Compassion Ration

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03 Aug 2019 15:47 - 03 Aug 2019 15:49 #340865 by Carlos.Martinez3
As Jeddist - living in modern day- cell phones - blue ray players - virtual reality - information and communication at a touch of a button or phone / internet and TV movies- 7 billion people ( www.worldometers.info/world-population/ ) and counting and study and books and reading - reviewing talking meeting job career kids gym church the club bar car wash bills pets driving gas’s - did I mention bills? Lol!
When life hits and flows - where does things like compassion and forgiveness come into effect? How do you give it in the real world? What does it look like? Are there limits? How do we as modern day Jeddist apply things like our codes and ways and ideas , like forgiveness to our path? Do we think it’s important? Is it? Do we grow out of or run out eventually of these type of character traits? Is there a way to combat “empty tank syndrome” or when we just run out of gas for certain things? I’ve hear a few ... my give a dam is busted - I ran out of - effs ( u know the word) to give-things like that. So how do you do it my every day Jedi? Is it even a thing ? Priority ? Is it important for leaders to have forgiveness and compassion? When is too much, too much?Is it the rock we use to sharpen or the one we find ourself under or at time even throw ourselfs? When do you stop giving it ?
Just wondering my Temple.

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Last edit: 03 Aug 2019 15:49 by Carlos.Martinez3.
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03 Aug 2019 18:36 #340872 by elizabeth
Replied by elizabeth on topic Compassion Ration
Forgiveness and compassion are important but one is a choice and the other to me anyway is a natural feeling.
You can have compassion for someone yet choose not to forgive.
The two arent dependant on each other.

You can forgive yourself and move on from a situation not holding onto anger or hate. Yet you are under no obligation to forgive others.
I dont believe we run out of compassion, I do think that there comes a point where having offered compassion understanding and help over and over, you have to make a choice to cut a person from your life if they repeatedly show in their actions that they have no intention to change their behaviour.

You cant keep giving when others are being harmed.
Do you as a Jedi continue to show forgiveness to one and yet allow another to suffer? Wheres the compassion for the other then?
There has to be a point where you cut of the toxic individual in order for others to have their chance.
Doesnt mean you hate them, most times there are no particular feelings because from that moment you concentrate on whats important to you.
Growth doesnt mean allowing toxic individuals to do as they wish, sometimes growth is walking away.

The Jedi path for me isnt about allowing others to walk over you whilst you turn the other cheek or endlessly forgive.
Its having the strength to say enougth and stand strong not giving space to the negative energy of certain individuals.

I never loose.


TM Karn
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04 Aug 2019 02:29 #340883 by lightscribe
Replied by lightscribe on topic Compassion Ration
I think it's important to remember that forgiveness does not require us to absolve someone of their guilt. You can forgive someone and still not allow them to continue being in your life. If someone commits a crime, being forgiven by the victim doesn't change their punishment. Forgiveness is never a complete reset, and it often has no impact on the situation at all.

I really don't believe that continually accepting someone's behavior in the name of "forgiveness" is the best thing for anyone, Jedi or not. If a situation is toxic, it only breeds things like fear, anger, and self-involvement. Sometimes, putting one's foot down is the best way to observe Jedi values.

Forgiveness is an internal matter. I define it as making peace with someone else's humanity. When I forgive, I am managing my own emotions about a situation, regardless of external factors. So to answer your main question, I don't think you ever stop giving forgiveness.

Compassion (specifically in regards to those we feel the need to forgive) is another matter entirely. Compassion is an action in which we actively do not give someone what they have earned (punishment, to use a rather crude descriptor). I do think there is a point where compassion is no longer wise or helpful. Compassion and forgiveness must not always exist simultaneously.

Today, I will do my best. My best is all that I can do. And sometimes, my best will surprise me.

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04 Aug 2019 03:02 #340884 by JamesSand
Replied by JamesSand on topic Compassion Ration
Compassion is for when compassion is necessary - ie, pick a range of "normal day-to-day human condition, life sucks for everybody" type stuff - no compassion required, that's just the cost of doing business (ie - living)

then there's the exceptional stuff, that's where you get compassion.

Stubbed toe - no one cares.
Parent/Sibling/Child dies - time for compassion.


Some people seem to think the band is quite narrow, and expect (or give?) compassion for stuff that other people might think is inside the band of "not interesting enough"

This can vary depending on your own realm of experiences.

Some people might find wetting themselves to be the most mortifying experience in their lives, and be distressed about it for days, weeks, months to come.

Someone might think that falls into the day-to-day range of things that happen (say, nurses, or school teachers, both of whom see it all the time)

You're parents are not being bastards when they don't react much to your first breakup - they've just seen it often enough that they don't see it needs much assistance.
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04 Aug 2019 19:05 - 04 Aug 2019 19:09 #340894 by Phoenix Vidensia
Replied by Phoenix Vidensia on topic Compassion Ration

lightscribe wrote: I really don't believe that continually accepting someone's behavior in the name of "forgiveness" is the best thing for anyone, Jedi or not. If a situation is toxic, it only breeds things like fear, anger, and self-involvement. Sometimes, putting one's foot down is the best way to observe Jedi values.


I think the threshold for forgiveness varies, depending on the individual.

Also, forgiveness can be a complete reset, though I’ve only ever heard of such a thing in Christianity. I’ve also never met a human, Christian or otherwise, who could forgive like that.

... Meh ...
Last edit: 04 Aug 2019 19:09 by Phoenix Vidensia. Reason: Additions
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04 Aug 2019 22:40 #340899 by JamesSand
Replied by JamesSand on topic Compassion Ration
Heh - your new avatar looks like a leaping salmon or something when it is it small on the side "latest posts" bar.

Anyway, people always want forgiveness, and it sounds great, and comes up a lot in movies and whatnot.

The few times I've either received or given what I would call forgiveness is after time (short or long), when one or both of us has changed and learned new things, and whilst we still do not necessarily agree with whatever acts or omissions occurred, we can at least understand them, and thus, forgive.

When you can say "Were it me, in those circumstances, with those desires, I may have done just that thing" you can easily forgive.


Of course, it takes a little humility of ones own to acknowledge that you are not a perfect creature, all knowing and wise, and that in different circumstances (or even your current ones) you may make imperfect decisions.


of course, that doesn't mean you *have* to forgive - if someone has made themselves your adversary, and the cost to you has been high - whatever may happen in the future it may seem prudent to you not to extend that recognition.

Once bitten, twice shy, sort of thing.
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04 Aug 2019 23:26 #340904 by lightscribe
Replied by lightscribe on topic Compassion Ration

Tempest Nox wrote:

lightscribe wrote: I really don't believe that continually accepting someone's behavior in the name of "forgiveness" is the best thing for anyone, Jedi or not. If a situation is toxic, it only breeds things like fear, anger, and self-involvement. Sometimes, putting one's foot down is the best way to observe Jedi values.


I think the threshold for forgiveness varies, depending on the individual.

Also, forgiveness can be a complete reset, though I’ve only ever heard of such a thing in Christianity. I’ve also never met a human, Christian or otherwise, who could forgive like that.


It definitely does, and I think that's an important factor in determining whether sticking with a person/situation is for the utmost good. If someone's wrongdoing has passed your capacity to forgive at a given time, but you continue to associate with that person, you are certainly not doing yourself any good, but you are also not doing them any good. This kind of situation breeds toxicity.

That kind of forgiveness is the ideal to work toward in Christianity, yes. It's seen as something that only God can do fully, the way He forgave us. So followers of Christ are to spend their lives being as Christlike as possible.

Today, I will do my best. My best is all that I can do. And sometimes, my best will surprise me.

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04 Aug 2019 23:28 #340905 by lightscribe
Replied by lightscribe on topic Compassion Ration

JamesSand wrote:
The few times I've either received or given what I would call forgiveness is after time (short or long), when one or both of us has changed and learned new things, and whilst we still do not necessarily agree with whatever acts or omissions occurred, we can at least understand them, and thus, forgive.

When you can say "Were it me, in those circumstances, with those desires, I may have done just that thing" you can easily forgive.


I absolutely agree. This is one reason why it's so important to practice putting ourselves in another's position - the more different from our own experience, the better. It prepares us for these kinds of situations. What we know and experience is so small in terms of all that exists.

Today, I will do my best. My best is all that I can do. And sometimes, my best will surprise me.

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04 Aug 2019 23:47 #340908 by Proteus
Replied by Proteus on topic Compassion Ration
Something that is rarely heard of when it comes to "which of these two positions should I go with on this idea" is the notion of not choosing either. To forgive, not to forgive, what is the right action, when and why... And little do many realize, picking neither is also an option. We do not always have to take an action. And one is not obligated to associate personally with another, which is what the dilemma of forgiveness often tends to assume.

This doesn't necessarily mean we're really indifferent to what has come to pass about someone. It just means reserving our judgements either way for what time will show or otherwise for what we decide is more important to spend it on.

It seems that I know that I know.
What I would like to see is the 'I' that knows me when I know that I know that I know.
- Alan Watts

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05 Aug 2019 02:02 #340912 by JamesSand
Replied by JamesSand on topic Compassion Ration
I'm not sure that makes sense Pro?

I don't have to take an action, or thought, either way, for something you did to your brother - it's simply none of my business, but that is not taking no action, that is having no action to take.

In the event I am in the forgiving business, I imagine I must have some personal relationship to it?

If you're simply saying there are things that fall beneath one's notice for forgiveness - sure, although you might also argue that any error under a certain threshold is automatically forgiven....

Generally, reserving judgment means defaulting to a negative - I don't buy or not buy a horse, like some kind of schrodingers situation - the horse is simultaneously bought or not bought until I make a decision - the horse is not bought, until otherwise.

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