Which way to defend faith (doctrine)

More
20 Mar 2019 18:33 #335979 by Erinis
Here is one big question about defend the faith,
how to figure out without cause more conflicts,

You know, Jedi keeps peace and balance. Which type of communication would you choose to you defend your faith,
Crap is to say, that others are wrong. (it´s opposite of the Jedi open mind)
Would you say; I believe it because .... and even though they disagree just let it be. Or try to show them objective reason,
which they can easily apply at life?

Or the question is rather - Which way could others attack the faith. < What would be the initiative to interpose?

I am curious at your ideas

Erinis;))°
The following user(s) said Thank You: Adder, Carlos.Martinez3

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
20 Mar 2019 18:48 #335985 by ren
You defend the faith primarily through demonstration of its superiority. If it's not superior the faith or demonstration of it is wrong.

Convictions are more dangerous foes of truth than lies.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Manu, Erinis

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
20 Mar 2019 18:59 #335989 by Carlos.Martinez3
As one who claims freedoms as a Jedi it is hard - soooo hard to be a Jedi some days with other Jedi whomare not me. That’s the whole pot of chicken when I think about it really - when people begin to see people as not labels but people - I realized when I did, that we are beautiful and different or I could see the same thing as different and all wrong. One of the things I encourage others in my ministry is to realize one of the hardest things for a jedi tonget is that as soon as you realize you are you - As soon as I realized I was me- I realized no one was me. I can only speak for me but the balance and the peace had to - for me/ come to me first. To balance and have peace with just that - no one is like me. That’s ok. That’s how it is. The balance and peace came from applying that and figuring out how I was gunna act and or think when moments cane time to act. A tough thing when character comes to call. What type of character do I want to display ?where do I find good character and what do I do with it when I find it. My personal path seeks these type of things out as part of my balance of peace and balance.

My practice is as I seek - in the mist or during life - that’s when I apply my teaching - the moments my people need love that’s the moment I give it. When they need it - when there is none. That’s where character can be built. One of the more frequent ways anyway - there are many other ways of course but that’s my frequent and my go to. How do I defend my faith that gives me freedoms - by giving others theirs as well.
That’s me. Thank you for your question and your time!
May the Force continue to find you as you seek it , see you there ! Smiley face

Contact The Clergy
Pastor of Temple of the Jedi Order
This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
The Block
Build, not tear down.
Nosce te ipsum / Cerca trova
The following user(s) said Thank You: Erinis

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
20 Mar 2019 20:35 - 20 Mar 2019 21:02 #335999 by Gisteron
Faith is in my opinion a notoriously unreliable means to arrive at anything, and a profoundly poor way to defend that position also. When we are challenged to explain why we believe any given thing or to justify the belief to ourselves or to others, we either mention faith in passing, as an incorrigible addendum to otherwise fine reasoning if we have any, or we name it as the only thing when we don't. Of the three languages I speak only in English does faith have a different word than belief. When someone says to me that they believe something on faith, all I can hear - and it is all, for I cannot hear it another way if that is how they put it - is that they believe it literally "as a matter of belief", i.e. because they just do.
One hears it argued often that everybody has faith and it never isn't an equivocation, where what everybody has is either some kind of justified trust or faithfulness, conveniently lumped in together with the faith in dispute because the language happens to provide a common word for them all. I do not have faith. I do not think that faith is a defensible and wouldn't make an attempt at it either.
The Jedi Code makes no explicit or unambiguously implicit mention of faith. It is not until after a layer or more of interpretation that one can read any statement about faith in it. But then again, my Jediism is "a philosophy, not a religion" in just the same way in which the religion that famous sound bite was used to describe isn't. I do not believe that the Code, and so I wouldn't answer a challenge to it as a belief. One can ask me why I follow it to the extent to which I do, or what reason anyone else might have to do it also, or to what extent I believe that to be a good course of action by what ever metric of goodness is employed. But none of my answers would be any better to an outsider, nor would they satisfy myself any more for including a statement of faith. If reason is not what gets me to arrive or stick with the positions I hold, then they are quite literally unreasonable positions because of that and I have quite literally no reason to hold them. No amount of faith can remedy that, nor improve things if I do have reason.

Last edit: 20 Mar 2019 21:02 by Gisteron.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Manu, Williamkaede, Erinis

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
21 Mar 2019 00:51 #336003 by Williamkaede
A few years ago, in the bubbling crockpot of mediocrity™ that is the Facebook Jedi Orders, I encountered a prospective Jedi who was attempting to use the Path to justify some really petty stuff. I can't remember exactly what it was but this person had taken no steps as a Jedi in many months, and were becoming increasingly unstable and frankly, un-Jedi. When this was pointed out they immediately became defensive, claiming that "you can't tell me how to live my faith", despite the Order they were a part of supposedly having a code of conduct and standards of behaviour and effort.

I don't support Jedi as a religion - I am of the belief that it works best as a philosophy, as something that can be lived, and added to and taken from. Having it as a faith, as a system of belief, makes it really challenging to critically assess and reflect upon.

Passion, authenticity, power, victory.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Manu, Gisteron, Erinis

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
21 Mar 2019 13:51 #336046 by Manu
In general, the way in which I have most often become discouraged by religions is by its members. Many members claiming a faith (belief system) twist their doctrine to justify acting in ways that contradict the main tenants of their doctrine.

Thus, the best way of attacking Jediism (whether you consider it a religion or a philosophy) is to get its members to act un-Jedi. Conversely, the best way to defend it, is to actually be a Jedi and lead by example.

“Remember, rewards come in action, not in discussion.” Tony Robbins
The following user(s) said Thank You: Carlos.Martinez3, Erinis

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
21 Mar 2019 15:24 - 21 Mar 2019 15:29 #336051 by Erinis

Carlos wrote: A tough thing when character comes to call. What type of character do I want to display? where do I find good character and what do I do with it when I find it. My personal path seeks these type of things out as part of my balance of peace and balance.

My practice is as I seek - in the mist or during life - that’s when I apply my teaching - the moments my people need love that’s the moment I give it. When they need it - when there is none. That’s where character can be built. One of the more frequent ways anyway - there are many other ways of course but that’s my frequent and my go to. How do I defend my faith that gives me freedoms - by giving others theirs as well.

Very well Carlos, that´s it!
Through the bahavior,speech and dealing with others we can defend our faith - because that is what we display, thus a Jediism´s faith. Thanks this, we live in the harmony with
Jedi doctrine. And our attitude is guided by the principles of TotJO.

Manu wrote: In general, the way in which I have most often become discouraged by religions is by its members. Many members claiming a faith (belief system) twist their doctrine to justify acting in ways that contradict the main tenants of their doctrine.

I know what you mean and yes you are partly right. When we speak about defending the faith, it can looks like the religion fundamentalism, However, the defend a faith,
doesn´t need to be aggressive < which is the persist idea, when comes to > defend a faith. It mustn´t be aggresive defence, otherwise it would be a contradiction of Jediism.
The key is to keep control over our behavior and act in harmony with Jediism philosophy. Jedi uses the Force for knowledge and defense never for attack.

Erinis;))°
Last edit: 21 Mar 2019 15:29 by Erinis.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Carlos.Martinez3

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
21 Mar 2019 23:12 - 22 Mar 2019 00:30 #336072 by Adder
Defence is an opportunity to educate without being proselytizing; so yea demonstrate and explain for the purposes of creating an opportunity for them to understand at least where your coming from, but not to convince them. Basically view attack as a really primitive way of them trying to initiate and hold an interaction... so don't reply in kind as a reaction, but rather stay on path and act to that in responding. And if they keep an attack up for some reason, then they'll probably shift from your path to your person because they'll have created a context sufficient for them to justify their disagreement - and its much easier to attack a person then a bunch of concepts.

Temple Security Team ~ Moderator
TM: Grand Master Mark Anjuu
Jou ~ Deg ~ Vlo ~ Sem ~ Mod ~ Med
'The future is already here, it's just not evenly distributed.'
Last edit: 22 Mar 2019 00:30 by Adder.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Erinis

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
22 Mar 2019 00:58 #336080 by Williamkaede
The best defender the path could ever have is in the individual who not only exemplifies the ideals of the Path and the community, but who has done so in a way that allows them to live a healthy and happy life. The proof of the path's worth is in the Jedi who, through thought, act, and belief, lives in a way congruent with the Jedi ideals.

The community is not served by armchair philosophers, fair-weather payers of lip service, or people seeking attention from the media, or a certain level of celebrity or notoriety in and out of the community.

Passion, authenticity, power, victory.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Manu

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
22 Mar 2019 15:09 #336111 by Erinis

But not to convince them. Basically view attack as a really primitive way of them trying to initiate and hold an interaction... so don't reply in kind as a reaction.

nobody spoke about attack nor view of it, could you be more specific.

Williamkaede wrote:The community is not served by armchair philosophers, fair-weather payers of lip service, or people seeking attention from the media, or a certain level of celebrity or notoriety in and out of the community

Not sure what did you meant by this.

Erinis;))°

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.