Discussing ideas, not people

I'm new, so what is a tm and Zenchi? I'm a little confused and would like some clarity for sake of curiosity if I may ask for it.

FollowerOfDeimos wrote: I'm new, so what is a tm and Zenchi? I'm a little confused and would like some clarity for sake of curiosity if I may ask for it.

TM = Teaching Master, a Knight who is in the role of teaching an Apprentice.

Zenchi = cool guy. Lots of attitude. Awesome drawing skills.

FollowerOfDeimos wrote: I'm new, so what is a tm and Zenchi? I'm a little confused and would like some clarity for sake of curiosity if I may ask for it.

TM stands for Training Mentor. A knight that partners with an apprentice to teach them until knighthood. A zenchi was a knight here at one time. Although he was excommunicated for various offenses.

Kyrin Wyldstar wrote:

FollowerOfDeimos wrote: I'm new, so what is a tm and Zenchi? I'm a little confused and would like some clarity for sake of curiosity if I may ask for it.

TM stands for Training Mentor. A knight that partners with an apprentice to teach them until knighthood. A zenchi was a knight here at one time. Although he was excommunicated for various offenses.

He's still a Knight, was never excommunicated, and is twice the Jedi any of us will he.

Thanks for the clarification my fellow Jedi.

I think people normally talk about 'constructive' and 'deconstructive' input in regards to conversations, but I think these terms are best applied to processes rather then dialogue. Instead I think different measures work better, being 'limiting' versus 'freeing' are better ways to understand contributions to dialogue... in the talking about how to promote conversation.

So then the measure of openness being about creating an environment of participation, analogous perhaps to freeing being opening, and limiting being closing down.

Often someone can close down a dialogue by making assertions or judgements about things, and then even defend them rightly as constructive! But I think that is just reinforcing their own processing (where 'constructive' has more meaning) rather then actually being constructive in the context of furthering dialog. But I'm all for reductionist thought and analytical thinking, but doing it in a freeing way might be the ideal balance.

Arisaig wrote:

Kyrin Wyldstar wrote:

FollowerOfDeimos wrote: I'm new, so what is a tm and Zenchi? I'm a little confused and would like some clarity for sake of curiosity if I may ask for it.

TM stands for Training Mentor. A knight that partners with an apprentice to teach them until knighthood. A zenchi was a knight here at one time. Although he was excommunicated for various offenses.

He's still a Knight, was never excommunicated, and is twice the Jedi any of us will he.

He was excommunicated, and there's no need to insult everyone else to prop him up arisaig.

Arisaig wrote:

Kyrin Wyldstar wrote:

FollowerOfDeimos wrote: I'm new, so what is a tm and Zenchi? I'm a little confused and would like some clarity for sake of curiosity if I may ask for it.

TM stands for Training Mentor. A knight that partners with an apprentice to teach them until knighthood. A zenchi was a knight here at one time. Although he was excommunicated for various offenses.

He's still a Knight, was never excommunicated, and is twice the Jedi any of us will he.

https://www.templeofthejediorder.org/forum/open-discussions/121686-stuff-n-things-or-how-to-get-excommunicated-and-not-even-know-why-lol?start=0

Didn't insult anyone. However, he is not excommunicated, nor was the proposed excommunication carried out. He is still a Knight, still about, and still twice the jedi most can hope to be. It's not and insult, it's a fact.

In the end, Kyrin, you are wrong about this.
Accept it.

Well that thread is a good ol' fashioned dumpster fire. I'm surprised it still stands.

Regardless, I'm pretty sure this thread isn't being constructive anymore, which is a shame because it had a bloody good point to make that. Folks've definitely come back to personal drama when the point of the thread was to talk about not resorting to personal attacks when having a discussion of ideas.

You are, or at the very least, are trying to be,Jedi. Come on. If you can't be better than this, then there's some serious work to do.

Williamkaede wrote: If you can't be better than this, then there's some serious work to do.

You have definitely gotten that right! If you have a senior member of council telling you something is true and you still deny it as false just to attack another member on this board, well... my mission as a Ranger continues.

Arisaig wrote: He is still a Knight, still about, and still twice the jedi most can hope to be. It's not and insult, it's a fact.

In the end, Kyrin, you are wrong about this.
Accept it.

Ari, um, that's actually an opinion. I know you respect him as he is your TM, (everyone knows how much I look up to mine), but I'm not sure that declaring such things like that around here is going to come off very fair or mature toward others. I'm just trying to give you a suggestion of awareness.

Kyrin Wyldstar wrote:

Williamkaede wrote: If you can't be better than this, then there's some serious work to do.

You have definitely gotten that right! If you have a senior member of council telling you something is true and you still deny it as false just to attack another member on this board, well... my mission as a Ranger continues.

As far as the continuing social pattern I've seen thus far, as long as you have this so-called mission, you're probably not going to come off any more convincing or successful than the people you are pinning your mission on.

My comment wasn't remotely restricted to Arisaig or even written with him in mind. I've seen quite a few people come and go from here and it doesn't seem to be doing the quality of this Order any favours. The linked thread has quite a few names on it I'm sad to see have left. I'd be quite interested in knowing what schism TOTJO has been through this time and what site they've joined.

Incidentally - what exactly do you seek through all your instigating?

Proteus wrote:

Arisaig wrote: He is still a Knight, still about, and still twice the jedi most can hope to be. It's not and insult, it's a fact.

In the end, Kyrin, you are wrong about this.
Accept it.

Ari, um, that's actually an opinion. I know you respect him as he is your TM, (everyone knows how much I look up to mine), but I'm not sure that declaring such things like that around here is going to come off very fair or mature toward others. I'm just trying to give you a suggestion of awareness.

Fairness has nothing to do with it, when the person that I have to defend against won't hesitate to stoop to unfairness themselves. Yes, my view is biased, but it doesn't make it wrong.

Proteus wrote: As far as the continuing social pattern I've seen thus far, as long as you have this so-called mission, you're probably not going to come off any more convincing or successful than the people you are pinning your mission on.

Its not a social pattern. Its a defensive posture that I have been forced to undertake. As for my "mission" it is not pinned to anyone. Its the pursuit of truth. I have said this many many times before. Thats all it is. I think its an honest mission and a fair one. Do you see it differently?

I don't think he was saying you're wrong. I think he was saying that the verbage and phrasing was off putting and might come off as, as he put it, immature towards others. Not saying anyone's right or wrong, just saying what I see in this. And I see two differing view points as the focus that can't seem to get along, which saddens me whenever I see two+ people who are very passionate about their beliefs. Can't we all at least try to get alone and see the other side of the fence?

Kyrin Wyldstar wrote:

Proteus wrote: As far as the continuing social pattern I've seen thus far, as long as you have this so-called mission, you're probably not going to come off any more convincing or successful than the people you are pinning your mission on.

Its not a social pattern. Its a defensive posture that I have been forced to undertake. As for my "mission" it is not pinned to anyone. Its the pursuit of truth. I have said this many many times before. Thats all it is. I think its an honest mission and a fair one. Do you see it differently?

In the short time I've come back this time I haven't seen you do much more than clash with others. Is this part of your mission?

Our "missions" in a general sense are derived from how we see the world and or how we see the spaces we occuppy, something I like to call narratives.

To an individual with only a hammer, everything is a nail

Williamkaede wrote:

Kyrin Wyldstar wrote:

Proteus wrote: As far as the continuing social pattern I've seen thus far, as long as you have this so-called mission, you're probably not going to come off any more convincing or successful than the people you are pinning your mission on.

Its not a social pattern. Its a defensive posture that I have been forced to undertake. As for my "mission" it is not pinned to anyone. Its the pursuit of truth. I have said this many many times before. Thats all it is. I think its an honest mission and a fair one. Do you see it differently?

In the short time I've come back this time I haven't seen you do much more than clash with others. Is this part of your mission?

Im afraid you are going to have to be more specific? What do you mean by "clash"?