Discussing ideas, not people

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26 Mar 2019 13:39 #336312 by Khaos
Replied by Khaos on topic Discussing ideas, not people

Theres no tone of voice on the internet. We’re all separated by distance and technology so its easy to pretend like youre so far above everyone else lol. However, in face to face interactions you know damn well theres a limit to how belligerent youll allow your tone of voice to become.


Because there is no tone one shouldnt assume the level of belligerence.

Hugs and Kisses.
~Khaos~
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26 Mar 2019 14:13 #336314 by Manu
Replied by Manu on topic Discussing ideas, not people

OB1Shinobi wrote:

Manu wrote: But manners were meant for saving face lives in a society where reputation is everything.


Fixed that for you. Look man, some people take respect very seriously. Life and death level seriously. Manners is just another word for respect and it allows serious people to interact with each other without anyone getting hurt.


Can you offer an example of such a "life and death" situation within TotJO?

Manners and respect are different words, for a reason. Manners are commonly-held protocols to convey respect. Exactly what these protocols are vary according to relationship, setting and culture. For example, politics and religion are traditionally taboo topics at the dinner table. But I am sure most can agree that this place is designed to talk about those topics. A drill sergeant might yell at new recruits as part of their training, but he won't do the same to his five year old daughter at home.

I do agree with the general idea that a smart person makes a point of at least "reading" the overall culture before making a decision on how to approach conversation. But if we are talking about accepting that some people are "well-mannered" in their conversations, we should also accept that some people are not... and that is OK.

If your compassion does not include yourself, it is incomplete.

TM: Bruno Moreira (Kyber) | Public Journal
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26 Mar 2019 15:42 #336317 by Kyrin Wyldstar

Proteus wrote: I don't reckon that this temple is here to be a filter for "only the strong". I'm pretty sure there is an intention for helping those you might consider weak grow into being strong.


Ahh, yes I agree. You are right, our society is much more complex than simple survival of the fittest dynamics. We are a social species and we care for the well being of others. But by that same token we cant help everyone. Some are beyond help, others do not want help. What do we do with those? If we coddle those sorts of people it will only serve to drive our societies further into mediocrity rather than excellence. Promising economic security to those unwilling to work for it is just not a way forward. So those people must be let go. That's what I'm talking about, the acceptance of the natural social hierarchy every species on this planet participates in. There is a balance there that must be respected.

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26 Mar 2019 15:52 #336318 by Kyrin Wyldstar

FollowerOfDeimos wrote: While we are indeed animals, as it would be most unwise to suggest otherwise, we are more complex and evolved than our lesser animal friends.


You do not understand evolution. Evolution has no goal and complexity is not its paramount. In fact we are not the most complex animal on earth. We have one of the most complex brain structures and it has allowed us to thrive in our niche. But emotionally speaking we are not the most complex. Dolphins and chimps also express as complex an emotional and intellectual prowess as we do. But were we to be thrown into nature naked and toolless most of us would not survive. As far as biological complexity actually the most complex animal on earth is a tiny water fly. It has 31,000 genes, which is about 25% more than ours and it can adapt its body to cope with stresses that it frequently undergoes by forming helmets as well as spines or teeth as a defense mechanism against other predators.

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26 Mar 2019 15:57 - 26 Mar 2019 16:10 #336319 by Kyrin Wyldstar

Stormcaller wrote:
Raeganomics is not the natural order of our species; science and other fields filled with people who actually know more than us on this basic concept consistently show, yeah, we like to compete and push ourselves and others, but we also didn't make it this far by eating each other or abandoning the weak.


Interesting comment from a person that told me not two days ago that they wanted me to just go away because I was a liar and full of shit.

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Last edit: 26 Mar 2019 16:10 by Kyrin Wyldstar.

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26 Mar 2019 16:33 #336321 by Williamkaede
Altruism and reciprocal altruism feature often in evolutionary behaviour models. If I recall correctly, vampire bats are known for sharing blood from hunts, but as a collective, will refuse to share with greedy bats who don't share.

Passion, authenticity, power, victory.
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26 Mar 2019 16:39 #336322 by Kelrax Lorcken

Kyrin Wyldstar wrote:

Stormcaller wrote:
Raeganomics is not the natural order of our species; science and other fields filled with people who actually know more than us on this basic concept consistently show, yeah, we like to compete and push ourselves and others, but we also didn't make it this far by eating each other or abandoning the weak.


Interesting comment from a person that told me not two days ago that they wanted me to just go away because I was a liar and full of shit.


Indeed, I have specifically been nasty to you, but does that in itself invalidate my argument in this, a different discussion? (It certainly reminds me that an apology is in order; I hold my ground that you're misinformed and just plain wrong about a lot of things outside your actual area of knowledge, but you didn't actually deserve what I gave you, anymore than other people deserve what you give to them. That's the best olive branch you'll get from me, and the promise that I'm going to just leave you alone, going forward)

Kelrax "Stormcaller" Lorcken, Jedi Navigator
May The Force Guide You
www.templeofthejediorder.org/forum/47-Jo...-stormcaller?start=0

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26 Mar 2019 17:42 #336326 by Kyrin Wyldstar

Stormcaller wrote: Indeed, I have specifically been nasty to you, but does that in itself invalidate my argument in this, a different discussion? (It certainly reminds me that an apology is in order; I hold my ground that you're misinformed and just plain wrong about a lot of things outside your actual area of knowledge, but you didn't actually deserve what I gave you, anymore than other people deserve what you give to them. That's the best olive branch you'll get from me, and the promise that I'm going to just leave you alone, going forward)


How very magnanimous of you. But I have a question, what exactly is it that I "give to them"? [others] I have had my moments on this board but I can honestly say I have never called another person on this board a liar or full of shit. So I would equate your behaviour far worse than anything I could ever muster.

As to the topic, not sure how you would even know what my area of knowledge is, but if you feel that I am wrong about things, I expect you to challenge me with that idea and in that challenge present facts and data to back it up. I do not expect things to devolve into ad hominem attacks on my person just because you have decided you don't like me for whatever reason I'm still hoping to understand. You can hate my ideas and you can hate my positions but you have no standing to hate me. You don't even know me nor have you ever bothered to get to know me. So I am baffled by all your hostility.

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26 Mar 2019 18:12 #336329 by Arisaig
Replied by Arisaig on topic Discussing ideas, not people
ironic turn of events... discussing people over ideas in a thread thats supposed to have the topic of discussing ideas, not people. :blink:

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26 Mar 2019 19:10 #336332 by ren
Replied by ren on topic Discussing ideas, not people
I don't know when 'discussing people' appeared. There's inherently nothing wrong about it.

In my rather old post in the journals section, I mention the golden rule of discussing ideas, not PERSONALITIES.

Convictions are more dangerous foes of truth than lies.

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