57 by ZealotX.
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05 Sep 2019 16:09 #343329 by Uzima Moto
Replied by Uzima Moto on topic Cancel Culture
My issue is when it crosses that line of being a personal choice (however informed it may or may not be) to societal or legal pressure.. usually harming people who've done no harm to others..

But I don't think it's happening without purpose or by accident. News Media could very well deescalate these type of situations. I believe it is their responsibility in fact. The fact that they encourage the habit to demonize "others" points to underlying interests invested in the dominance of one set of ideals over others.. agenda pushers.. whether those ideas are "progressive" or "conservative"..

But I believe people are susceptible to this because it's nature to find safety in what's familiar.. what's known and relatable.. people tend to fight or hide from "the shadows" instead of understanding them.. until they reach that inward maturity, they won't understand how to truly sit down and have open discussions..

I admire the old guy who sat down with KKK members. Some of them had never even spoken to a black man in their lives. Others were pressured by family to join.. it underlies the truth of the reality of the individuality we exist AS instead of the "collectives" we exist IN.. That is what I believe the "Light Side" truly looks like, and it gets real results.. going around punching "Nazis", those who haven't attacked anyone, isn't Light or Justice. It's Dark and only serves to embolden those they wanted to snuff out.. creating further imbalance in society..

.... but I don't think this is by accident.. America in particular is being pushed towards Civil Unrest and has been for awhile now..

Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem
By the sword we seek peace, but peace only under liberty.
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05 Sep 2019 18:05 #343339 by ZealotX
Replied by ZealotX on topic Cancel Culture

Uzima Moto wrote:
I admire the old guy who sat down with KKK members. Some of them had never even spoken to a black man in their lives. Others were pressured by family to join.. it underlies the truth of the reality of the individuality we exist AS instead of the "collectives" we exist IN.. That is what I believe the "Light Side" truly looks like, and it gets real results.. going around punching "Nazis", those who haven't attacked anyone, isn't Light or Justice. It's Dark and only serves to embolden those they wanted to snuff out.. creating further imbalance in society..

.... but I don't think this is by accident.. America in particular is being pushed towards Civil Unrest and has been for awhile now..


YES!

www.npr.org/2017/08/20/544861933/how-one...-give-up-their-robes

This is kind of what I'm talking about!

Think about it... as much as the IP starts out talking about the hero's journey... this guy, this non-Jedi, without any excuses and without any organization behind him, convinced 200 people to change their mind on an issue that some of us don't even want to hear people out on.

This is what we should be training to do. It's not about bashing people over the head with a lightsaber until they, by force, succumb to our will. It's about negotiating with people, hearing their side and presenting your own, and figuring out why they personally believe that side and if they can personally see your side. The goal doesn't have to be to change everyone but rather to present the strongest case possible for the ideals and virtues that Jedi hold sacred. That is a way of fighting without bloodshed. It's conversion; not to join our religion, but join us in being for the same virtues and ideals. That's how you change the world. One person at a time if you have to. The more people doing it the more effective it becomes. I believe that many of these people, including actual Nazis, are simply in a group because they think that the members of that group care about them and no one else does. And when we don't care we toss people aside and ignore their problems and ignore the reasons why they hate and why they commit mass murder and why they commit suicide and why they cut themselves and why they hate their parents and why they bully other kids. It's not unheard of for religions to have outreach programs to help people in their community. It wouldn't be unheard of if we created a program as well.

And who knows... maybe there's an opposite to cancel culture, some positive method we could come up with that helped make a difference in people's lives, giving instead of taking away, just because they've done something we think is Jedi-like and heroic and behavior we'd like to see more of like a lottery for good people.
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05 Sep 2019 18:40 #343343 by Kobos
Replied by Kobos on topic Cancel Culture
Just an opinion, but the anti-cancel culture that effects change is built by actually connecting with people. Know the people and see things through their eyes and you are much more likely to change their point of view. This is what Mr. Davis did to get these men to disavow the KKK. People need to see that it is in fact people, with fears, emotions, thoughts that they are breaking instead of the idea itself.

Personally I believe, as in my earlier post that this is a major reason we see such a divide and ideological battles. We are not at war with each other, we've just been told we are and taken it from there.

Much Love,
Kobos

Fighting what you cannot see, will only lead you to lash out with violence towards everyone. Know your enemy, and you may find yourself a friend.

You can act real rude and totally removed
And I can act like an imbecile- Men without hats

TM:JLSpinner
TB:Nakis
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05 Sep 2019 20:08 #343351 by ZealotX
Replied by ZealotX on topic Cancel Culture

Kobos wrote: Just an opinion, but the anti-cancel culture that effects change is built by actually connecting with people. Know the people and see things through their eyes and you are much more likely to change their point of view. This is what Mr. Davis did to get these men to disavow the KKK. People need to see that it is in fact people, with fears, emotions, thoughts that they are breaking instead of the idea itself.

Personally I believe, as in my earlier post that this is a major reason we see such a divide and ideological battles. We are not at war with each other, we've just been told we are and taken it from there.

Much Love,
Kobos


Thank you for sharing your wisdom.
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