Ending the Myth of Racism

Phoenix Vidensia wrote: The... hell? Reverse racism? Look, if someone is racist, that’s that. Not just white people can be racist. ANYONE can be racist. Why the crap is this even up for debate? I wasn’t referencing people who REACT to being treated poorly for their skin color either, I was referring to non white racists. Good God!

Once again, it depends on the definition you are using. And no I'm not debating it. I already told you that you can use whatever definition you want. You're trying to argue about what definition **I** should use in MY thread. Participation in this thread is entirely voluntary. No "reverse slavery" going on here If you want to talk about black people start a new thread and talk about black people to your heart's content. But it's not my job to use your definition to talk about black people when I'm not using your definition in which everyone can be racists. Nor do I want to confuse what I am talking about by bringing it down to the level of simplistic hate and animosity. Because that feeds on itself. As long as you have whites who hate blacks you're naturally going to have blacks that hate whites. What do you expect? That the objects of 400 years of hate, ridicule, and oppression are going to sing cum by yah at it all and have no negative feelings whatsoever? Hatred begets hatred. These things are obvious and don't need to be debated. If you want to scold black people for having a reaction to racism, slavery, oppression, being called the n-word and other racial epithets, and having lives and economics disrupted, you can go right ahead... and start your own thread. This thread isn't for that or about that.

Somebody will always find an excuse to complain. First blacks and Hispanics complain they are discriminated against because they are not featured in advertising. So the advertisers target those markets on Hispanic and Black TV and they hire more and more black actors and Hispanics for commercials.

So guess what, now the black and Hispanics are complaining that they are being unfairly targeted disproportionately for junk food ads.

https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/junk-food-ads-disproportionately-target-black-hispanic-kids-study-finds-n959111

Until people stop complaining and actually accept what they deserve this argument will never get any better. Racism does not need power, it needs attitude only. Systematic racism requires group policy, individual racism only requires individual point of view. Without this racial group policy, the black shop owner not hiring whites is just as powerful as the white shop owner not hiring blacks. Everyone needs to get over this pity party of how badly history has treated their kind because if it continues like this, no one realizes how bad it can actually get.

WOW

VixensVengeance wrote: Somebody will always find an excuse to complain. First blacks and Hispanics complain they are discriminated against because they are not featured in advertising. So the advertisers target those markets on Hispanic and Black TV and they hire more and more black actors and Hispanics for commercials.

So guess what, now the black and Hispanics are complaining that they are being unfairly targeted disproportionately for junk food ads.

https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/junk-food-ads-disproportionately-target-black-hispanic-kids-study-finds-n959111

Until people stop complaining and actually accept what they deserve this argument will never get any better. Racism does not need power, it needs attitude only. Systematic racism requires group policy, individual racism only requires individual point of view. Without this racial group policy, the black shop owner not hiring whites is just as powerful as the white shop owner not hiring blacks. Everyone needs to get over this pity party of how badly history has treated their kind because if it continues like this, no one realizes how bad it can actually get.

so, black people should be the ones to ignore the fact that they're less likely to get jobs and the very few black owned businesses that can afford to hire anyone at all should be treated the same as the myriad of white owned businesses that either do not hire blacks or hire 1. How about you get the main people who are doing the discrimination to stop first and let's just see how many on the other side still have a problem. I think we're disagreeing mainly because where you are trying to equivocate I see cause and effect. If you don't like the effect you have to control the cause.

Racism doesn't require a group policy, just a shared set of views or ideology. The same is true of the fact that there are many Christian churches of different denominations and yet they vote together on shared values. They are unorganized and their pastor only has to reinforce the ideals without telling them exactly who and how to vote. That's power. Influence is power. So let's not pretend that it isn't. Let's not pretend that a group of people acting on the same worldview cannot, together, effect the lives of another group of people. I love the whole "Get over it argument" but you we can walk and chew gum at the same time. No one is sitting at home crying about how they can't get a job because of "the man". But while we work on a personal level to advance our own individual lives and families, we still feel the pain of the larger community. The leads to activism and conversations about race.

I personally, am doing well. So what is your argument? That I'm complaining instead of.... what exactly?

It seems more like certain people would rather not be part of the discussion. But the answer to that is not to bash the discussion and COMPLAIN (because that's what... it is...) about what is "perceived" as complaining. Rather ironic, I think.

Its not an argument, its an observation. You see the world a specific way and you know how I feel about things because we have discussed it in PM.

You see an unfairness in things. Well the reality is that things will always be unfair. life is inherently unfair. You see that unfairness manifested in a specific way in this case but the problem is you are waiting for or demanding the other guy make the change. You want him to give up power freely but that will never happen.

Do you want that same sort of power? Do you want his power to do with what you feel is right? Then you must take it! It will never be given to you. You can sit and complain or you can do something about it. My observation is an insight into a personal quandary. Are you a complainer or a person of action? You see the wrong in the world but do you have the guts to go out and change it?

You see that power in another and you want it. So what are you going to do about it? How far are you willing to go to get what you want?

Well, complaints are taken pretty seriously in the business world. At work we are told we are not finished until the customer is satisfied. Many times I have had to reprint entire runs simply because they did not like the color. That was a complaint. It got something done. Are you saying force is the only acceptable method to attainment?

VixensVengeance wrote: Its not an argument, its an observation. You see the world a specific way and you know how I feel about things because we have discussed it in PM.

You see an unfairness in things. Well the reality is that things will always be unfair. life is inherently unfair. You see that unfairness manifested in a specific way in this case but the problem is you are waiting for or demanding the other guy make the change. You want him to give up power freely but that will never happen.

Do you want that same sort of power? Do you want his power to do with what you feel is right? Then you must take it! It will never be given to you. You can sit and complain or you can do something about it. My observation is an insight into a personal quandary. Are you a complainer or a person of action? You see the wrong in the world but do you have the guts to go out and change it?

You see that power in another and you want it. So what are you going to do about it? How far are you willing to go to get what you want?

rugadd made a good point which I will now shamelessly steal. Thanks.

I also work at a company where complaints are taken seriously but I'll go one better. The bigger the client is the more the request is taken seriously and the more likely the customer is to get satisfaction. Politics largely works via exactly that. Complaining. However, the term is "lobbying". You can call up your representative and... "lobby" for issues that are important to you. However, other people are lobbying too and some contribute to that reps re-election fund. If what you want doesn't have a lot of opposition its more likely to be taken seriously. If you are seen as an important client you're more likely to be heard. Why are some candidates now talking about reparations? An effort to secure the black vote. Democrats may have taken black voters for granted but since Hillary lost they know they need us to win.

So certain things, yes, complaints actually do work. But again, like we've discussed, I believe in walking and chewing gum at the same time. I believe we need a multi-pronged approach. I have never suggested black people do ONE thing or NOTHING and wait for white people to stop hating us. Nor do I think I can convince people who hate us to stop. They'll probably just hate me personally for bringing it up. There are things black people are doing and need to do more of. There are things that white people are (already) doing and need to do more of. You have a noble warrior spirit, if I may say that. You don't want your victory to have anything to do with your opponent conceding. However, as I talk about racism one should understand that it is a complex thing which also uses isolation and indoctrination within that isolation in order to foment and cultivate racist ideologies. As long as those being indoctrinated and being influenced by propaganda are keeping to themselves and circles where they are more likely to stay in their protective bubbles the more these ideologies will prevail because they are programmed into people. Even if you preach about love and tolerance it doesn't work without the definition "who is my neighbor". You can't fight propaganda with your fists. You have to counter propaganda intellectually with your voice. As it has been said...

The pen is mightier than the sword. Look at the SW Sith for example. The rule of 2 was a departure from the brute force methodology in favor of manipulation and cunning. This proved to be a far more formidable weapon. Palpatine didn't take power by force. It was given because people always give their power. And what was his argument? What did he use? Did he not use the treatment of Naboo and the passionate speech by its queen on behalf of her people? But again, that's politics. We have to develop our own economic solutions but also our own political solutions. They are both valid and both things that should be done simultaneously to support each other. Some people fight in the courts. Some people protest. Some people become lawyers and judges, seeking positions of power. Some people call and write their members of congress. Many people vote whenever they get the chance. Some people debate. Some people become principles and takeover schools. Some people give talks. Some people provide racial sensitivity training to Starbucks and other companies. Some people write books. Some people make movies. Some people get into community organizing and activism. Some people run for public office. This one black guy even became president of the United States. The point is... there isn't one solution or one idea. You have to do EVERYTHING you can if you want to fight for equal rights and justice. And the more people you have fighting THEIR good fight and using whatever skills and talents they have towards this purpose the more effective the COLLECTIVE is against the thing we're fighting against. An individual will always be viewed as powerless against the many. But the efforts of racists are not individual. They are simply individual parts of a mostly disorganized whole. To fight against that you have to be an individual part of a more powerful coalition.

The complaint got nothing done. It was the threat of not getting paid or the potential promise of no repeat business that got something done. And I never said anything about force anywhere in my comments. However in the case of Palpatine, he did not seize power by force but he definitely held onto that power by force.

I could give or take the business...there is always more if you know how to market. My motivation, every time, was to see them smile and be happy. That is not the same thing as being afraid of their discontent. I love my job because of that. You assume alot to think fear is the motivator.

You continue to put words in my mouth. Once again, I never said anything about fear. I choose my words quite carefully and I would appreciate it if you would heed that.

And what if they made a request that was unreasonable? Would your motivation still be one to make them smile and happy or would your motivation become one to preserve your business and its profits? Say they demanded to only pay 100 bucks for a 1000 dollar job because thats what they felt it was worth?