Can't be a Jedi if you support Trump...?

More
28 Aug 2019 01:41 - 28 Aug 2019 01:42 #342545 by Deimos
Disclaimer: I don't support Trump. At least in regards to his methods. His concepts, such as strong borders, I do think have merit. His methods, as his boorish nature, I do not support.

With that out of the way, I was watching a channel called Jedi Living. On said channel was a link to his Amazon page for his books, with contained another link to, presumably, his website On said site, someone wrote a piece with the statement, "You cannot be a Jedi and Trump supporter". At first glance, I was skeptical, given that this is a person who does not know me, telling me what I can and can not be. Granted, after some thought, I understood the mindset, given that Trump has said some harsh things over his presidency.

That being said, I do feel the need to mention that this sounds like the Scotsman fallacy. For those unfamiliar, this is where one says some like, "You're not a true X unless you believe Y. Not a verbatim instance, but it still sounds like the fallacy all the same.

What are your thoughts as Jedi on this particular subject matter?

-Deimos

-Dei'mos
Last edit: 28 Aug 2019 01:42 by Deimos.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Kobos, Rex

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
28 Aug 2019 01:54 #342549 by VixensVengeance aka Kyrin Wyldstar
I thought jedi were supposed to be neutral when it came to politics? Only the Sith take sides! Lol

Solve' et coagula
Non serviam
The following user(s) said Thank You: Kobos, Phoenix Vidensia

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
28 Aug 2019 01:58 #342550 by Deimos
The logic is, I assume as the author didn't go too far into Trumps rhetoric, due to his condescending view on immigrants and the people in the middle east. I personally think both political sides have their own issues, so I don't fully support either. I consider my stance more of an "anti-stupid" one if you will, but I do understand how one could state that Jedi beliefs and Trumps don't mix well.

-Dei'mos
The following user(s) said Thank You: Kobos

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
28 Aug 2019 02:08 - 28 Aug 2019 02:08 #342551 by VixensVengeance aka Kyrin Wyldstar
I am not a jedi but my understanding is they dont take political sides. This person you refer to seems to be biased and under informed, neither should be traits of jedi or sith. For example Trump does not have a condescending view of immigrants. Hell he is married to one for fucks sake!!

Solve' et coagula
Non serviam
Last edit: 28 Aug 2019 02:08 by VixensVengeance aka Kyrin Wyldstar.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Kobos, Phoenix Vidensia

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
28 Aug 2019 02:13 #342552 by Deimos
Agreed. However I do think his statements towards hispanics, illegal immigrants specifically, did garner some backlash, to which I see why considering he insinuated that illegal immigrants were all rapists and criminals. DISCLAIMER: I don't think he meant it that way, but regardless that's how the left took that statement. So if this person took it that way as well, then I can understand his mindset. It does sound vaguely Sith Empire-ish in the sense that, at least in SWTOR, the Empire does have a sort of downward look toward aliens.

-Dei'mos
The following user(s) said Thank You: Kobos

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
28 Aug 2019 03:06 #342580 by VixensVengeance aka Kyrin Wyldstar
Intent and reception are two different things to be sure. For example I never took his comments in the way the left took them. I feel like I took them in an unbiased way that was based in realistic expectation. Many immigrants that are willing to break the law to cross a boarder illegally will also have less conviction to not break other laws like rape or murder. Makes sense to me. However the left will use the statement to twist it to their own advantage in their efforts to gain otherwise unjust power. My opinion is that it makes the left no different than those breaking the law to cross the boarder.

Solve' et coagula
Non serviam
The following user(s) said Thank You: Kobos

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
28 Aug 2019 03:23 #342593 by Manu
As for Jedi Living... consider the source. The founder is notoriously left leaning, living in a left leaning state.

You are correct that the statement itself is a fallacy, as it fails to acknowledge the whole range of possibilities as to why someone may or may not choose to support Trump.

If your compassion does not include yourself, it is incomplete.

TM: Bruno Moreira (Kyber) | Public Journal
The following user(s) said Thank You: Kobos, Rex

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
28 Aug 2019 03:32 #342597 by Deimos
Vixens: That being said, I would like to bring up AOC, just for a moment. I happen to watch a conservative YT channel by the name of Hunter Avalone. In one of his videos, he brings up the higher tax debate, which I think is the New Deal, but it could be just AOC in general, so correct me if otherwise. Regardless he points out how the left AND right misuse the higher taxes from the 50's. The left says that the higher taxes, for the rich anyway is what constituted the high economy, which wasn't accounting for other factors, such as not reporting it or simple avoidance. The right, however, claimed that everyone would taxed at the 70% AOC wanted, which is also false.

So stating that only the left has issues is a bit skewed. Assuming that's what you're getting at of course.

Manu: To be fair, he wasn't the one that wrote it. It was just on his site. That being said he does seem left leaning, and CA is very much a left state. I don't really know much about him, as from the videos I've seen he doesn't bring politics in very much, if at all.

-Dei'mos
The following user(s) said Thank You: Manu, Kobos

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
28 Aug 2019 13:24 #342632 by ZealotX

VixensVengeance wrote: I am not a jedi but my understanding is they dont take political sides. This person you refer to seems to be biased and under informed, neither should be traits of jedi or sith. For example Trump does not have a condescending view of immigrants. Hell he is married to one for fucks sake!!


Uh... this is not true.

Obi-Wan Kenobi: Anakin, my allegiance is to the Republic, to democracy! Anakin Skywalker/Darth Vader: If you're not with me, then you're my enemy. Obi-Wan Kenobi: Only a Sith deals in absolutes. I will do what I must.

Loyalty to the Republic would be choosing a side. Ironically, this is the very conversation people tend to use to say Jedi shouldn't take sides, which, in an argument, is taking a side (or "position").

So I think its not saying Jedi don't take sides but rather that Jedi do not assume that either side is 100% correct. So if you apply this to American politics the same way Kenobi applied it to the Republic, Jedi could technically all choose the same political party if they wanted to. At least this idea is not precluded. I'm not saying all Jedi should. But in working together towards the same end, canon Jedi always seemed more like their own party but used whatever systems were already in place to work with. When the Republic went too far astray they were basically all Rebels. But obviously its not like the Republican party has launched an Order 66 style attack on Jediism.

One could draw parallels to Trump's treatment of Muslims though. My thing is that it's always interesting when something's not happening directly to you... a lot of people just don't feel it at all, it seems. And then I hear "Trump sometimes says harsh things".... and I have to take a breath... like what? When inside I'm screaming like HOW DO YOU NOT KNOW HOW BAD HE IS!!!

Sorry. I digress.

There are significant reasons to oppose Trump. These reasons do not extend to being anti-Republican though. If anything Trump is the biggest danger to the Republican party because unlike what happened with the Tea party takeover, Trump has no real ideology of his own. His is a cult of personality. And so people just give him a pass on everything and don't really even pay attention to everything he's doing and how its hurting people; including his own people and people he claimed he was going to help like farmers and steel workers. But real republic values are quickly vanishing. All the stuff about deficits and fiscal conservatism... poof... gone. This is why many Republicans have either abandoned the party in general or just stayed silent.

And it reminds me of how the canon Jedi stayed out of things like slavery on Tatooine even though... if they had ended slavery there would Anakin have gone to the dark side? I don't think so. Because it hit him personally. That was his mother. It's always someone's mother, someone's child, someone's sister. Kids locked up in cages... kids dying in cages.... we don't know them personally but that's someone's child. I don't see how a Jedi could be for that. I can see how a Jedi could be a republican. But I can't see how a Jedi could be for certain policies that cause unnecessary harm to people; and especially to children. We went past saying harsh things in 2016. This isn't the same guy who led lock her up chants and promised to pay legal bills for people in his crowds that beat up protesters. Now the guy targets and sends his FBI after black groups as if they're the biggest terrorists all while pro-white terrorists plot to bomb and shoot up the country and have been responsible for many attacks. Now people are chanting send her back.

And I have to say... this is not normal.

We have a guy in the white house who thinks we should nuke hurricanes and avoid forest fires by raking leaves. Not only did he pull out of the Paris climate accord but he just weakened the endangered species act. WHY?? We're talking about a guy that keeps telling people that Americans aren't paying for tariffs. It's like he was counting on people being dumb and not even Googling anything he says to see if its true.

And this is just the tip of the iceberg. This is just what comes to mind recently. Forget grabbing women by the genitals and just kissing them without permission. Forget Trump asking Russia to meddle in the election and the fact that they actually started working on it the same day. What about Trump recently saying that he would accept more help in the future even though it is illegal? I mean... it just never ends with this guy and if Barack Obama had said or done 1/100 of what Trump has.... omg.... I hate to even think about it. So YES... I can understand why a Jedi who follows politics would question how any Jedi could be (specifically) a Trump supporter. Because if you are a Jedi and you're Republican.... maybe you shouldn't be so "absolute" in that position that you support Trump as long as he gives you judges or as long as he gives you (assuming you're rich) a tax break, spending trillions we don't have. Look, I'm not saying you can't be a Jedi and support Trump. I just don't quite understand how one can possibly do that if you hold any Jedi values and actually know what (SPECIFICALLY) Trump and his administration are doing. It defies logic to me.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Manu, Kobos, DannyNJ

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
28 Aug 2019 13:36 #342633 by ZealotX

For example Trump does not have a condescending view of immigrants.


Wow... how did I miss this? I'm curious where you get your news from. Seriously. Like... not even joking.

No one thinks Trump has a "condescending view" of immigrants in general. He specifically attacks BROWN immigrants. Melania can tan all she wants to but she'll never be a shade that qualifies to be in that group. Melania, most likely, immigrated to the US ILLEGALLY because of the type of work visa she had. And then her parents came because she sponsored them. In other words... "chain migration" which Trump decries. So how is it that his own wife could be guilty of the very same things he complains about other people doing? Did she not come here to work? Is it not work that other Americans could do? Should she have qualified for an Einstein visa?

www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-43256318

Yet, FOR SOME REASON, when human beings from the Southern border come... we need to build a wall. If you think this is about their status as an immigrant... I sincerely question your sight and possibly even grasp on reality. This is about where they are from. We already know how Trump feels about "s-hole countries".

Moreover, do you honestly think that if Melania got fat and ugly that he wouldn't want to divorce her or that he would care if she got deported? Whatever their relationship is, Melania knows more about what it is then we do and she's shown the world how much they mean to each other. Not to mention how often he cheated on her even while she was pregnant. So just because he married an immigrant who... omg just so happened to be a model... like that means something about how he feels about immigrants or immigration. It is hilarious to think he cares beyond how it affects one person; Donald J Trump.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Manu, Kobos, DannyNJ

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Moderators: KobosBrick