Accountability of the laws spirit beyond its letter

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22 Jun 2019 14:44 #339958 by Manu
The trend I see is that an argument may go on for a while on a thread, and after the completely subjective “enough is enough” point has been reached (which coincidentally matches an unliked individual making comebacks), the thread will be locked. The result is that five more threads are born from that one, and the conversations continues anyway.

Also, I think the flaw in moderation is that there is indeed this “I know better than you” which is implied by comparing members to children. In my experience, when you treat people like children, they behave more like children (you actually reinforce the behavior, not change it).

Long-term consistency trumps short term intensity
- Bruce Lee
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23 Jun 2019 09:08 #339964 by Adder
Its not all about them though...... and more about it snowballing beyond a capacity for moderation IMO, in those few and far between threads that have a lock.

Jou ~ Deg ~ Vlo ~ Sem ~ Mod ~ Med
TM: Grand Master Mark Anjuu
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23 Jun 2019 15:01 #339966 by Manu
Indeed, it is not all about them.

But what about the rest? What happens with the member who starts to swell up with anger and frustration, who doesn't know how to deal with these theoretically "toxic" people? What resources and techniques are being transfered to them here? Because last I checked, there is no "lock thread" option in the offline world, nor an effective way of banning people we don't like without creating tribalism in the longer term.

I've seen senior members absolutely lose their cool here. And though I am quite aware that we are all human, and any of us can have a bad day, the fact that a senior member, who reads a post and could absolutely walk away and come back to it cooler, instead chooses to engage in the hostile manner they are criticizing, tells me that not enough emotional intelligence training might be going around here.

In a setting where people are transparent and self-aware enough to keep their cool, the rare "troll" that may appear dies out due to a lack of attention feeding it's MO. Senior members losing it and moderators locking threads just send a signal that the troll's MO is working.

Long-term consistency trumps short term intensity
- Bruce Lee
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23 Jun 2019 21:25 - 23 Jun 2019 22:39 #339971 by Adder
It would be great if it were true, but as ren pointed out recently it becomes the only activity if left unchecked. Depends what we want out the joint, but if one poops in the living room, everyone else tends to leave. So I think exaggerating 'working goals that define a places purpose' with idealism as an excuse to assert hypocrisy is an overreach?

It doesnt happen often, so its not like conflicts are banned....

Jou ~ Deg ~ Vlo ~ Sem ~ Mod ~ Med
TM: Grand Master Mark Anjuu
Last edit: 23 Jun 2019 22:39 by Adder.
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25 Jun 2019 20:40 #340027 by ZealotX

Adder wrote: Its not all about them though...... and more about it snowballing beyond a capacity for moderation IMO, in those few and far between threads that have a lock.


Personally, I think the moderators are almost being set up to some extent. TOTJO's doctrines point to the acceptance of certain kinds of behavior and offer Jediism as a check and balance on the opposite behavior.

for example:

9. Jedi have integrity. We are authentic to what we believe and are open, honest and true to our purpose and our minds. We remove all masks to reveal ourselves as courageous and noble of heart. We do not hide from fear of damage to our image because we know that our image cannot be blemished from the words and actions of others.

10. Jedi serve in many ways. Each action performed, no matter the scale, influences the world. With this in mind Jedi perform each action with peace, caring, love, compassion and humility. So it is that each Jedi improves the world with each deed they perform.


However, depending on who you are you don't seem to need to live up to these standards. It seems like we're trying to have a big tent and accommodate everyone's vision of what Jedi means to them. That's why I appreciated Kyrin because she kept people honest. When everything can be called Jediism then Jediism is nothing at all. Just like if a trophy or rank is easily obtained it loses meaning. And when there's no clear standard that yields disciplinary action apart from forum rules then at the end of the day, imho, it's like we're asking moderators to moderate all the conflicts that arise from different Jedi paths that we accept here, with a flash light instead of a light saber. And the more each person represents paths that are naturally in conflict the more they're going to be under scrutiny and the more they may hold back in stead of risking the disapproval of the mods. So not policing can cause people to leave and over-policing can cause people to avoid posting.

I'm someone who believes there are conflicts worth having and things that are worth saying even if they're not going to feel good or be received well. The truth can hurt. No one said it was supposed to feel good. And at the same time, I think mods will eventually get worn out and it will be naturally easier to take more forceful action rather than verbal mediation, deescalation, and offering guidance. And if a mod can't see the whole discussion from A to Z it can be hard sometimes to tell who's at fault or why this person or that person got triggered. This thread is a good example because even though I know when a certain person got triggered, not everyone else does.

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26 Jun 2019 13:25 #340034 by Manu

Adder wrote: Depends what we want out the joint, but if one poops in the living room, everyone else tends to leave.


Is "poop in the living room" a good metaphor for 'hostile' interactions?

Adder wrote: So I think exaggerating 'working goals that define a places purpose' with idealism as an excuse to assert hypocrisy is an overreach?


Did not understand. Could you clarify?

Long-term consistency trumps short term intensity
- Bruce Lee

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26 Jun 2019 13:57 - 26 Jun 2019 14:10 #340036 by ZealotX

Manu wrote:

Adder wrote: Depends what we want out the joint, but if one poops in the living room, everyone else tends to leave.


Is "poop in the living room" a good metaphor for 'hostile' interactions?

Adder wrote: So I think exaggerating 'working goals that define a places purpose' with idealism as an excuse to assert hypocrisy is an overreach?


Did not understand. Could you clarify?


I think "pooping in the living room" is an interesting metaphor, but I think it triggers a few questions.

The act of pooping itself is natural and okay, so as long as one does it in private? and flushes (covers it up) its fine?

Some people use PMs to get around forum policy. They "can't hold it" like they have 'the runs' but its premeditated to the extent of choosing private communication to avoid everyone smelling their stink. They can control it such that their bladder's not exploding into their clothes but once they get into the "still public" bathroom where another person might be washing their hands... Boom. (or dunk.... insert whatever sound effect here)

But pooping is a "solo act". One generally doesn't poop near someone else on purpose to burn their nostril hairs. Many people even try to hold it in a public bathroom and poop once they think they're alone (especially if they have gas).

No one wants to smell poop. Not in the living room. Not in the bathroom. Not anywhere. And if someone else smells your BO or BM such that they were offended because you didn't spray, flush, or do whatever it takes to keep your smells to yourself... then they just might talk about you when they leave the bathroom; a natural consequence of such an indiscretion. Now if you're so proud of those well formed logs that you want everyone to see/"enjoy" the excrement in its entirety... well that's something that should embarrass you but if not then I'm really not sure what to even say to that.
Last edit: 26 Jun 2019 14:10 by ZealotX.

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