Cancel Culture

More
04 Sep 2019 22:54 #343268 by Deimos
Cancel Culture was created by Deimos
This is a question I'm asking because I am genuinely curious. Why is cancel culture growing? For those who don't know, cancel culture is, from my understanding, where someone has dirt dug up on them, such as the whole James Charles allegations of him trying to convert straight males, which I believe was proven false, and thus said entity becomes "canceled". I ask this, because I watch someone by the name of Tim Pool. Recently he attended an after party for an event, not sure the specifics but it was centrists and libertarians, and there were people harassing the location and/or sending phone calls to the brewery calling them "fringe far righters" as Tim put it. Why is this considered okay? You see, Tim asked some of the people why they didn't stand up and say "Enough", and while he didn't say each person had the same reason, he did speculate it's because the activists are threatening violence, and that they are scared as a result. Hell there is a Chik-fil-a on a college campus that a group wants shut down for fear of safety. Huh? In addition, San Antonion Airport BANNED Chik-fil-a for donations to religious organizations. I'm not saying it's right or wrong to do that, but why is it seemingly okay for Google to donate to politicians then? So my question, again, is why is this okay in today's age?

-Dei'mos
The following user(s) said Thank You: Kobos

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
04 Sep 2019 23:24 #343274 by steamboat28
Replied by steamboat28 on topic Cancel Culture
Because cancelling someone or something is a form of shame, one of the greatest motivators to change behavior.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Kobos, Rex, Kelrax Lorcken

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
04 Sep 2019 23:41 #343281 by Uzima Moto
Replied by Uzima Moto on topic Cancel Culture
Because people are bigots and want others to think like them.. and will try to destroy your livelyhood just for being different.. it's cultural warfare..

Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem
By the sword we seek peace, but peace only under liberty.
The following user(s) said Thank You: ren, Kobos

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
04 Sep 2019 23:50 #343282 by Deimos
Replied by Deimos on topic Cancel Culture
Steam: But when does it reach the point of too far? I, personally, think calling a brewery can calling them far right for simply hosting an after party which consisted of centrists and libertarians and harassing them, making other business afraid of violence, too far and too illogical given how mundane the "issue" is in this scenario. Now an example where it was more appropriate would be ProJared before his recent video where he "had receipts", given he had no foothold before that video.

Uzima: I agree which is why I hate the media for only showing the extreme ends of things. Most people, from my perspective, are normal people but the media favors the views from the extreme sides.

-Dei'mos
The following user(s) said Thank You: Kobos, Uzima Moto

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
05 Sep 2019 02:32 - 05 Sep 2019 02:50 #343295 by Kobos
Replied by Kobos on topic Cancel Culture

Deimos wrote: This is a question I'm asking because I am genuinely curious. Why is cancel culture growing? For those who don't know, cancel culture is, from my understanding, where someone has dirt dug up on them, such as the whole James Charles allegations of him trying to convert straight males, which I believe was proven false, and thus said entity becomes "canceled". I ask this, because I watch someone by the name of Tim Pool. Recently he attended an after party for an event, not sure the specifics but it was centrists and libertarians, and there were people harassing the location and/or sending phone calls to the brewery calling them "fringe far righters" as Tim put it. Why is this considered okay? You see, Tim asked some of the people why they didn't stand up and say "Enough", and while he didn't say each person had the same reason, he did speculate it's because the activists are threatening violence, and that they are scared as a result. Hell there is a Chik-fil-a on a college campus that a group wants shut down for fear of safety. Huh? In addition, San Antonion Airport BANNED Chik-fil-a for donations to religious organizations. I'm not saying it's right or wrong to do that, but why is it seemingly okay for Google to donate to politicians then? So my question, again, is why is this okay in today's age?


So I meant to sound off on this a little earlier. So, this isn't really a new phenomenon, nor is it exclusive to any section of society. So in order to see what I am saying let's look back to the 60' and 70's . Rock and Roll saw a lot of resistance from the "Moral Majority". People protested to have rock and roll shut down. Now, this did have some national spread but the majority of the groups acted independently fed off information from more localized news sources. So, what is the difference between this type of cultural change resistance and what's happening now?

Well I have a few theories that in action together make some sense to me. 1. Information is abound these days, there is a lot of business in clicks, views, and subscriptions. How do you draw people in, shock them, do it by showing the worst of the worst of these individuals and equate them with the normal person involved in any situation. That way every story is shocking and people stay glued to the information you are putting out.

2. People communicate much more regularly on a global level, so for example a situation that may happen in one state and be properly resolved through rule of law can be explained to a wide audience, however, to get global clicks you are going to spread the one's that were not. It's always what is being shown (note, I used shown for a reason, because there are in fact editorial choices made), people used to rage on Fox for it when CNN was centrist information based. This leads me into my next one.

3. The "subtle" editorial approach taken by most media outlets. I mean that simply put if you ever watch new on the TV (or videos, and papers) these days they like to do something I have heard termed as "News Analysis". To me when I am looking for information I just want the information to make my own opinion. However, there is always a point of view, this is natural. What is not natural is that this is literally the only way news is reported now (local stories do not tend to have this quality, read about your school board in the local paper to check.) Another issue with the "news analysis" is that we have now established shows that don't say what they think about the information but literally tell you the information is this. So, we get an extra layer of editorial view skew, often times this serves to dehumanize people,(in the early 2000's Fox was notorious for this) because of what is left out. It creates echo chambers in mass media, so you have six people, 2 "experts" saying the same thing based on the same study instead of a large variety of studies. So I think a good question to ask any news report you watch is, what is being left out? And why is it being left out?

4. We are too busy fighting each other to care about collateral damage by delayed corrections, omissions, or a non-confirmed source. So, then when something like Chick-a-Filet happens. The actual support for the Anti-LGBT came from 2 individual employees, this was corrected after the first release of this information about 3 months later.(one a middle manager, and another a lower level executive.) that put money to this organization. When people got justifiably pissed instead of assuming this is the individuals' who donates opinion it must be the company. The company refused to budge on allowing their employees to speak their mind (the donating individuals) via money (as we all have the right to do) and so it was assumed they support the opinion as a company. It didn't help Chick-a-Filet that the are an corporation whose that's roots are christian based, so the observe Sunday off ECT, This gave the optic that they must absolutely be in support. So, the conclusion is easy to draw and pass on. Now as somebody who worked for a major corporation, they do not care about morality, they care about making money. It is literally the only reason they exist, and it is counter intuitive to alienate potential customers. So, they don't, it is individuals that make it look that way. That said if we are going to fire or hold a company/business responsible for every employee's views, it will continue to escalate based on any chain of communication or information that reaches different groups.

5. Political based boycotts don't work because the other 50% will just hop on the buy it to make the other-side mad, so what's the next step if that doesn't work? Appeal to law. that's what is happening to Chick-a-Filet in the scenario you mentioned. Now, when appeal to law is not sound it also doesn't work (I personally believe you cannot legislate morality, it just doesn't work and hasn't worked....ever.) So if you can't appeal to law, then well what do you do? This is where the violence and threats come in IMHO.

Now these are just some ideas as to why this is a current cultural phenomenon. Now as for the event in your last comment, I mean Daryll Davis was supposed to be there. The African American responsible for deescalating many Klan Members from that view point so why it was attacked seems like a case of targeted ignorance, because a few controversial figures were included in the event's line up (because it was designed to get multiple people with many views to speak to each other and debate on the merit of their ideas) and this caused people to see it a spreading hate. Hate is also a 2 way street. I abhor violence at this point in my life, I have just had enough. The thing is it gets clicks so it's every where and it's got everyone (both sides of the current political climate) think they are literally fighting Nazis (there are very very few actual Nazis and I think we all agree that they should be rebuked). This is the importance of open discussion though, it makes us make a connection with a person and then have the grounds and ability to refute their views. The thing is with the shaming ideal though is more popular though, it's easier, and you do not have to make a connection and see a person not just an opinion. By doing this you do not connect to the suffering you also cause by carrying though on said individuals. Sadly this idea accidentally only emboldens the opposing views because well people like to troll IRL and online, and people see the need to defend themselves and since they are now tied to one individual opinion they now have to defend that opinion even if they don't fully support it.

I personally enjoyed reading a lot about societal shifts in history like the French Revolution, The Russian Revolution and the Chinese Revolution. So, these are just some observations and ideas on this based on that knowledge from college. Sorry for the essay but this is a big question.

People protesting for freedom in Hong Kong were waving Trump and American flags, are they Nazis (because of the trump flags?) or were they making an appeal to a society that has much more freedom of speech than they do? Is shaming them appropriate?

But, what do you guys think?

Much Love, Respect and Peace
Kobos

Fighting what you cannot see, will only lead you to lash out with violence towards everyone. Know your enemy, and you may find yourself a friend.

You can act real rude and totally removed
And I can act like an imbecile- Men without hats

TM:JLSpinner
TB:Nakis
Last edit: 05 Sep 2019 02:50 by Kobos. Reason: grammar
The following user(s) said Thank You: Uzima Moto, Deimos

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
05 Sep 2019 02:50 #343297 by Kelrax Lorcken
Replied by Kelrax Lorcken on topic Cancel Culture
I told myself that I wasn't going to get involved, BUT, I think you could benefit from a suggestion or two, and some actual further information.

So... I'm going to start by suggesting you make friends with "Google", if for no other reason than being a little better informed on a subject if you insist on a discussion.

Case in point: I think you should research "chik fil a controversy", because the issue is not merely a matter of donating to religious organizations, in itself.

Next suggestion: Yes, the mainstream media loves to be sensational- that industry decided it wanted to be an entertainment medium a long time ago, and we're coming to realize why that is a problem. It is also a very different thing than the parts of the OP that prompted that observation. If that's what you actually had in mind, than the OP is a little confusing.

Next suggestion: framing. Were threats actually made, or was this another instance of people FEELING threatened by the mere presence of people who are willing to criticize/disagree with them? The latter has been going around, lately, particularly among conservative figures. Avoid using suggestion to incorrectly frame something a certain way, even on accident. This also ties back to my first suggestion- speculation is a poor substitute for being informed.

Final suggestion: don't represent things as similar/the same unless they actually are. Demonstrators showing up and delivering their message is not violence, with rare exception.

And try to avoid these issues in the same post wherein you admit to having formed opinions on an issue while not actually understanding the issue (again, by your own admittance).

Kelrax "Stormcaller" Lorcken, Jedi Navigator
May The Force Guide You
www.templeofthejediorder.org/forum/47-Jo...-stormcaller?start=0
The following user(s) said Thank You: Kobos, ZealotX

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
05 Sep 2019 03:05 - 05 Sep 2019 03:07 #343298 by Kobos
Replied by Kobos on topic Cancel Culture

Kelrax Lorcken wrote: I told myself that I wasn't going to get involved, BUT, I think you could benefit from a suggestion or two, and some actual further information.

So... I'm going to start by suggesting you make friends with "Google", if for no other reason than being a little better informed on a subject if you insist on a discussion.

Case in point: I think you should research "chik fil a controversy", because the issue is not merely a matter of donating to religious organizations, in itself.

Next suggestion: Yes, the mainstream media loves to be sensational- that industry decided it wanted to be an entertainment medium a long time ago, and we're coming to realize why that is a problem. It is also a very different thing than the parts of the OP that prompted that observation. If that's what you actually had in mind, than the OP is a little confusing.

Next suggestion: framing. Were threats actually made, or was this another instance of people FEELING threatened by the mere presence of people who are willing to criticize/disagree with them? The latter has been going around, lately, particularly among conservative figures. Avoid using suggestion to incorrectly frame something a certain way, even on accident. This also ties back to my first suggestion- speculation is a poor substitute for being informed.

Final suggestion: don't represent things as similar/the same unless they actually are. Demonstrators showing up and delivering their message is not violence, with rare exception.

And try to avoid these issues in the same post wherein you admit to having formed opinions on an issue while not actually understanding the issue (again, by your own admittance).


I would ask you for your source on the Chik-a-Filet situation I would be more than happy to check it out if there is other information. Also, I was simply trying to theorize on the question the OP asked, why is this more idea more prevalent today?

As for the situation and threats, you can check out the video covering the threats here, :https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1NN7Yk6qWjY

Second I do have IMHO a decently informed opinion (that doesn't mean I am right), I purposely tried not to touch on issues because I am trying to discuss the actual phenomenon now being presented as "cancel culture". The reasons as for why are separate from the issues, making one in the same doesn't address the culture it just loops back to discussing the issues instead of the OP's question again IMHO.

One of my points is that the violence is rare (we agree on that), but is it not true that because of the rare there is a drive to judge quickly based off these limited instances?

Much Love, Respect and Peace,
Kobos

Fighting what you cannot see, will only lead you to lash out with violence towards everyone. Know your enemy, and you may find yourself a friend.

You can act real rude and totally removed
And I can act like an imbecile- Men without hats

TM:JLSpinner
TB:Nakis
Last edit: 05 Sep 2019 03:07 by Kobos.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Kelrax Lorcken

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
05 Sep 2019 04:10 - 05 Sep 2019 04:16 #343307 by Kelrax Lorcken
Replied by Kelrax Lorcken on topic Cancel Culture

Kobos wrote:

Kelrax Lorcken wrote: I told myself that I wasn't going to get involved, BUT, I think you could benefit from a suggestion or two, and some actual further information.

So... I'm going to start by suggesting you make friends with "Google", if for no other reason than being a little better informed on a subject if you insist on a discussion.

Case in point: I think you should research "chik fil a controversy", because the issue is not merely a matter of donating to religious organizations, in itself.

Next suggestion: Yes, the mainstream media loves to be sensational- that industry decided it wanted to be an entertainment medium a long time ago, and we're coming to realize why that is a problem. It is also a very different thing than the parts of the OP that prompted that observation. If that's what you actually had in mind, than the OP is a little confusing.

Next suggestion: framing. Were threats actually made, or was this another instance of people FEELING threatened by the mere presence of people who are willing to criticize/disagree with them? The latter has been going around, lately, particularly among conservative figures. Avoid using suggestion to incorrectly frame something a certain way, even on accident. This also ties back to my first suggestion- speculation is a poor substitute for being informed.

Final suggestion: don't represent things as similar/the same unless they actually are. Demonstrators showing up and delivering their message is not violence, with rare exception.

And try to avoid these issues in the same post wherein you admit to having formed opinions on an issue while not actually understanding the issue (again, by your own admittance).


I would ask you for your source on the Chik-a-Filet situation I would be more than happy to check it out if there is other information. Also, I was simply trying to theorize on the question the OP asked, why is this more idea more prevalent today?

As for the situation and threats, you can check out the video covering the threats here, :https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1NN7Yk6qWjY

Second I do have IMHO a decently informed opinion (that doesn't mean I am right), I purposely tried not to touch on issues because I am trying to discuss the actual phenomenon now being presented as "cancel culture". The reasons as for why are separate from the issues, making one in the same doesn't address the culture it just loops back to discussing the issues instead of the OP's question again IMHO.

One of my points is that the violence is rare (we agree on that), but is it not true that because of the rare there is a drive to judge quickly based off these limited instances?

Much Love, Respect and Peace,
Kobos


My post was actually directed at Deimos, I apologize for not making that clear, but I do have to appreciate the effort you put into your responses.

To answer your question on chik fil a and it's troubles, this isn't a new issue for them, and as for sources, I could cherry pick a source to share, or I could just point out that Google is free, and trust those inclined to use that to come to an informed decision. Wikipedia is a good first stop, though.

I'm not trying to make this as condescending as it sounds, the last time I was sharing link/sources I got called lazy for it. Opinions are of dubious value/merit when they are uninformed/misinformed. I'm really not trying to get drawn into the actual debate, so the less I do for the actual participants here, the better.

Kelrax "Stormcaller" Lorcken, Jedi Navigator
May The Force Guide You
www.templeofthejediorder.org/forum/47-Jo...-stormcaller?start=0
Last edit: 05 Sep 2019 04:16 by Kelrax Lorcken. Reason: I wish to have both of my posts in this thread deleted for derailing the discussion
The following user(s) said Thank You: Kobos

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
05 Sep 2019 04:18 #343309 by Kelrax Lorcken
Replied by Kelrax Lorcken on topic Cancel Culture
I've derailed the discussion, I think, and would appreciate if my posts could be removed?

Kelrax "Stormcaller" Lorcken, Jedi Navigator
May The Force Guide You
www.templeofthejediorder.org/forum/47-Jo...-stormcaller?start=0
The following user(s) said Thank You: Kobos

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
05 Sep 2019 04:24 #343310 by dragons406
Replied by dragons406 on topic Cancel Culture
I'm not a member, but I'd like to suggest not removing posts. I think we can all benefit from someone's thoughts, even if they themselves think it has come to derail or change the course of a conversation. All that does is lead to a deletion of historical records that, while might not prove to hold value in and of themselves, can serve as lessons learned for not just the people making the commentary, but also from those of us who are new and could benefit from seeing people struggle with differing and shifting opinions. Sorry for the run-on sentence there, but I'd like to see all posts, the nice and the ugly, to serve as a historical record so that all of us can learn from each other's mistakes, and maybe not repeat them? Hopefully this doesn't come across as pointless to the discussion at hand, but just wanted to throw my 2 cents in there.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Kobos

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Moderators: KobosBrick