The Paragon Jedi

  • Topic Author
  • Visitor
  • Visitor
    Public
5 years 4 months ago #328853 by
The Paragon Jedi was created by
A Paragon is a character trope that is generally embodied in two characteristics. Doing good, when good can be done, and inspiring others to do the same (side with them, turn from their dark ways, ect).

An excellent example of such a character would be, for instance, Captain America (as seen in the Marvel movies of late, rather than the comic books (as much of his earlier appearances have not… well… aged well…)). In the movie “Captain America: Civil War” the Avengers are split in two. Now, there was a lot of debate as to why this wasn’t an Avengers movie, rather than a Captain America movie, but this is simply because of the fact he is a paragon character. He knew he was acting in the good (even if that is subjective) and he inspired others to side with him (even if that meant becoming criminals). Those that sided against him did so for little more than they knew he would not change his mind because, well, he’s Captain America and he knows what he’s doing is right. He is the dividing factor, not the Sokovia Accords, not Iron Man, nor Bucky… him. He sided with his friend because he knew it was right, he sided against the Accords because he knew it was right and would allow him to continue to do right without a comity telling him when and when not to act.

Now, obviously, it takes more than a strong sense of right and wrong to become a paragon, and also more than simply the will to act upon such. It requires the ability to inspire others to aspire to be like you, to follow, to whatever end. Now Captain does have something going for him that many don’t. He’s classically handsome, strong, muscular, perfect hair…. To put it in a very 'Stark' way….


Warning: Spoiler!


Its no secret that people want to be liked by those that are attractive or look like a hero. Its just human nature. Before he got some superhero steroids pumped into him, everyone bullied him, pushed him around, and would rather leave him behind to pursue their own interests, even if his overall energy and sense of right and wrong were unchanged.

But, overall, this all served to point out what a paragon ideally is like.

Now there are flawed paragons. Another fictional example would be superman. He is very much like Capt. America, but with a large flaw. He’s near godlike, and with that comes an inflated ego. He will act on his own because he believes he can do it better by himself, even if he can inspire others to do it beside him. So, it doesn’t mean that being able to inspire others to follow your sense of right makes one a perfect paragon.

Now, the question. The Jedi, usually, have a pretty strong sense of what is right and what is wrong (at least, in the fiction. I find that is different in the irl Jedi community). And there are definitely paragons within said community, people that we rally behind simply because they are inspiring by their example and we see the truth in their sense of right and wrong, and will side with them even if it means getting burnt by those that oppose that paragon. So, should Jedi aspire to be paragons themselves? If one was to find themselves in a paragon situation, should they do their best to set that power to the side? If you found yourself in such a position, what would you use it to accomplish within the Jedi community?

Please Log in to join the conversation.

More
5 years 4 months ago #328855 by JamesSand
Replied by JamesSand on topic The Paragon Jedi
I like to think I'm right (failing that, at least self righteous, which is the same thing isn't it? :silly: )


Now, either I am a monster, or being right, and people popular are rarely related.


I like aSoIaF - Poor Eddard Stark, did the right thing his whole life, and all it got him was woe and trouble, in the last seconds of his life he did the Wrong thing (figuring, I guess, that the right thing hadn't helped) and all it got him was still dead, and now the world thinks he's a fraud and a traitor. Doesn't even get to die with the reputation of being honorable.

all a bit rough really.

And probably what life is really like (and less giving upper cuts to nazis)


To answer the question - if I ever find myself in the position of being an inspiring leader of any given community or organisation - I hope someone comes along smartly to supplant me, as I have no doubt that I will soon (if not already) have been corrupted by my own influence.
The following user(s) said Thank You:

Please Log in to join the conversation.

  • Visitor
  • Visitor
    Public
5 years 4 months ago #328859 by
Replied by on topic The Paragon Jedi
We can't always know what of our actions are inspirational to others.

The thing about movie Cap (and sometimes comics Cap) is that he is not so much a leader as he is the guy who goes first. He leads because people follow his example. Because he's often literally rushing into battle, that's easy for him to see. If he gives inspirational talks to kids about the importance of brushing their teeth, he's less likely to see the long-term results (better dental hygiene? increased interest in being a dentist when they grow up? some of each?). But whatever it is, you can guarantee that he is leading by example and he cannot do otherwise and be true to his own nature.

So if we find ourselves being put on a pedestal by others, then, yes, we need to do our best to step down from that. It's not really a healthy relationship to have and it's not really going to serve anyone's best interests in the long run.

But if they are looking to us to see what is the right thing to do in a situation? Then it's our job to continue doing the most-right thing we can. We can't control what other people think, we can only control our own actions, so we might as well make our actions count as much as possible.

Please Log in to join the conversation.

More
5 years 4 months ago #328861 by Adder
Replied by Adder on topic The Paragon Jedi
I like to see the concept as a model, and so a paragon model which is flawed is either going to be in need of updating, or my perspective of it is distorting its perfection. I don't really see the benefit of going so far with the concept to anthropomorphize it to the extent of a whole embodied individual (too much complexity to retain the required practicality), but rather just consider it partially - as localized resonance of 'correct'. As such there is no way I'd consider anyone as such, not even partially. A person can display a whole suite of ideal thought and action but it's extents and circumstance are retrospective and not fully known - in the conceptual space at least it's in the present moment, malleable and can be exported as action or decision making.

So,
- should Jedi aspire to be paragons themselves?
I'm not sure its possible, but if one can acknowledge and accept that which goes with reaching for an unreachable summit, then it might be useful to guide passage on a path. Ships don't reach and touch the lighthouses, for example, but use it for finding their way forward.

- If one was to find themselves in a paragon situation, should they do their best to set that power to the side?
Depends on how it might be counter-productive to anyone. It could be seen as analogous to parenthood I guess, if people look up to someone. But mimicry is a tool to grow ones own capabilities, not replace their identity with another... or people need to come of age through standing out from under the wing of these things in various ways, just to grow - if growth is the intent. Depends on the circumstance I guess.

- If you found yourself in such a position, what would you use it to accomplish within the Jedi community?
No different to anywhere else.....what is it that is paragonal, why is it paragonal, when is it going to be useful and why, and what do you need to do to work it into results when its appropriate. The deeper one digs the sooner they will find the model will break down. Models only have so much relevance. Paragon's are superficial..... so I'd say, they serve a template for digging deeper.

Knight ~ introverted extropian, mechatronic neurothealogizing, technogaian buddhist. Likes integration, visualization, elucidation and transformation.
Jou ~ Deg ~ Vlo ~ Sem ~ Mod ~ Med ~ Dis
TM: Grand Master Mark Anjuu

Please Log in to join the conversation.

More
5 years 4 months ago #328862 by Carlos.Martinez3
Replied by Carlos.Martinez3 on topic The Paragon Jedi
I find in real life there are so many more different decisions to be had rather than just one. The joy of choice is sometimes it’s uncertainty and the paradox of it is how can we as people - can make our own decisions and live with them.
I’ve made plenty of decisions in life that were all my own and I was alone for making them. It will happen to any human being. Right and wrong are very much - To each of us to decide- relative and all... and we can tell no one something is right or wrong for some one else ever, no more than we can tell that same person why vanilla is the best flavor in the world- and expect them to fully believe our pitch... it’s all an opinion. We are entitled to have our very own in most everything -joys of being human. Our values and our moral compasses- same thing. We seem silly if we think that every one will follow me or oppose me - there will never be a middle or even any other than just those two. Light dark - grey - it’s all in how you personally can display your understanding and your own balance.
SHOULD a Jedi be —- is a option in my mind. A Jedi should be 100 percent them selfs . They CAN have the freedoms to pick and choose how they act and practice.
To personally answer your question ...

Denominations tend to seperate. Separation is fine. Nothing harmful about separation till... it begins to separate ... ( big bomb there hu?)
The biggest separation I can think of is the individual. The human. After that small label - you can go anywhere in any direction and make anything possible.
If ever that “label” or moment comes to be paragon ... I probly won’t notice it as that. Truly that’s not in my idea of things , it is now ... but I don’t think in my practice right now it has much to stand on. You never know- something may come from it in the future but for now I can say my actions won’t revolve around that focus. It is an interesting idea though - I’ll give you that. Same like the Kayfabe idea too. In the end - it is my hope that we all as a community and as individuals become the person we want to be and grow into that - with - any label you may or may not bring.

Pastor of Temple of the Jedi Order
pastor@templeofthejediorder.org
Build, not tear down.
Nosce te ipsum / Cerca trova

Please Log in to join the conversation.

Moderators: ZerokevlarVerheilenChaotishRabeRiniTavi