Betsy Ross Flag vs Colin Kaepernick (controversial)

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06 Jul 2019 21:59 #340294 by JamesSand
I don't think you get to just have a US Civil War.

You lot built an empire - not with ships and flags like the brits did, but with media, influence, and products, but, you do not care at all for your "children"


Your politics, your actions, affect so much beyond the edges of your country, but you're immature, a commander without humility, you either never wanted to be the leader, or you did, but never understood the responsibility.

Now your bullshit politics affects the world.

but you're too busy wallowing in your own filth to look to a better world for everyone*.

I can't really force the lot of you to be the "Leaders of the Free World" - I can only hope my own politicians abandon you before it's too late.





*Then again, maybe Trump is, maybe by saying "I don't care about the history of anything, I just care about Mars" is what we need, not footballers-turned-social-influencers trying to stay relevant by screaming "illuminati!" at every shadowy doorway and creaky staircase - yet, if a few seconds on the internet is anything to go by, everyone brands one a buffoon and tyrant, and the other a plucky voice for the voiceless.....
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07 Jul 2019 00:26 #340295 by Omhu Cuspor

ZealotX wrote: There seems to be 2 sides:

1. America's history "is what it is", you can't change it, and there's no problem if people have pride in it
2. Aspects of America's history are very offensive to disaffected groups who were either slaves or natives

Which side are you? Does it matter?


I think there is at least one more option among the available perspectives. It would recognize that there is both that which is admirable and that which is despicable in America's history, and then examine whether or not the Betsy Ross Flag emblazoned on a shoe conveys dominant support for either the admirable or the despicable point of view.

To my knowledge, the only nudge that Nike received to withdraw its Betsy Ross Flag shoe was from Colin Kaepernick, who complained that the flag reminded him of slavery. Colin's assertion in this regard is much removed from his claim to the right of protest during playing of the National Anthem, which indeed is his right. In this case, Kaepernick equates the American flag with slavery, and I believe that, in a literal sense, that is a fallacy.

First off - slavery on the American continent vastly predates the existence of the flag and the American nation. The primary reason for the invention of America was not to promote slavery; it was to withdraw from the imbalanced influence of Britain. Yes, slavery existed at the time America was founded, but to my knowledge there is no evidence anywhere that one of the issues of contention in splitting from Britain was a disagreement about slavery. That is not the fundamental value represented in the American flag.

Secondly, while the United States permitted slavery at its founding, it is the only republic or democracy in history to eventually abolish slavery. Rome did not, Greece did not, and most other nations that reached the expanse of an empire were monarchies. The U.S. still has abundant need for reform in terms of racism, but its casting off of slavery is unprecedented. That would quite possibly not have been possible if the form of government which the U.S. flag celebrates had been different.

Colin Kaepernick was on solid ground when he took the knee to shine light on a bad situation in America. But I think he erred in urging Nike to remove their shoe from the market, and that Nike erred in complying.

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07 Jul 2019 04:00 - 07 Jul 2019 04:01 #340296 by VixensVengeance

Omhu Cuspor wrote: The U.S. still has abundant need for reform in terms of racism,



How so?

Solve' et coagula
Last edit: 07 Jul 2019 04:01 by VixensVengeance.

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07 Jul 2019 17:20 #340301 by Omhu Cuspor

VixensVengeance wrote:

Omhu Cuspor wrote: The U.S. still has abundant need for reform in terms of racism,



How so?


Well - this probably won't be as clearly written as I would like. I spent as much time as I had available to compile facts and statistics, and had to assemble them kind of haphazardly. So, my apologies for that up front.

I didn't provide citations for these a claim below when evidence is broadly available, though did for some claims that are unique. Statistics are not all from the same year; they were all compiled between 2010 and 2019, so each still has some relevance.

That said, here is a mishmash of evidence that racism is still a problem in the U.S.:

African Americans comprise 12 – 14% of the U.S. total population (depending on whether multiracial members of the African American community are counted), but 37.5% of the U.S. prison population

Median African American household income is $30,134, median Hispanic household income is $34,241, median Native American household income is $39,719, and median European American (Caucasian) household income is $48,677.

The Native American unemployment rate is 7.8% overall, and much much higher upon some reservations. African American unemployment is 6.5 percent, Hispanic unemployment rate 4.5 percent, while unemployment among European Americans is just 3.1%.

Black people accounted for 31 percent of police killing victims in 2012, even though they made up just 13 percent of the US population.

The number of hate groups in the U.S. as tracked by the Southern Poverty Law Center rose from 457 in 1999 to 1,020 in 2018. FBI statistics show that hate crimes increased by 30 percent in the three-year period ending in 2017.

Richard Spencer, self-described white nationalist and head of the white supremacist National Policy Institute, advocates a "peaceful ethnic cleansing" of nonwhites from America. Two weeks after Donald Trump’s election as American President, Spencer shouted at an alt-right conference “Hail Trump, hail our people, hail victory!” and offered a Nazi salute. Members of Spencer’s audience applauded, shouted, and returned his salute. Spencer was a featured speaker at the August 2017 Unite the Right rally in Charlottesville, Virginia.

During his first term as President, Donald Trump called African nations and Haiti "shithole countries”, and Trump called marchers who marched alongside white supremacists and neo-Nazis in Charlottesville “very fine people”.

G4S is the world's largest security company measured by revenues, with operations in more than 90 countries. With over 570,000 employees it is the world's third-largest private employer; over 38,000 of those employees are in the United States. Most of the employees are security guards, but some train municipal police officers and a growing segment are engaged as mercenaries. There is abundant documented history of security officers employed by G4S initiating attacks based on race. (See www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/d...ees-racial-overtones )

9,500 of 20,000 Customs and Border Patrol agents - almost half - belong to the recently-revealed secret Facebook group whose content mocked the deaths of asylum seekers and joked about assaulting Latino members of the U.S. Congress visiting a Texas migrant detention facility on June 30, 2019.

More subjectively, racism is evidenced by accounts of fear with minority communities. Such testimony fro: Indian Americans is offered at fortune.com/2017/03/22/when-americans-te...ack-to-your-country/ . Some African Americans share their story (a little below the “Key Points” section) at psmag.com/social-justice/why-black-america-fears-the-police .

My own search for “white nationalism" on YouTube turned up some videos that are objective news reports and some even offering hopeful stories of reformation of former white nationalists. A number of videos there are chilling, though; you can see how racism is interwoven with our culture on YouTube yourself. I could not determine a count of videos that fit the category, but there are many.

A Google search for "Racism in the 21st Century" turns up over 22 million relevant websites, though that's not a good indicator of the existence of a problem; there are over 32 million websites targeted by "Man-eating unicorn". Still, there are some serious discussions of the reality of 21st century racism; a generalized one is at www.focushope.edu/rethinking-racism-in-the-21st-century/ , and the article at www.studlife.com/forum/2009/11/02/racism-in-the-21st-century/ cites University of Delaware professor of psychology John Dovidio, who has studied racism for over three decades, estimating that up to 80% of white Americans may have racist feelings.

Does that help?

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08 Jul 2019 16:07 #340320 by ZealotX

ren wrote: It's my understanding that it's a genuine historical US flag. I find it staggering that US citizens, who pledge allegiance to their flag, are offended by it.


I look at it like this. I'm 40 now (still in the process of accepting that). I remember my 30s, my 20s., I just posted a pic to facebook from my 10s but I hardly remember being that young.

That whole journey is me.

And some might use an old flag as someone posting an old photo of themselves. For the sake of memory. A lot of people commented on my old photo about how they remember that person. My mom saw it and texted me about the young man she remembered.

But...

I don't walk around in the same shoes I wore then. I'm not trying to BE that person. I didn't like everything about that person. That's part of my motivation for self-improvement. I'm not ashamed of that person, but the pride in who I am isn't a relic of the past. My pride is 40 years old, just like me. I wear clothes that I can fit today, not clothes that fit when I was 10 or 7.

The way that many people (especially in the South) are using certain symbols is basically like trying to wear those old clothes from a time when America was deep into morally dark and unenlightened territory, when some of us were slaves, when women weren't allowed to vote, etc. And remnants of that are still with us. Black people still can't live without harassment (and sometimes even lynchings and execution) and women still don't get equal pay and have their reproductive rights dictated to them by men. We're still making progress but there is a conflict between the progress and people who want to go back because the honest truth is they don't like the progress. They'd rather be represented by the flag of yester years because they don't like the America of today represented by its current flag. Sure, they say they love it and have both flags and flags on top of flags. But a flag is a very representative symbol. It marks territory. It's like wild animals pissing in the woods to let others know who the boss is there. "You're in my house, (*****)!"

And for some that memory of me is positive. Would I care to see pics of the guys who bullied me in elementary and middle school on people's shirts all around me? Probably not. Do I want to pass by statues everyday commemorating the people who murdered and enslaved my ancestors? No. We don't sing every verse of the Star Spangled Banner. And for a long time I didn't even know all the lyrics because of that just like many people never heard of the Betsy Ross flag or saw it. But it has a lot of meaning to those it has meaning to. But we often don't recognize in our society just how much conflict there is when it comes to who we are and what we're willing to tolerate.

History is what it is, but it's HOW you USE it that, imho, makes the difference. Some what to go forward. Others want to go back.
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08 Jul 2019 18:40 #340326 by VixensVengeance

Omhu Cuspor wrote:

VixensVengeance wrote:

Omhu Cuspor wrote: The U.S. still has abundant need for reform in terms of racism,



How so?


Well - this probably won't be as clearly written as I would like. I spent as much time as I had available to compile facts and statistics, and had to assemble them kind of haphazardly. So, my apologies for that up front.
Warning: Spoiler! [ Click to expand ]


Does that help?


Yes it does give me a much better perspective on your views. It appears you have done a lot of research into this area and found quite a few points to support your claim. However I wonder if you have researched the other side of these claims? Namely the idea that many of these issues might not actually be based in Racism but are an issue because of some other reason?

For example, the percentage of blacks in prisons you claim is a product of systemic racism in the US. This would require that police unfairly target and courts unfairly convict blacks simply because of their color. This is an incredibly serious charge and I would agree, one that needs massive reform. But what if this disparity in percentages was actually caused by something besides Racism? Maybe poverty in the black communities that lead to higher crimes being committed by these individuals. Then the reason for this percentage disparity becomes poverty and not racism. However if we are so focused on a problem that actually does not exist (racism) we miss the opportunity to actually address the real problem of poverty in order to really help these people. What do you think?

Solve' et coagula

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08 Jul 2019 21:13 #340327 by ZealotX

For example, the percentage of blacks in prisons you claim is a product of systemic racism in the US. This would require that police unfairly target and courts unfairly convict blacks simply because of their color. This is an incredibly serious charge and I would agree, one that needs massive reform. But what if this disparity in percentages was actually caused by something besides Racism? Maybe poverty in the black communities that lead to higher crimes being committed by these individuals. Then the reason for this percentage disparity becomes poverty and not racism. However if we are so focused on a problem that actually does not exist (racism) we miss the opportunity to actually address the real problem of poverty in order to really help these people. What do you think?


Excellent question VV,

Let me give you a bit of my personal experience. Please note, I've never been a criminal. I took a plastic batman from a store when I was probably 7 but I thought my mom had paid for it. I've been to jail twice almost 3 times and of course you talk to people while you're there. When I say you're more likely to get pulled over if you're black... yes, I believe that wholeheartedly. However, there are other contributing factors like the color of your vehicle (I ended up with 2 red cars that were magnets), your speed, age, window tint, type of vehicle, your attitude, area/neighborhood. I believe the way officers think, as long as they can mentally fetch one of these factors they will never say its because the person (or "perp") was black. And maybe you have one or more positive factors (cop thinks you're good looking, cleavage, remind him/her of their son or daughter, etc.) and the cop has reasons working the other way to let you off. It's all their discretion. They don't have to arrest you unless you're a public danger.

With that being said who is he more likely to use his discretion on? The kid that looks like guys he arrests all the time, guys who he NEVER wants his daughter to date, guys who are bigger than he was at their age, guys who don't "look like" they should drive a better car than he does, and the list goes on and on. Stats tell us that whites do pretty much the same or higher levels of crime. However, it's not "racial" when they do it. It's not labeled "minority" in anyway. There's barely a such thing as "white on white" crime. It's not special. That's why we don't generally talk about it. These crimes often do not get reported. Often people (especially domestic violence cases) don't get arrested. And often police aren't really in the areas where whites are selling drugs, etc. They're too busy looking for people who are easier to pick out, who they think are more likely to be suspects as opposed to victims. It's also easier to pick people who wont be believed in court and who they know can't afford to fight these battles in the justice system. They also know that most cops walk even after shooting unarmed black people. And the risk of arresting the son of a lawyer, judge, doctor, etc. is drastically decreased. Not to mention your standard issue hatred of "the other". At the same time, if you're white you can have a bunch of these factors and still only get a verbal warning. Why? Because consciously or subconsciously he doesn't want you (at least not to the same degree).

Fact: Most drivers surpass the speed limit. The only question is by how much. So technically we're all breaking the law. We simply try not to get caught. Ever play hide-n-seek with your parents when they're not really looking for you?

One of the reasons I believe white officers take it easier on other whites far more often is because they are aware of the economic impact of a ticket or arrest. My first arrest I was a pretty new driver, I think it was my second year of college. I got a ticket and I was told by the officer if I paid before the court date I wouldn't have to show up in court. Guess what? I paid it. However, apparently that fact wasn't communicated from one arm to the other and I ended up with a warrant 6 months later. I was arrested in the morning right before work and held in temporary holding for about 8 hours before finally giving up and letting them put me in housing (jail cell) were I spent another 2-4 hours before my uncle came. Everyone I talked to that day was there because of FTA (failure to appear in court). A LOT of people are in jail because of FTA.

theappeal.org/the-failure-to-appear-fallacy/

The problem is, once you're "in the system", there are gotchas that make it more difficult for your economic survival. That first time, I was in jail for a day. I didn't lose my job but I could have. The second time I got arrested (different red car; this time a luxury model) I was driving under an expired tag. Again... not a criminal. A lot of people slip up on traffic violations just like a lot of people speed. So I got arrested on a Thursday and didn't get out until I think Wednesday of the next week and the reason wasn't because I didn't post bail. It was because some judge wanted to put me on home detention until the hearing. I asked around it is something this particular judge does a lot. Of course the population in the jail was mostly African Americans. There were only 2 guys that were in charge of home detention and so they just couldn't get to me. Of course people can always say "hey it was your fault" but if you lose your job (and fortunately I had a good job where I was important enough that the owner didn't want to lose me) over something so petty you're still going to be angry that it was handled that way. And I wont get into the cost of everything in jail, from ramen noodles to phone calls. Money gets taken out of these people and their families pockets while at the same time the incarcerated person cannot work, cannot support anyone, and if they had a job going in may not have a job to come to once out. Not to mention all the court costs and everything. I understand why a lot of people feel harassed by the system.

The alarm went off at my parents church while I was home from college. I didn't want my dad going alone so I went ahead of him. I had no idea the cop would think I was the actual suspect when it was the church that I had grown up in. But it didn't matter what I said. He was determined to arrest me; had me face down on the concrete with his knee in my back (as if it was necessary). Fortunately my father arrived before he could take me to jail. And at this point you couldn't even say I fit the description because no one saw who did it.

What I went through was nothing compared to other people. So I would say its not a zero sum proposition. It's not racism OR poverty. It's both and both things feed on each other to create a cycle of economic depression. When you have a jail system and private prisons housing over a million black men who can't feed or support their families, a lot of people turn to crime (selling drugs) in order to survive in the wake of those missing people. Until they too get caught. And when people in the community go missing the community learns that the system isn't there to help them, but rather to hold them down. Why was the sentencing for crack different from cocaine, for example? Why is it that the opioid epidemic treated more so as a health issue now that it affects so many whites?

If you look at many parts of the world where poverty exists you're not going to get a clear answer that poverty = crime. This is because you have to account for inequality and cost of living. I've been to a third world country before. Poverty does play a role but so does policing. And policing can have an economic impact because all the money they're bringing in from tickets and court costs and fees and fines and commissary is all a redistribution of wealth while at the same time making it harder for people to live and work. And because people have a harder time living and working its seems you risk going to jail and losing your income either way. And what if you get kicked out of school, lose a scholarship, can't beat a case, or you plead guilty because the officer planted evidence and you don't want to lose more time by fighting it? etc. By simply policing one group of people more and not using the same amount of discretion you can institutionalize racism. And I haven't talked about how lenient judges can be with one group vs another. So there's multiple levels where people in authority can be lenient and the same number of levels where they can be more punitive.

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08 Jul 2019 22:24 #340328 by VixensVengeance
You make some interesting points Zealotx. I definitely know what you mean about red cars! The only red car I owned I seemed to get a prolific amount of tickets with! So right with ya there. I also think it is impossible to get away from specific bias when it comes to individuals and all situations. Of course cops are human and can be influenced and sometimes they will go with hunches or they will let a grandma off the hook on a misdemeanor. I think that stuff happens all the time. I have had cops give me a warning on a month old expired tag and another cop give me a ticket for a week old expired tag. It depends a lot on the cop, your situation and the sort of day they are having. I have gotten a ticket for speeding 5 miles over the limit and also been given just a warning for 25 miles over the limit after I explained to the cop that my dog was in the back seat puking his guts out and I was on the way to the emergency vet. The point is that in every one of these cases the cop never exceeded his authority and was within his sworn duty to uphold the law, whether I was punished or let go.

These sorts of situations always have to be dynamically evaluated by each individual cop and different ones will arrive at different conclusions. but I also believe they try to be as fair as possible, which means they do not generally engage in the sort of systematic racism you are describing. Each time you were arrested you were actually guilty of a crime (civil offense) and they had the right to take you to jail. I dont think its fair for you to claim you were singled out because you were a minority after this fact. And the one time you were almost arrested the cop had just cause to detain you they way he did. Cops do some of the most dangerous jobs in the world and they do what they do not only for their protection but for yours. If you had been left free and then made an innocent yet provocative move he might have shot you. That would not be good for anyone and the fact that he put you in cuffs until he sorted the situation kept that from happening. I see it as a positive thing. This sort of behaviour has nothing to do with racism but simple caution.

I also never said poverty equals crime. all I did suggest was that poverty in the US may lead to feelings of helplessness or even desperation and that may lead stupid decisions like turning to crime as a way out. Usually a bad decision on the part of the perpetrator but you wont be able to tell them that before hand unless we get them better education and training and help to get out of the situation. This is not a matter of keeping them down through racism but just ignoring their problems in indifference.

The point of my question was to see if we could maybe shift the focus from the cries of systematic racism that only serve to perpetuate the very thing being cried as fowl and instead begin to come together to try and focus on some of the more pertinent and what I feel are real issues in the US when it comes to such things. We are all human and we all make mistakes and we are all guilty of bias from time to time. But to take that and inflate it into something like a claim of systematic racism I think is wrong. Im sorry you have felt some of your experiences were unfair. I think we have all been there. But I wonder if we can take those things and just see them for what they may actually be, just unfair, instead of making it about something in an excuse of racism that it is really not?

Solve' et coagula

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08 Jul 2019 23:52 - 08 Jul 2019 23:55 #340329 by Adder
I once owned a sports car, and I remember one day the Police pulled me over... and said they'd been following me for 20 minutes :D
I had done nothing wrong the whole time.... until about 5mins from home, when it threw some flames and made too much noise on a downshift!

Policing is to a large extent reactionary, which means the offender has the advantage of surprise in all its facets, such as placement, timing, confusion etc. So Police most of the time don't know what is what, and whom is who... so they have to go off peoples behaviour.... therefore it should be easy to accept that if people act belligerent or like criminals, then they are going to react as if they are likely a criminal. The theoretically correct way to view Police IMO is as helpful people doing a dangerous job and to comply and assist them in the conduct of that as a duty to society, and so they can get on with doing it where it more likely needs doing. This inevitably and logically means poorer areas are going to have a higher likelihood of criminals, and in countries with relaxed gun laws it would mean a higher chance of their being a gun or two all the time. They can't do their job if they are dead.

Was I doing anything wrong, no. Was I driving a bright yellow 2 door coupe turbocharged with flared wheel arches filled out on only 13 inch rims with black as black window tints and front and rear spoilers which could have been spa baths, yea. So they had a job to police dangerous driving and given the options.... I was probably asking for the attention. Fair play, since I did end up giving them enough to book me.

As I think its more then fair to say they do look for percentages.... signs that might point to something being predisposed. Like in the other thread about offensive labels, using foul language might not make one a bad person but it might be the same behaviour bad people exhibit.... and therefore lead others to see you as likely being one. In the absence of better (and therefore more intrusive) intelligence I'm not sure we'd really benefit from them being less engaged... in terms of effectiveness against actual crime. So it actually does come down to concepts about 'civilization', and being 'civilized' in the context of communities behaving in ways which reduce fear and increase the effectiveness of the controls to that end, such as Police. Provision of services and such.... and it might be lost in cultural shift of the meaning of words, but the labels for less complex forms of society are not inherently derogatory. Calling something a shithole is though.... lol. What is important is accuracy in providing context and in the same way when providing statistics, they only have real meaning in the context of all the factors impacting them. It's the difference between a picked cherry and a baked pie, one has a hell of a lot more value and the other one just draws attention to itself in the moment by being shiny and vulnerable.

Jou ~ Deg ~ Vlo ~ Sem ~ Mod ~ Med
TM: Grand Master Mark Anjuu
Last edit: 08 Jul 2019 23:55 by Adder.

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09 Jul 2019 14:17 #340330 by ZealotX

VixensVengeance wrote: You make some interesting points Zealotx. I definitely know what you mean about red cars! The only red car I owned I seemed to get a prolific amount of tickets with! So right with ya there. I also think it is impossible to get away from specific bias when it comes to individuals and all situations. Of course cops are human and can be influenced and sometimes they will go with hunches or they will let a grandma off the hook on a misdemeanor. I think that stuff happens all the time. I have had cops give me a warning on a month old expired tag and another cop give me a ticket for a week old expired tag. It depends a lot on the cop, your situation and the sort of day they are having. I have gotten a ticket for speeding 5 miles over the limit and also been given just a warning for 25 miles over the limit after I explained to the cop that my dog was in the back seat puking his guts out and I was on the way to the emergency vet. The point is that in every one of these cases the cop never exceeded his authority and was within his sworn duty to uphold the law, whether I was punished or let go.


This is why changes don't happen. Good people go by their own experiences and don't hold cops to account for the experiences of others. My point was that I'm 'more likely' to be treated as a criminal, "more likely" to be stopped, "more likely" to get asked if they can search my car, more likely to be followed, etc. These things happen to everyone, but it's "more likely" to happen to some people more than others. THAT is what makes it unfair. Why should a grandma get off? Shouldn't she know better? I'm not saying more grand parents should be locked up. What I am saying is that everyone should be treated equally because the more you play favorites the more your biases will dictate who you do favors for. And if you can't meet your quota because of all the favors you do then maybe you make it up by going after people you're not inclined to do favors for.

VixensVengeance wrote: These sorts of situations always have to be dynamically evaluated by each individual cop and different ones will arrive at different conclusions. but I also believe they try to be as fair as possible, which means they do not generally engage in the sort of systematic racism you are describing. Each time you were arrested you were actually guilty of a crime (civil offense) and they had the right to take you to jail. I dont think its fair for you to claim you were singled out because you were a minority after this fact. And the one time you were almost arrested the cop had just cause to detain you they way he did. Cops do some of the most dangerous jobs in the world and they do what they do not only for their protection but for yours. If you had been left free and then made an innocent yet provocative move he might have shot you. That would not be good for anyone and the fact that he put you in cuffs until he sorted the situation kept that from happening. I see it as a positive thing. This sort of behaviour has nothing to do with racism but simple caution.


You also have to consider that cops are just like people. Not all people are racist. Not all people AREN'T racist. I can give you personal stories to back that up. The more isolated a community is the more likely you'll find racists there. The more integrated a community is the less opportunity racism has to thrive and spread socially. And in more integrated communities racism is far more discreet because they're used to (unless they're drunk) consciously trying not to be overheard or create awkward or potentially combative social situations. However, when you change those environmental variables, for example... small number of black kids in a mostly white school district, and viola... racism emerges because those people has less fear of revealing their racial bias and everything they've been taught by their parents. Again... this is from the real life experience of myself and my kids. All people aren't racist. However, all people aren't NOT racist either. Many of the people who are racists also have jobs. What kind of jobs? All kinds of jobs. Including police officers, judges, politicians, etc.

Google "Mark Fuhrman tapes"

The thing is that if you ask most people if they're racist they will say "no". Mark Fuhrman lied under oath. He denied using racial slurs at any point during the past 10 years.

www.bustle.com/articles/150320-transcrip...a-blow-to-the-states

Remember what I said about isolation?

Fuhrman: "We have no n*****s where I grew up."
"That's where n*****s live."

The following racists statements are bred in isolation but don't always stay in those places.

"N***** drivin' a Porsche that doesn't look like he's got a $300 suit on, you always stop him."
"First thing, anything out of a n****r's mouth for the first five or six sentences is a (expletive) lie."
"People there don't want n*****s in their town."
"We've got females and dumb n*****s and all your Mexicans that can't even write the name of the car they drive."
"He got all this money going to Ethiopia... To feed a bunch of dumb n*****s that their own government won't even feed."

This is one officer... one officer that was recorded and got caught. The best thing to happen to black people for a long time as it relates to the police is the advent of the cellphone camera. And then those recordings started exposing other Mark Fuhrmans out there to the point that many places instituted body cams on cops. There has even been at least one instance where a police officer forgot to turn his cam off and got caught planting evidence in order to convict an innocent black person. These stories have always happened but without proof. Black people have always known, as a community, because we share our stories with each other while whites were indifferent because they just assumed, by their own experiences with police, that there was nothing wrong and that we must be imagining things. Especially when it's only one person telling their story you can always say maybe the cop was just having a bad day. In reality, the difference between a regular cop having a bad day and a racist cop having a good day isn't all that different if you're black and on the receiving end. And please don't let a racist cop have a bad day. If you're white you may not even know it. If you're black, you may not survive it. That's the difference.

Have you ever heard the term "humble" in law enforcement? That's basically when (typically racist) cops teach young African Americans that they should "respect" them and it's all fear based. You might get a stop and frisk (which the statistics don't lie - this practice has been known for a long time to target minorities). The officer(s) may even try to provoke you into doing something they can then use as an excuse to beat you into submission. These things only end up in certain, more gritty, TV shows like "The Wire" or "The Shield". So it's not widely known in all sectors of society. That's why when Black Lives Matter started speaking out a lot of people were surprised by it and attacked it instead of asking why it needed to exist because MAYBE there was a problem in law enforcement.

To fully understand the situation you have to understand why police get away with it and why and how they are even encouraged to do it. You can find that here:

www.vox.com/2016/7/8/12128858/police-racism-officers-admit

“When you put any type of numbers on a police officer to perform, we are going to go to the most vulnerable,” Adhyl Polanco, a New York City police officer, said. “We’re going to [the] LGBT community, we’re going to the black community, we’re going to go to those people that have no boat, that have no power.”

This isn’t a new allegation for the New York City Police Department. A court previously shut down the agency’s “stop-and-frisk” policy because it disproportionately targeted minority communities.


www.vox.com/2015/5/31/17937860/justice-d...chael-brown-shooting

In a searing report released in March 2015, the US Department of Justice uncovered a pattern of racial bias in the Ferguson Police Department. And it argued that the disparities could only be explained, at least in part, by unlawful bias and stereotypes against African Americans.

The disparities were rooted in the city’s reliance on the police department and courts for local budget revenue: Federal officials found that city officials worked together at every level of enforcement — from city management to the local prosecutor to the police department — to make as much money from fines and court fees as possible, ranging from schemes to raise total fines for municipal code violations to asking cops to write as many citations as possible.


I encourage you to read these articles in their entirety and then consider the number of times you were let go without a ticket; perhaps even times when you could have been arrested but they let you go. It's not like I never just get warnings either. I remember when a female officer let me go on a suspended license. I just couldn't drive it. And at the time I had severe groin pull so I could barely walk. I'm just talking about likelihoods when dealing with racially biased police officers. Again... not everyone is racist therefore not every officer is racist. But some are. And when you have them at EVERY LEVEL of government and when they're police captains and chiefs they can make even non-racist cops target minorities. This is what makes it "institutional racism". As much as you may think the police try to be as fair as possible this simply cannot be applied to every person. Not every person in general strives for fairness in ANY job. People suck and they suck in MANY jobs. That's why companies often record phone calls to keep customer service reps on their toes. They police their own workers to raise their level of performance. For over a hundred years we weren't policing our police. So how would anyone know if they were fair? Because they're police? It's a job. It seems special because we're not cops ourselves and they have a dangerous and important job.

Like every other job, it doesn't make them better people nor does it prevent bad or corrupt people from applying or being hired. And just like with Mark Fuhrman, the bad cops don't actually want to be caught and don't care how fair we think police officers should be. They don't give a crap about that. They want the power. And they'll use it however they see fit. And that's the problem. Suggesting police officers are fair is like saying Congressmen are honest. You have to hold them to account if you want them to tell fewer lies because their strange relationship with the truth is often a consequence of mass appeal. They do it as long as they can get away with it. Similarly, cops don't need mass appeal. As long as they're nice and fair to one group of people they don't have to be to another because those "others" do not control their pay check and more likely than not can't do anything to get them prosecuted or fired. And so they also do it as long as they can get away with it. Public opinion though makes this tricky. Some people want to protect the cops because, like you, they think they're fair and there's no problem and people are imagining racial bias. And so before we, who are getting shot, beat, stopped and frisked, harassed, picked on for being in the "wrong" neighborhood, etc. can actually stop them from getting away with everything we have to get more public opinion on our side so that the police can't hide behind it and constantly get off, aided by the grand jury process.

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