Ending the Myth of Racism

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16 Aug 2019 16:11 #341305 by ZealotX
Replied by ZealotX on topic Ending the Myth of Racism

VixensVengeance wrote: I’ll tell you a story. I was raised in a small rural and poor community of about 3k people. Growing up we had no money. When I turned 15 I asked my parents for a car. Of course they could not afford one and instead my father said to me that I needed to find a way to get a car on my own if I wanted one. No excuses as to why I couldn’t, just find the way I can. Hard work, perseverance, struggle, sacrifice all that would be involved but if I wanted it bad enough I would go through that to get what I wanted.

I found rides where I could and I found jobs. I started by throwing hay bales for .10 cents a bale. I cut and stacked wood, I cleaned horse stalls and I even worked in a local carnival for a week, cutting onions and peppers. Finally I had enough money to get my first car. It was 400 dollars and I bought a little motorcycle. I now had my own transportation. I could get better jobs that were further away and I was no longer reliant on others for rides. I got those better jobs and made more money. I eventually bought a pickup truck. Now I had a means to organize my own work by hauling or whatever and so I did that.

Eventually I graduated high school but did not have enough money for college. So I went to work full time doing whatever job I could. I lived under the poverty line for years. Saving every penny I could. To make ends meet I started a food bank for my neighborhood. I would travel grocery stores and made deals with them to pick up items they could no longer sell. Old bread and milk and perishables. I would get first pick and the rest I would give to the community. It endeared me to others and the rewards back from that hard work were immeasurable. Eventually I found an employer that valued my work ethic so much they offered to help me with school. I took the money I had saved and with their help put myself through college. I came out of college with some student loan debt but I also had a degree.

I used that degree to get better jobs. And I used those jobs to pay off that debt. I could go on but I think you get the point of this story. I have done very well for myself in life because I found solutions and not excuses. You (and people like Jane Elliot) are using excuses to keep you from finding the solutions to your problems. You are the perpetrator of promoting the perception of the continued victim hood of your own race. Until that changes I can’t help you but I do wish you the best in all your endeavors!


I'm happy for you. It's good that during that time your biggest concern was getting your own car. People do so love to compare struggles.

Not long ago a black man was arrested under the assumption of stealing hospital equipment.

He was a patient and asked the doctor if he could take a walk outside. He was hooked up to the iv. The security guard stops him. He tells the security guard but instead of the security guard verifying his story he calls the police. Instead of the police immediately verifying his story they arrested him, in his hospital gown.

No where in your story did I hear you having to contend with racism or people treating you unfairly because of a physical trait or characteristic you couldn't control. So I'm happy for you. You're lucky. There are people who are below the poverty line because they don't have a car and there are people who are below the poverty line because they had to work to feed their families at 11, 12, 13 years old. And I'm not going to make the mistake of saying your life wasn't hard. I'm sure it was. And yes, some people feel like because their life was hard racism doesn't exist because why wasn't it easier for them if they're white? But the reality is that no one's experience can define the experience of everyone else. You can't struggle and look at someone else and assume their struggle is the same as yours or that its for all the same reason. Because you don't know. And you don't know how many opportunities you had that someone else didn't because someone you had to interact with didn't see you according to some stereotype. You don't know how many times you didn't get denied for something because someone who may have been 100% racist, simply wasn't racist towards YOU. But again... I'm happy for you. And I'm not trying to take away from any of the strength or resilience you had to have in order to make it. I'm also assuming that never once did you believe that you couldn't make it because of the way white society saw you. You never had to think about it as part of your survival. There is a luck that you had all through that life, though it was a struggle. Because it was a struggle you may not feel lucky or fortunate. But you were both. Situations like poverty aren't binary. They're relative. You can have a life that absolutely sucks and still have a better/easier life than someone else. And we're also talking about collective groups vs individuals.

Jane Elliott asked a room full of white folks point blank. How many of you would want to be treated the same way black people in this society are treated? Not a single person raised their hands. That means they all knew that racism exists and that it didn't effect them. What's frustrating to me, even more than the fact you consider what I say excuses, is the fact that you don't see the privilege that it takes to question whether something like racism exists. It's like a man telling a feminist that women are treated equally. When you're part of that class that's doing the thing to the other class its hard to see yourself from their perspective. Jane herself didn't know until she went through her own exercise and was mistreated on the basis of the color of her eyes.

If this is it for you, I thank you sincerely for your contributions to this discussion whether you thought they were productive or not. For me, its all positive and all productive, so I thank you and wish you the best.
The following user(s) said Thank You: VixensVengeance aka Kyrin Wyldstar

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16 Aug 2019 16:49 #341307 by DeboraJ
Replied by DeboraJ on topic Ending the Myth of Racism
Just wondering why you're even here arguing with Jedis when you've declared yourself a Sith and even provide a link to the Sith organization. Why are you even here? Just asking because it seems rather odd to me...

Deb :)

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16 Aug 2019 16:51 - 16 Aug 2019 16:53 #341308 by Uzima Moto
It seems there's a lot to unwrap here. I didn't watch the videos, but I think I might get the gist of some of the argument here. I also so saw some.. discrepancies.. when it came to recounting history..

I'll address the main myth first. Racism is real, systemic racism is illegal. Why? Well, you have to put those two words to their definitions. First, there's systemic: "relating to a system, especially as opposed to a particular part." This implies the whole of something, in total. Then there's racism: "prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior." Racism is directly discriminate towards others based on ranking of inferiority. With the assumption that your's is at the top of the ladder. Putting them together says that an entire system's modus operandi is based in racism. That situation did exist in The States at certain times, during certain eras. However, it was never a whole. It's certainly not prescribed by the federal constitution with its bias against the institution of slavery. Jim Crowe or the Virginia Slave codes are better examples of systemic racism. All of which are now illegal due to the 13th, 14th, and 15th amendment and the Civil Rights Act and its subsequent amendments..

However, its not unique to America. It was a common practice during the European Colonial Era. Started by the Spaniards and Portuguese. Europe was a late player in the International Slave Trade. Only thing special about them was being able to make it transoceanic. The Slave Trade between Africa and India, by way of Arabia, was just as brutal and precedes Europe by 600 years at least. You have to put these things in their proper historical context because popular opinion often gets it wrong. The West is HIGHLY propagandized, systemically.. as all de facto governments practice it. Even on their own employees.. Willie Lynch is believed to be a hoax for some seemingly legitimate reasons..

We have to be REALLY careful about info and disinfo in Popular Culture. Because it will have us acting against reality, but, like God (The Force) our actions aren't without affect. As we would undoubtedly change aspects of reality itself.. including causing civil unrest given the right spark.. unlawful wars have been supported by propaganda. Assassinations covered up, and false flags ignored. It's so deep in American society that "Americans" don't realize that their States are Nations.. because "States" are nations by definition in law. Which is bigger than one might think...

Instead of being an African American.. I'm Texan American.. or someone else could be Georgian American.. so on and so forth.. this has big societal ramifications, but HUGE legal ones..

Babies on Bayonets is a good historical example of what propaganda could lead to..

Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem
By the sword we seek peace, but peace only under liberty.
Last edit: 16 Aug 2019 16:53 by Uzima Moto.

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16 Aug 2019 17:02 #341309 by Phoenix Vidensia

DeboraJ wrote: Just wondering why you're even here arguing with Jedis when you've declared yourself a Sith and even provide a link to the Sith organization. Why are you even here? Just asking because it seems rather odd to me...


Prejudice against Sith... are you? I’m closest to one myself. We not welcome here?

... Meh ...

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16 Aug 2019 17:42 - 16 Aug 2019 17:45 #341312 by DeboraJ
Replied by DeboraJ on topic Ending the Myth of Racism
How nice of you to jump straight to accusations of prejudice and self-victimization. I asked an honest question. It is beyond bizarre to find a Sith POV with a link to a Sith website in the midst of a Jedi temple discussion.

It's a very straightforward question. And I didn't even ask you. What's your point in harassing me for asking?

Pretty sure it's just you being rude.

Deb :)
Last edit: 16 Aug 2019 17:45 by DeboraJ. Reason: Was talking to the wrong person.

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16 Aug 2019 17:46 #341313 by VixensVengeance aka Kyrin Wyldstar

DeboraJ wrote: Just wondering why you're even here arguing with Jedis when you've declared yourself a Sith and even provide a link to the Sith organization. Why are you even here? Just asking because it seems rather odd to me...


A quote from your own home page.

A Jedi at Temple of the Jedi Order (TotJO) follows our Doctrine, though all are welcome to register an account and participate as a guest.


Are you unwelcoming us to participate here freely?

Solve' et coagula
Non serviam
The following user(s) said Thank You: Phoenix Vidensia

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16 Aug 2019 17:55 #341315 by Alethea Thompson
We have Sith come in all the time. As long as a person isn't disruptive, they are allowed to come in. How else are you going to prevent an echo chamber?
The following user(s) said Thank You: Carlos.Martinez3, ZealotX, Kelrax Lorcken, Phoenix Vidensia

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16 Aug 2019 18:31 #341319 by ZealotX
Replied by ZealotX on topic Ending the Myth of Racism

Phoenix Vidensia wrote: ZealotX, since you’re still on about racism, please cease to continuously highlight white supremacy, seemingly ignoring racism against whites by your beloved minorities. Heck, you’re ignoring the racism between the minorities. It’s irritating.


Are you trying to bait me? If so, you should save your energy. It wont work.

saying "my beloved minorities" makes it sound like you don't exactly love minorities. I'm sorry if that's how you feel. You might be a cool person but without knowing you I would be losing out. ;)

I have enough resistance trying to argue that racism exists. You seem to be trying to argue that reverse racism exists and should not be ignored. I'm sorry you feel that way. I'm sorry you believe that I am ignoring some form of racism that means something to you. I'm sorry if you feel disenfranchised and/or oppressed by black people. Please feel free to share your story of racial oppression.

The reason I don't talk about "reverse racism" is because I don't use any definition of the word that makes it "reversible" the way you describe. Reactions to racism are not "reverse racism". If I purposefully step on your shoe and you get mad, you are entitled to get mad. Getting mad isn't "reverse shoe stepping". You can step on my shoe in return but you'd have to be in a position to be able to step on my shoe.

What makes racism "a thing" is the fact that racists occupy a dominant position and are therefore able to use their power to oppress people in an inferior position. A lot of people ascribe racism to a view that one's race is superior however, the entire idea of race was invented by whites. We all came from Africa. We all have the same ancestors. There are people who are bigots. Bigotry knows no color or gender. Everyone can play the "I'm better than you" game. However, that's not what I mean when I talk about racism. Now if you can't get a job because black people wont hire you then please tell that story. That would be an amazing case of reverse racism. But if you can get a job more easily than the person who hired someone else... I don't consider that racism or just cause to even complain.

Racism is different from racist jokes or attitudes. It's different from dating preference and attraction. Racism is something that has a negative impact on that other person and helps to determine their future. Racism does not prevent a more desirable future, but rather affects the probability of more desirable outcomes in a number of areas in which success can be measured. Racism is similar to an actual race where some of the other runners have a head start and have no interest in letting you catch up. Instead, they want you to stay in your lane. But again, if you have evidence of racism you'd like to share feel free. This forum is not about me making everyone's arguments for them. I'm mainly responding to questions and arguments posed to me. But I do appreciate you being here and taking part in the discussion.

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16 Aug 2019 18:46 #341321 by Manu
Replied by Manu on topic Ending the Myth of Racism

DeboraJ wrote: Just wondering why you're even here arguing with Jedis when you've declared yourself a Sith and even provide a link to the Sith organization. Why are you even here? Just asking because it seems rather odd to me...


Diversity fuels growth. We should feel fortunate to have Sith among us, challenging us, raising the bar.

Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted - Ralph Waldo Emerson

Step aggressively toward your fear. - Jocko Willink

TM: Bruno Moreira (Kyber) | Public Journal
The following user(s) said Thank You: Carlos.Martinez3, Kelrax Lorcken

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16 Aug 2019 19:26 - 16 Aug 2019 19:27 #341325 by Phoenix Vidensia

DeboraJ wrote: How nice of you to jump straight to accusations of prejudice and self-victimization. I asked an honest question. It is beyond bizarre to find a Sith POV with a link to a Sith website in the midst of a Jedi temple discussion.

It's a very straightforward question. And I didn't even ask you. What's your point in harassing me for asking?

Pretty sure it's just you being rude.


What I did? I asked a question. I didn’t HARASS you, you over sensitive twit.

... Meh ...
Last edit: 16 Aug 2019 19:27 by Phoenix Vidensia.

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