What Religion Is Not

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27 Jun 2019 17:42 #340076 by Athena_Undomiel

Manu wrote:

Athena_Undomiel wrote: Typically it is the practice that should be the focus, not necessarily the belief. If a person is being a "good" human being, what does it matter where the credit goes? I think that some people get hung up on the belief aspect, and lose sight of the action, where religion is concerned. If a person does good deeds and is truly selfless, does it matter what they believe or who's name they are committing these acts in? Can we not give credit where credit is due? To the individual? I think that's what draws some to Jediism, why does someone else need credit for my deeds, for my selflessness, why can I not have the credit for being a good person? Jediism allows for the individual to accept and acknowledge their individual choices.


Considering that mainstream Christianity teaches us that we can only be saved through God's Grace, and that heaven is not bought with good deeds but through faith, what you or I think the focus should be is irrelevant when some fanatic who takes the Bible literally wants to condemn someone for thinking differently. That certainly isn't the ideal of what Jesus meant his followers to be, but it is the reality of what those followers are nowadays.


Interesting that you should automatically come to defense of mainstream Christianity, Manu. There was no intended target but most "religions" or "faiths" do tend to have an essence of selflessness at their center. Including Jediism. As stated in the OP, Christianity is the only modern religion that behaves in such a manner (faith over deeds). That makes it unique, but not singular (or necessarily correct either). Decent people being decent people should not have to give credit for their hearts and virtues to an unseen deity, IMO.

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27 Jun 2019 17:54 - 27 Jun 2019 17:56 #340077 by Proteus
Replied by Proteus on topic What Religion Is Not
(double post, sorry. Next post is my reply)

It seems that I know that I know.
What I would like to see is the 'I' that knows me when I know that I know that I know.
- Alan Watts
Last edit: 27 Jun 2019 17:56 by Proteus.

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27 Jun 2019 17:55 - 27 Jun 2019 18:03 #340078 by Proteus
Replied by Proteus on topic What Religion Is Not
I think Manu is referring to the common beliefs of mainstream Christianity such as Baptists. Most main denominations are primarily orthodoxic in nature (right belief gets you "saved"). That is what orthodoxic religion teaches (us, meaning anyone of us who talks to those who evangelize it).

The article is relevant to the intention of Jediism because Jediism is mainly concerned with right action (orthopraxy) over right belief (orthodoxy). The statements of this excerpt elaborates that orthopraxy is understood to be the default nature of religions before the abrahamic movement began.

The kind of paradox that I run into here however is the understanding that actions seem to be naturally born out of belief, particularly beliefs naturally developed even outside of religion.

It seems that I know that I know.
What I would like to see is the 'I' that knows me when I know that I know that I know.
- Alan Watts
Last edit: 27 Jun 2019 18:03 by Proteus.
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27 Jun 2019 18:06 #340080 by Carlos.Martinez3

Proteus wrote: (double post, sorry. Next post is my reply)







Had to... lol

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27 Jun 2019 18:08 #340081 by Manu
Replied by Manu on topic What Religion Is Not

Athena_Undomiel wrote: Interesting that you should automatically come to defense of mainstream Christianity, Manu. There was no intended target but most "religions" or "faiths" do tend to have an essence of selflessness at their center. Including Jediism. As stated in the OP, Christianity is the only modern religion that behaves in such a manner (faith over deeds). That makes it unique, but not singular (or necessarily correct either). Decent people being decent people should not have to give credit for their hearts and virtues to an unseen deity, IMO.


Defense? If anything, I was attacking it, haha. :silly:

The reason I mention Christianity is because I would bet most of the western world grew up with its influence (as opposed to the influence of Islam or Judaism). All protestant Christianity is based on salvation through faith not deeds, and even Roman Catholicism excuses bad deeds if the intention is good (entry to Heaven via the Last Rite is an example of this).

As Proteus says, the article is extremely relevant to Jediism because most newcomers (and some not so new) will spend a tremendous amount of time on the "what do Jedi believe/think about ..." type of questions, because, under the influence of Christianity, that is probably all they have come to expect from religion (that is why telling someone you are a Jedi will usually get you ridiculous questions such as "you know Star Wars is a movie, right?" or "do you worship Yoda?" and also the not so ridiculous "do Jedi believe in an afterlife?" or "can a Jedi get married?" and so on.

We are used to the idea of a Deity who rules us, and His rules to follow, so the progression to Jediism is usually not smooth. People get confused when they have no master to serve, and no clear rules to follow.

If your compassion does not include yourself, it is incomplete.

TM: Bruno Moreira (Kyber) | Public Journal
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27 Jun 2019 18:50 #340083 by Br. John
Replied by Br. John on topic What Religion Is Not

Manu wrote:

Athena_Undomiel wrote: Typically it is the practice that should be the focus, not necessarily the belief. If a person is being a "good" human being, what does it matter where the credit goes? I think that some people get hung up on the belief aspect, and lose sight of the action, where religion is concerned. If a person does good deeds and is truly selfless, does it matter what they believe or who's name they are committing these acts in? Can we not give credit where credit is due? To the individual? I think that's what draws some to Jediism, why does someone else need credit for my deeds, for my selflessness, why can I not have the credit for being a good person? Jediism allows for the individual to accept and acknowledge their individual choices.


Considering that mainstream Christianity teaches us that we can only be saved through God's Grace, and that heaven is not bought with good deeds but through faith, what you or I think the focus should be is irrelevant when some fanatic who takes the Bible literally wants to condemn someone for thinking differently. That certainly isn't the ideal of what Jesus meant his followers to be, but it is the reality of what those followers are nowadays.


I've noticed many who call themselves Christians have either missed this part or ignore it.

The Final Judgment Matthew 25

31 “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit on his glorious throne. Before him will be gathered all the nations, and he will separate people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 And he will place the sheep on his right, but the goats on the left. Then othe King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you qwho are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, 36 I was naked and you clothed me, I was sick and you visited me, aI was in prison and you came to me.’ 37 Then the righteous will answer him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you drink? 38 And when did we see you a stranger and welcome you, or naked and clothe you? 39 And when did we see you sick or in prison and visit you?’ 40 And the King will answer them, c‘Truly, I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of these my brothers,6 you did it to me.’

41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For iI was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not welcome me, naked and you did not clothe me, sick and in prison and you did not visit me.’ 44 Then they also will answer, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to you?’ 45 Then he will answer them, saying, ‘Truly, I say to you, as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me.’ 46 And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous kinto leternal life.”

www.esv.org/Matthew+25/

According to the Arabic proverb, there are no such things as a Phoenix, a Ghoul, or a True Bosom Friend, but I say to you that I found them all among my neighbors. ~ Kahlil Gibran
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