Can't be a Jedi if you support Trump...?

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05 Dec 2019 05:16 #346770 by Omhu Cuspor

Br. John wrote: When I was born it was illegal for a white person to marry a black person in 22 states. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-miscegenation...in_the_United_States

The US Supreme Court struck down these laws in 1967. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loving_v._Virginia

Here's an unsettling article from a couple of years ago. NEARLY 20 PERCENT OF AMERICANS THINK INTERRACIAL MARRIAGE IS 'MORALLY WRONG,' POLL FINDS

If someone supports banning interracial marriage (a constitutional amendment making banning legal) can they be a Jedi?


I find this a tough question, especially in light of my recent posts where I endeavored to separate political positions from Jedi ideals. The scenario you described, Br. John, is one that explicitly describes how we apply those ideals to real-world situations.

I have a bias. When younger, I was in a relationship with someone of another race. It was a terrific relationship which, in my immaturity and ego at the time, I botched, to my regret. I can only reflect that if I was in that relationship now, and found myself in a faith where support for banning interracial marriage was not only tolerated but fairly popular, I'd find a new faith. So, I guess I'd say that someone who supports a ban on interracial marriage can still adopt any faith they choose - but depending upon the pervasiveness of that position within the faith, I may no longer be sharing membership in the same tradition.
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05 Dec 2019 05:37 - 05 Dec 2019 05:40 #346771 by Adder
Under what premise would interracial marriage be banned? That would dictate its platform as a policy. Being impartial doesn't have to mean being ambivalent or indecisive.. it just means (to me) being fair in appraising what and why something exists so an analysis can be made on its purpose and impacts.

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Last edit: 05 Dec 2019 05:40 by Adder.
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05 Dec 2019 06:13 - 05 Dec 2019 06:14 #346777 by CaesarEJW

Br. John wrote:

CaesarEJW wrote: "poop" - George Washington


But what paper would he choose?



You are now my favorite person of the day.
And he would purchase the discount double pack!

“Muddy water is best cleared by leaving it alone.” - Alan Watts
Last edit: 05 Dec 2019 06:14 by CaesarEJW.

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05 Dec 2019 06:18 #346778 by CaesarEJW
DON'T BE A DONKEY OR AN ELEPHANT.

BE LIKE THEODORE ROOSEVELT.

BE A BULL MOOSE.

PAID FOR BY BULL MOOSE 2020

“Muddy water is best cleared by leaving it alone.” - Alan Watts
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05 Dec 2019 14:42 #346790 by ZealotX

Br. John wrote: When I was born it was illegal for a white person to marry a black person in 22 states. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-miscegenation...in_the_United_States

The US Supreme Court struck down these laws in 1967. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loving_v._Virginia

Here's an unsettling article from a couple of years ago. NEARLY 20 PERCENT OF AMERICANS THINK INTERRACIAL MARRIAGE IS 'MORALLY WRONG,' POLL FINDS

If someone supports banning interracial marriage (a constitutional amendment making banning legal) can they be a Jedi?


Exactly.

What we're talking about are POLICIES that define this president and HIS interpretation of "MAGA". The question is not "can you be republican" or "can you be conservative". You can be both those things and not even know all of what has happened under Trump because the media on his side typically ignores everything bad because of their fear of losing power if too much of the truth got to Trump's base.

This media propaganda where people on FOX TV shows even try to steer Trump away from danger, shows that they are afraid of the public hearing too much, coming from their pro-Trump platform. And that shows me that they're not proud of this man; that they are capitalizing on ignorance to keep up the support for this man.

But if you know....

And if you choose to support THE MAN, full throated, covering up the truth when necessary, because you like his policies, then that's what's going to raise eyebrows and beg the question being asked in this thread. And while a certain level of pragmatism is acceptable I don't know if you can overlook, just for example, Hitler's views on the Jews, just because you like that he's tough of immigration and feel like he's protecting your ability to get a good paying job. That was a big concern in Nazi Germany and eventually, they saw the Jews doing well and they got jealous. This leads to chants like "Jews will not replace us".

The people who chant these things in the street... The racists... The KKK... "white nationalists".... The Alt Right.... All these names to conceal an agenda with their own interpretation of "MAGA". And one of them, even as we speak, is sitting in the West Wing writing policies he knows Trump will support because that's why Trump hired him and that's why he, Steven Miller, has outlasted almost everyone else; him and Ben Carson who is probably, as we speak, ...asleep.

That's not a voting block I can vote with because I don't want their agenda. But a lot of people do. Because they're still the same people that voted to ban interracial marriage and still see those people as traitors to their race. Those people haven't left the US. They simply vote privately at the booth. And when they hear dog whistles of racism they know who to vote for and support.

Naturally, Trump is going to feed his base. Naturally Trump is going to do things to get re-elected: some conservative things (though his spending is definitely not conservative), some republican things, etc. but of course he's mainly going to do things that benefit one person. Donald Trump. And that's why this is different. That's why this is Trumpism. And it is a danger to the Republican party as well as the nation. The guy is actively seeking foreign interference in our elections just to help himself. With that precedent set, why wouldn't other nations basically start cyber WWIII in order to control who the next president is? And governments like Russia, who have an intelligence apparatus are going to be in a different league from your ordinary Super PAC. This means that potentially other countries will have a bigger voice in American politics than Americans themselves. THAT is the threat to Democracy. They don't need to manufacture enough votes to beat all of us. They just need to move enough to tip the scales. But whether the next president wins by 100 or 10,000... a win is a win. And that's what Trump is telling them. As long as he wins, it's okay. That's how you sell out Democracy.

And so the question is, do our values as Jedi prevent us from supporting, not just these policies, but also this kind of corruption and abuse of power? How much of a blind eye can be turned to such things?

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05 Dec 2019 15:05 - 05 Dec 2019 15:31 #346792 by steamboat28
A Jedi most vote their conscience. We just use or beliefs to inform our daily life, including voting.

Does your candidate support the inherent worth of all life? Does your candidate support the beliefs you carry about Jediism, or the Doctrine?

These are questions you should she for yourself, because while religion shouldn't tell you who to vote for, if you follow your path it should be obvious inside you.

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Last edit: 05 Dec 2019 15:31 by steamboat28.
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05 Dec 2019 15:28 #346796 by ZealotX

steamboat28 wrote: A Jedi most vote their conscience. We just use or beliefs to inform our daily life, including voting.

Does your candidate support the internet worth of all life? Does your candidate support the beliefs you carry about Jediism, or the Doctrine?

These are questions you should she for yourself, because while religion shouldn't tell you who to vote for, if you follow your path it should be obvious inside you.


While this is, of course, true. I think the difficulty is the right hand knowing what the left is doing. If pro-Trump outlets only praise him for the things they agree with as accomplishments he looks like a hero to those viewers/listeners. And while people might have been open to other media outlets and more moderated perspectives, Trump is convincing them that anything bad the media says about him is "fake news". So a person's vote is only as good as the information they're armed with. And if we don't exchange ideas in a way that we can all participate fruitfully then we enable those bubbles to form around people. And they're just trying to protect their own interests as a voter. It's easy for a voter to feel lumped into the wrong crowd because both crowds are voting for the same person.

It's like a couple going to a movie together. One of them may like the movie a little or a lot more than the other. Different parts of that movie appeal to each one of them differently. So I think this is where we have to be understanding and careful in how we communicate our own distaste for the movie so they don't feel alienated like we're about to break up over this movie. Of course we're not. Our relationship is first and foremost. But if I say, nah I'm not gonna see that movie, Harriet, because they went out of their way to make the antagonist a black slave catcher in a movie about a historical protagonist and no record in US history of any free black person becoming a slave catcher, I would hope my partner would at least try to understand and wouldn't want to see it either once they found that out.
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05 Dec 2019 20:09 - 05 Dec 2019 20:10 #346830 by CaesarEJW
To any staunch Trump supporter, all I have to say is....
NEENER NEENER! :silly:

(same to anyone who is loyal to a cult-of-personality or is ideologically-blind)

“Muddy water is best cleared by leaving it alone.” - Alan Watts
Last edit: 05 Dec 2019 20:10 by CaesarEJW.

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05 Dec 2019 20:35 - 05 Dec 2019 21:28 #346831 by OB1Shinobi
Lest ye believe its only those evil white men who want to ban interracial marriage (which is NOT what the poll was asking) lets look at what the actual study actually said.
AS ALWAYS, heres a link, please check for yourself:
d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_up...wy/econTabReport.pdf
Scroll down to page 3 where it says "Moral Acceptability of Various Behaviors" and find "Interracial Marriage". It is the 9th entry.

Regardless of whether they should be legal or not, which of the following things do you personally consider to be morally acceptable or morally wrong?

Interracial marriage
Morally Acceptable:
White: 83%
Black: 82%
Hispanic: 85%
Other: 81%

Morally wrong:
White: 17%
Black 18%
Hispanic: 15%
Other: 19%

Warning: Spoiler! [ Click to expand ]

My heroes had the heart to lose their lives out on a limb
And all I remember is thinking, I want to be like them
Last edit: 05 Dec 2019 21:28 by OB1Shinobi.

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05 Dec 2019 20:42 #346832 by CaesarEJW

OB1Shinobi wrote: Lest ye believe its only those evil white men....

I hate white people.
(for the record, I ain't white, I'm Irish)

“Muddy water is best cleared by leaving it alone.” - Alan Watts
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