Can gift giving be selfish?

More
11 Dec 2018 14:28 #330620 by ZealotX
Replied by ZealotX on topic Can gift giving be selfish?

_Vergere_ wrote: Giving anything to anyone is always selfish. Allow me to explain.

When one gives (or more to the point, helps others) it always has an effect on the giver. In a broader sense, considering that we are all a part of a whole, a piece of the universe in which we are united, what you give to others you give to yourself, because you and I, and everyone alive are ONE.


Can you clarify further? Because under this there would be no such thing as selflessness because that would involve sacrifice/giving. And if there is no selflessness how does the opposite exist? So I admit to being confused.
The following user(s) said Thank You: OB1Shinobi, Vaziel_Sorel

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
11 Dec 2018 14:34 #330622 by _Vergere_

under this there would be no such thing as selflessness because that would involve sacrifice/giving. And if there is no selflessness how does the opposite exist?


Exactly the right question. The answer is the elimination of duality. Selfless/selfish, me/you, good/evil, light/dark...

I don't claim to have evolved beyond duality, but talking about it and putting it into practice certainly helps.


Listen well: Everything I tell you is a lie. Every question I ask is a trick.
You will find no truth in me.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
11 Dec 2018 14:58 #330624 by Carlos.Martinez3
For me - holiday time is tough. What it seems like to my family is every one is way out of balance during these times. Just the way we perceive it. Going to family get togeather sand party’s and things can take its toll on us as a family with different morals and different practices - not wrong just different. My boy asks why can’t I run around like everyone else or do the same things... he’s beginning to understand but the complexity is that every one has so many different ways - how do I be me and allow others to enjoy them selfs during the holidays.? That’s one of those million dolla questions we must be able to answer for ourselfs. My hope is that we all find or make our balance this holiday season - so to answer the question directly - anything can be selfish - intent and applications make things selfish or not in my own practice. Happy holidays and may the Force be with you as you seek or make your balance of it.

Contact The Clergy
Pastor of Temple of the Jedi Order
This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
The Block
Build, not tear down.
Nosce te ipsum / Cerca trova
The following user(s) said Thank You: Vaziel_Sorel, Kasumi

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
11 Dec 2018 23:34 #330657 by OB1Shinobi

_Vergere_ wrote: Giving anything to anyone is always selfish. Allow me to explain.

When one gives (or more to the point, helps others) it always has an effect on the giver. In a broader sense, considering that we are all a part of a whole, a piece of the universe in which we are united, what you give to others you give to yourself, because you and I, and everyone alive are ONE.



I have to say i disagree with practically every idea in this post lol. Nothing personal against you.

1) all actions “have an effect” on the person performing them, that doesnt mean a person cannot act in a selfess way. Being selfless means that you act for the benefit of the other regardless of the benefit or consequences to yourself. Maybe you will be rewarded with a good feeling or with social recognition but thats irrelevant to the original motive - which was the benefit of the other person.

2) we may be “connected” in any number of ways but we are not one identity and there is a huge separation between us. If you stub your toe, not only will it not hurt me but it might even make me laugh. Unless youre not in my field of vision when it happens, in which case i wont even know of it.

Beware of unearned wisdom.
-Carl Jung
The following user(s) said Thank You: Silvermane, ZealotX, Vaziel_Sorel, Kasumi

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
14 Dec 2018 12:21 #330874 by _Vergere_

OB1Shinobi wrote: I have to say i disagree with practically every idea in this post lol. Nothing personal against you.


Perhaps our differences are merely linguistic. But let me ask you this: where do I end and you begin? Physically, of course you may simply look at your body and see where it ends. What about mentally? Spiritually? Can you see your mind? Can you see your spirit? How far do they reach? How limited are they? ARE they limited?


Listen well: Everything I tell you is a lie. Every question I ask is a trick.
You will find no truth in me.

The following user(s) said Thank You: OB1Shinobi

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
14 Dec 2018 15:34 #330889 by Cyan Sarden
Almost everything we do is selfish to some degree. This primarily goes for planned actions - when we buy gifts for someone, we tend to have a deep-seated, partly natural expectation that or imagination that when the other person opens the present, that person's joy will make you happy as well. It's very hard work to control these expectations - in Buddhism this is a core concept (Right intention, right thought, right action). If all three of them are completely realized, selfishness is conquered.

However, I do believe that selfishness is innate to us as well, albeit on a different cognitive level - acting without hesitation, for example to save someone from a bad accident by instinctively pushing that person out of the path of an oncoming bus, could be considered truly selfless. This is also very unique to the human species. Similar phenomena can also be seen in other animals, however: the relationship between a mother (and sometimes also the father) and her child is typically a selfless one.

Do not look for happiness outside yourself. The awakened seek happiness inside.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Carlos.Martinez3, OB1Shinobi, Vaziel_Sorel

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
14 Dec 2018 16:11 #330892 by Kyrin Wyldstar

_Vergere_ wrote:

OB1Shinobi wrote: Can you see your mind? Can you see your spirit? How far do they reach? How limited are they? ARE they limited?


Yes they are absolutely limited in the sense they are not connected. Just as our bodies are limited so are these things. I cant experience your thoughts and if my spirit exists it cant feel your experiences from your point of view. What you are suggesting here is really just meaningless rhetoric.


This guns for hire, even if we're just dancing in the dark.
My Journals: Kyrin-Wyldstar

Associate Degree of Divinity - Earned July, 2017
Apprenticed to: Alan, Senan, Mendalicious
Tribute to Senan: My Friend
The following user(s) said Thank You: OB1Shinobi, Vaziel_Sorel, Kasumi

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
14 Dec 2018 16:58 #330913 by Manu
Replied by Manu on topic Can gift giving be selfish?
My question would be... even if it is or isn't selfish... so what?

Is there a point to all of this dissecting other than finding a nitty label to describe the situation?

Long-term consistency trumps short term intensity
- Bruce Lee
The following user(s) said Thank You: Silvermane, Kyrin Wyldstar, Arisaig, Vaziel_Sorel

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
14 Dec 2018 17:07 #330920 by Arisaig
Replied by Arisaig on topic Can gift giving be selfish?

Manu wrote: My question would be... even if it is or isn't selfish... so what?

Is there a point to all of this dissecting other than finding a nitty label to describe the situation?


Lol, I guess it really doesn't matter. People will be people, and we can never truly understand the motives of other people or their rationale.

Sword of the Jedi
Knight of the Temple of the Jedi Order
The Fulcrum Knight of the Order of Onyx
Jedi Battlemaster

~ IP I AP I DQS I Knight I Personal ~
Training Master: Zenchi
Apprentice: Open for Application
The following user(s) said Thank You: Manu, Vaziel_Sorel

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
14 Dec 2018 22:08 - 14 Dec 2018 22:31 #330945 by OB1Shinobi

_Vergere_ wrote:

OB1Shinobi wrote: I have to say i disagree with practically every idea in this post lol. Nothing personal against you.


Perhaps our differences are merely linguistic. But let me ask you this: where do I end and you begin? Physically, of course you may simply look at your body and see where it ends. What about mentally? Spiritually? Can you see your mind? Can you see your spirit? How far do they reach? How limited are they? ARE they limited?



Kyrin explained the first part. We may be connected in some way but we are distinct; evidence is that dont know each others thoughts and cant jump into each others experiences, a a general rule.
If the light from two candles overlap, they might be connected but the candles are not ONE light- each is a light, in an of itself.

Now i have a question; do you just take it for granted that there is a difference between “mind” and “spirit”? Can you explain where one ends and the other begins? How do you know?

Beware of unearned wisdom.
-Carl Jung
Last edit: 14 Dec 2018 22:31 by OB1Shinobi.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Kobos, Vaziel_Sorel

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.