Sithism

Yesterday In a moment of thought, I pondered on the idea that if there is a Jediism, would those who endorse the ways of the Sith, also have a religion or doctorine of some kind. I typed Sithism into Google, and wasn't surprised to see Sith temples, churches, forums etc, but what really surprised me was how many individuals seem to have subscribed to its teachings.

I have never been one to judge anyone on their beliefs, and how they chose to practice them, but I do find it a little concerning that there are those who are openly applying themselves to a doctorine based on so many negative aspects of the human character.

I have been a member of the TOJO for a few weeks now, and I humbly admit that I have become a better person for it, and I feel privileged to be a part of such a great collective of people. But I do find it disturbing to think of those purposefully following a darker path, where it will ultimately lead them, and at what cost to themselves and to others. There are a lot of easily led individuals out there, and many who are easily manipulated, I just hope that those preaching these doctrines are responsible for their actions, and not simply encouraging their followers to submit to the negative sides of their personalities whilst doing harm to there in the process.

It would be interesting to hear what others think about this issue.

May the force be with us.

A lot of Sith are not as bad as all that. Don't get me wrong, there are some really bad apples(I think we get threatened with war at least once a year) but the dark side path doesn't uniformly put out butt-hurt machines.

I think of Sithism like Satanism (a path which I still hold in my heart). The culture is different, but the search for knowledge, the self improvement, the desire to learn and change and build yourself up is the same, it's just a different method, a different path. You might come across a couple of people who don't act very well, but you shouldn't judge a whole movement by the behaviour of the few. The 'dark path' is not necessarily one that has negative effects on others, nor on the self. Sometimes you have to break yourself down to build yourself up. As I said, a different method.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R_XAR9rna3I

maybe i misunderstand it

but the way it was explained in the original movies there is no reason to claim sith unless your desire is to become master and supreme lord over everyone else

thats the dark side and thats what sith affiliate with

i suppose a lesser ambitioned devil might be content with being a relatively petty tyrant so long as they get their chance on the right side of the whip

but sith as it was originally presented is using fear, aggression, anger, violence, and hate, as personal tools for self actualization

while i agree that the ability to defeat violence with violence is a part of the warrior archetype, i do not agree that the use of violence against the less powerful and the non combative is an appropriate tool for self actualization or for social regulation

and the advocating of hate as a means of anything except violence is delusional

hate will only make more hate

if someone wants to say "oh but sith is not about hate and violence" then my response is "then its not sith, its just jedi"

again it may be that real people have taken the word sith and used it to create or express a philosophy other than what was presented in the original work

i dont know and if thats the case then great, but its still not sith as sith was originally presented so far as i understand

also i only am going by the original movies

and there has been a lot of addition to those which i am unaware of

How much like the film Jedi are we really? How much like the film Sith are the Sith really? I don't think comparisons to the films are very useful.

I know nothing about real world Sithism, but I know of a few Jedi who have gone down that road before and heard them reference to it a few times. It doesn't seem all that bad. From my understanding there's not really any "we must rule the world" kind of ideas, but rather just a different take on self exploration.

But again, I don't really know.

the philosophy behind the films are based on reality

the difference between the term "jedi" and the term "sith" is that one advocates the use of hate and violence to achieve the dominance of others and one advocates the use of love and courage for all to be free

again i admit i am not familiar with much of the literature which followed the movies

i dont really have much memory for the last three movies either lol as they were by a large disappointing to me i only saw any of them once

i apologize if what i am saying offends anyone but what i am saying what seems obvious and i dont understand how any confusion could arise unless as a result of the literature which i admit i am not versed in

but comparison to the films does have its place since the films are where we got the terminology, not to mention for many people, the inspiration, to begin with

im not saying that someone cant use the term "sith" and really be talking about the jedi path

im saying i dont undertsand why someone would want to use the word sith unless they belived in using hate and violence and aggression as tools for personal achievement

thats what it meant to be sith within the context of the origin of the word

if there is some particular resource which demonstrates that practicing "sith" do not accept this ideology and yet still have a valid explanation of how "sith" is fundamentally different from "jedi" then please direct my attention to it and i will acknowledge what they say

Sithism as I understand it operates on the idea of growth comes from imbalance. This is an old concept, however the Sithism variant focuses on negative imbalance whereby an individual takes their anger and general aggression and turns it into their anchor. Provided the individual can effectively sublimate and control the strong emotions it does translate into considerable power, however it can easly lead one to over extend themselves and do harm to not only themselves but to others to the detriment of all.

Lone Starr wrote: Sithism as I understand it operates on the idea of growth comes from imbalance. This is an old concept, however the Sithism variant focuses on negative imbalance whereby an individual takes their anger and general aggression and turns it into their anchor. Provided the individual can effectively sublimate and control the strong emotions it does translate into considerable power, however it can easly lead one to over extend themselves and do harm to not only themselves but to others to the detriment of all.

Training in this path should not be done without close supervision.

Sith Realism (a term that Sith Realists do not always associate with) is its own thing. It's not even close to breathing next to the Star Wars Sith.

It actually has its main focus on each person who practices it. Khaos's Sith path is leagues different than David's or Kiss's or Draconis's or (hellfire save me) Mortose's.

Not all of them are evil. In fact, Khaos may be more compassionate than most of us.

It's about the personal interpretation of that path. Take a gander at the Sith Code:
Peace is a lie; there is only Passion.
Through Passion, I gain Strength.
Through Strength, I gain Power.
Through Power, I gain Victory.
Through Victory, my chains are Broken.
The Force will set me free.

Does this sound like it has to be taken to mean you need to be a dictator? Is Frank Underwood a Sith Lord (yes... lol).

But, what if the Sith Code is less than literal... Could it be talking about self-betterment? Could the Passion be something other than taking over the world or becoming immortal? Sure it can.

The Sith Path is not a docile one. But, it also is not an evil one.

I didn't write this ,but I found it to be the most accurate description of Sithism.

Much of the code can be seen and learned by reading up on subjects such as Facism, Satanism, Pragmatism and anything considered "wrong" and/or "selfish" by the mainstream society.
That being said, to be Sith is not to be evil, to be Sith is not to be "selfish" nor an "egoist". Surely the Ego is what is most worth to a Sith, and in my own opinion it is what is the driving force behind all of humanitys actions. But there are different kinds of ego and there are different kinds of "egoism".
The code teaches strenght, to put it short and bluntly. But to understand strenght you must understand what makes you strong. For me, and I hope I speak for all Sith when I say this, to know your own Ego is to be strong.
Let me explain: Your ego, hides within you, it's like a sickness, it taints your toughts, your actions and your motivations. It feeds you with lies, sentences it speaks are disguised as your own toughts, but they are not your own. Rather think of the ego as a manifestation of what keeps you weak, rather than strong. Your ego can be symolized by your shadow.
All men have shadows, we all cast a shadow where ever we are. This shadow is like a pale reflection of yourself, thus if we imagine that your shadow is a seperate being from you, this can be the "body" of your ego. (Do you follow?)
All humans listen to their ego, it's what drives you, what "makes you strong". Your ego is what creates your enemies and what drives you to destroy them. You might think this is a good thing then, that a strong ego makes you strong. No.
If you feed your ego, it does get stronger, but you don't need a strong shadow, you need a strong self. Master your ego and become the master of your own life. So how do you master your ego?
First you have to learn how to separate your own thoughts and feelings and actions, from that of your ego. When you've done this, you've already come very far. But there is much more to be done after that. You can't simply put your ego aside, how ever much you'd think that you can.
But you might wonder, how can I say that the ego is what is most worth to a Sith? It's quite simple. As said there are different kinds of egoism. There is selfish egoism, there is selfless egoism and there is true egoism. The two former are bad egoism, in those cases you either feed your ego, by following it's will or you abandon your ego and in doing so you feed others by giving up yourself (like the Jedi teaches).
But true egoism, to become the master of your own ego, that is what the code teaches, that is what I teach and that is what I want all Sith to learn.
When you know how do differentiate between your own thoughts and the thoughts of your ego, you can choose to listen to either and you can controll your egos urges and thus you can force your "shadow" to do your biding rather than the other way around.
When you are able to take control of your own life, of your own actions and you own will, then you are not a slave anymore, then you are free, from all the schackles that bind you - This makes you strong.
Behold the code and I shall explain further:
Peace is a lie, there is only passion. Through passion, I gain strength. Through strength, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory. Through victory, my chains are broken. The Force shall free me.
One can easily believe that the code teaches us to follow our ego, our inner passion and inner power. But, if you do give in to passion, and that passion comes from or is built upon your ego, then you gain nothing. You are simply a tool of your own ego, driven by a force that's not even you! No, the code teaches to follow your own passion.
(Peace is a lie, there is only passion.) The Jedi code teaches it's followers to not give in to passion, not to give in to your ego, in that way we are alike. But the jedi teaches peace and tranquillity. I'd be lying if I said that it wasn't a good intent, but they are wrong. To deny ego and then also deny yourself is blind foolishness. The Sith code teaches that passion, the only driving force, is your own inner passion. True egoism, where you are not following the will of society, nor the will of your shadow - But rather your OWN will. Ego litteraly means "Me" or "I" in latin. True egoism is when you follow the will of "ME", yourself.
(Through passion, I gain strength.) As explained above, strenght comes from within, in understanding this you also have to understand that just because you've mastered your ego, and you've become a pragmatic, hedonist doing whatever you feel is right, that doesn't mean that doing whatever you please is right. Because if you do whatever you want, then you are lying to yourself. And that makes you weak. True strenght is the ability to know when your will and your actions are what makes you stronger. You can go ahead and think of the code as a way to be selfrighteous, you can strike down your enemies with your fury, bend them to your will with force... But will that make you stong? No, it will endanger you and put yourself in harms way. True egoism, is also realizing that the most important thing in life, is you. This is strenght, knowing what actions will benefit you. Strenght is knowing when you are defeated and when you are victorious, not claiming to be strong when you are not. Strenght comes from within, not what actions you do, and specially not from actions that will endanger your self.
(Through strength, I gain power.) Now, when you've achieved strenght you will gain power, power over yourself and through that, power over others. When you have reached the point in your training where you can use to your advantage what others consider as aspects that make them weak, then you have gained true power. A Sith with understanding of the code doesn't feel self-doubt, there is no room for self loathing. Because when you have power, you can bend the world to your will. In understanding what makes you strong, you can use this strenght.
(Through power, I gain victory.) When you can use all this, all I have to teach and all you have learned, you are victorious. There will be no obstacle to big for you to handle, there will be no task deemed to hard for you to complete. When you have power, there is nothing that can stop you. But the road to that power is long and filled with many years of practice and discipline.
(Through victory, my chains are broken.) A true Sith, is a Free sith. Free from all the shackles that binds lesser humans. Free from selfdoubt, free from your ego, free from all that binds you, you are free to do whatever you want. But heed my warning; if you do not understand the code and if you fall victim to your shadow, your ego will destroy you.
(The Force shall free me.) As always, may the force be with you, all of you. Go forth Sith, and conquer this world.
But here I make a strong stand, and proclaim this for ALL Sith, strenght and power, and freedom does not give you the right to do whatever you please, and I will not have Sith sully the name of the code with actions that defile humanity. We are not the enemies of this world, we are not villains and we are not mindless beasts that rampage through the world causing death and chaos.
If you proclaim yourself to be Sith, and you believe that a Sith kills his enemies at will and that society as we know it should fall and burn and we shall claim what is left. You are deluded and you are not Sith. We do not welcome your kind, I name thee Anarchists. The Sith code is not what you have seen in the Star Wars saga, it is not what Senator Palpatine nor what you think Darth Revan or anyone else there teaches.
No, the code in its simple form, might have come from the starwars Saga, from creators such as George Lucas - But this saga, is written with the Sith as villans and as a pathetic source of inspiration for true Sith.
The code is so much more than what is portrayed in much of Star Wars, the code is alive and it has evolved from the simple thought of man to be incorporated into society today. If you feel that you are Sith and thus you are free to break any laws, kill others, rape women, steal, cheat and destroy. Then I spit on you, because a true Sith does not only refrain from such actions because of common sense, a true Sith would never fall victim to his own ego and stupidity in that way.
No, the Sith Order is not a place for you - Societes outcasts - The Order is for those whom what to embrace the code, learn it, teach it and live by it, in this world. If you don't like society, use your gained power and change society. If the Sith as a whole are to be victorious, we must all first face the fact that freedom comes at a price even if you'd like to believe that the code teaches different.
That price is a moral code - Your own, and your own morality is what will keep you strong. If you want to challange my words, step forward, but keep in mind that if you are to survive in this world, as a true Sith, you have to learn how to navigate society and still keep the Sith code at heart.
Never falter, never give in, never give up. Do not let yourself be schackled, be free, but do not be stupid or vain, your shadow will do all this for you and you do not want to fall victim to it's whims.

@ Vesha

your post wasnt there when i wrote this

what you say is to my way of thinking just a fairly real life interpretation of JEDI
for the most part i see nothing SITH about it

the philosophical and spiritual foundations of the jedi ideal were people well aware of the need to value the self and allow the genuine feeling and even expression of personal emotion but also to balance this with self discipline and review to achieve personal excellence and mastery

thats what being jedi is all about i thought

why we need another word for thesame thing i dont understand

to those attached to the word all i can say is have fun with that

---

anger is unhealthy as an anchor

http://undergroundhealthreporter.com/effects-of-anger-dangerous-to-health-and-mind/#axzz3XKBNDIza


http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2010/06/17/what-happens-when-you-get-angry.aspx


if by "peace" you mean "we all agree to like each other and agree with each other and get along and say nice things all the time to each other" then yes peace is a fantasy (not a LIE, just a fanciful notion of the immature)

if by peace you mean "we agree not to murder each other for being born differently and to generally allow each other to peacefully coexist without attempting to dominate or hurt one another" then i have to point out the absurdity of calling peace a lie when it is so obviously a choice

http://www.unicef.org/sowc96/adream.htm


https://www.boundless.com/sociology/textbooks/boundless-sociology-textbook/social-interaction-5/types-of-social-interaction-51/cooperation-319-8261/

passion is playing the violin and making love

being willing to be hosed and beaten and tear gassed and arrested in a march for civil rights

passion is hours and hours and hours of practice and effort and dedication

while the fictional jedi spurned the attachments that typically come with passion they were very much predicated on the experience of passion itself


there are many definitions of power

the greatest that i know of is power over ones own self

this is real power

power over others is for most people a misunderstanding of the need to have power over the self

power over the self means the power to choose ones own terms, choices, responses and circumstances

power over others is generally misunderstood as being the vehicle needed for power over the self

some people really do crave power over others for the sake of being the ruler or the dominator

we call those people sith lol

"When George Thompson was a law enforcement officer, he realized that the standard ways of dealing with "the public" were sufficiently confrontational that they were likely to provoke attacks. As a result of his experience he developed a family of methods and philosophy, call Verbal Judo, that focuses on using WORDS instead of force."

http://angrycustomer.org/faq/index.php?action=artikel&cat=10&id=3&artlang=en

in the beginning of one of his speeches he asks he crowd "how many of you get angry when someone says something disrespectful to you?"

when a bunch of the attendees raise their hands he yells; "YOU PEOPLE ARE WEAK!"

lol

the ability to find ones sense of centeredness in the face of difficulty represents a much greater kind of strength

victory over what?

i would ask what there is to be victorious over that requires anger or a situation in which anger is the most effective emotion?

even when anger serves the function of motivating someone to act in their own behalf it is still not a better alternative to simple discipline or self confidence or basic courage to do what has to be done because it is right

this idea of "victory" is a trap which is very clever because it takes the cause of the trap and presents it as the solution

anger does not lead to freedom

anger IS a chain and chains do not break chains, at best they only replace the old ones for the new ones

its not my desire to be curt with peoples beliefs
but it IS my intention to demonstrate that the entire premise of the SITH position as it was originally conceived and presented is psychologically unhealthy at a fundamental level and also ineffective as a social force for anything other than contention and conflict

romanticising something unhealthy because we like the characters said to represent it is childish

especially when it involves the underlying principles of peoples spirituality

and up to this point i have seen nothing which indicates that my interpretation is incorrect

again if there is some reference one could direct me to that would counter what i have said here then i am open to reviewing my position

but either i am still not being presented with some important core principle of SITHISM or else i am basically correct in what i say; sith philosophy is no more healthy or empowering or useful in real life than in the fiction

if you remove the anger and the need to be at odds with other from the sith philosophy what you are left with is called "being a jedi"

its a shimsham, and obfuscation for the easily manipulated and thus useful for those who would manipulate

if youre not intentionally manipulating others with your promotion of sith ideals then you might want to reconsider just how good this path is going to be for you because youre not on the better side of the relationship lol

The problem in a lot of this Black vs White thinking is it's a bit immature.

Quite a few members have brought up the subject before, and plenty responded by attacking it because of a lack of understanding, not sure if this is due from a inferiority complex or something deeper, regardless it's a hangup for another thread.

Sithism, Like Jediism, is many different things to many different people. Connor has described quite a few paths that exist within these, each attracting a different sort of Individual.

Just because you may not agree with Sithism, or because other individual interpretations of it do not match your expectations does NOT translate to their opinions being invalid, so lets please continue to keep open minds.

Sithism to me, (how I approach it) is a part of a greater whole, many find it confusing I am Interested in both Jediism and Sithism, they both have value and a greater purpose. The problem again is when my interpretations don't match yours, but then again, I am not offended when someone disagrees with my "interpretations." I am too busy living my life to pay attention or to explain it away to someone who really doesn't get it...

I mean no offense when I say that, no ill intention. Different strokes for different folks. I am more than willing to discuss it to those Interested, privately perhaps, but that's not what I am detecting in this thread, just people picking apart a belief or path because it doesn't quite match their own interpretations, or because you don't personally agree with it...

Variety, it's the spice of life...

I've understood Sith philosophy to focus on self-determination and strength. I realize that covers roughly .1% of the philosophy, but those two things seem to be a pretty common thread. Again, no offense intended by my incomplete understanding.

Anyway, even if it isn't really my thing, I can see the appeal. I don't think it would sit right with me in the long term, being who I am, but I get it.

I tend to see it as having merit but that its application seems limited to 'self'. By extension then, it might tend to fracture within anything bigger then small groups perhaps!? We are all 'self' though so I feel it had, perhaps still has, merit for me - but as a part within my Jedi training and not equal to it (for me). I'm not sure it's narrow beam intensity of focus is healthy taken to the nth degree, so for the fiction, I tend to see it like grabbing hold of one part of a larger training system and drowning in it because it all focuses on the self, which in effect means I view the fictional Sith as mostly abject nutterz - great for the bad guys in a flick, Force lunatics!!!
:silly:

i want to acknowledge that i check my tone in this conversation

i realize my tone alienates people sometimes (it has in the past anyway and so its one of my personal challenges at this point in my life) and i like the people here and dont want to be a source of tension any more than necessary

im genuinely interested in the conversation and most of you guys who speak about sithism are people who i have enjoyed reading or talking to in other topics

this is not an apology lol for the most part i dont belive in them

but dont be angry with me -its unhealthy :wink wink:

the question i was wondering about is if sith view makes a distinction between the emotion of anger and the aggressive impulse?

I have been almost two decades on the Sith path.

There is a large reason we are not the Sith from the fiction.

For the longest time, there was no lore, there were books on Jedi, but not Sith, and obviously, there is a difference between fiction and reality.

I know of no movie Jedi that fit any fictional mold, and so, were I to take your intentionally, overly, obtuse angle, I could make largely the same arguments you have made against my path by pointing out that most Jedi are not in professions that fit the movie mold, arent weraing bathrobes full time and are not 40-900 year old virgins.

Thats just off the top of my head.

Regardless, we were adult enough to realize that we would not fit the mold of a galaxy conquering psychopath, of which, there was very other little information on.

Still, anger, which you seem fixated on as a trait that must be possessed for one to be Sith must also be overly angry, which wasnt the case if you even do pay attention to the fiction, and aggressiveness, well that was a trait fictionally, that Jedi and Sith possessed, but yes, I would say its important to aggressively pursue something.

You have regressed them to impulses, of which is simply not the case, and I find it silly that in a Jedi forum your going to use the "I dont believe in them" angle.

Thats like a Star Trek character mocking a Star Wars character at a comicon.

Suffice to say that the Sith path is as old as the jedi, online and off.

Whether you choose to believe this or not, doesnt change that fact.

It also doesnt change that fiction and reality does not match up, regardless of one being Jedi or Sith.

Speaking of Star Trek, I have met, in Jedi communities, those following a Vulcan path.

If I were to be obtuse, I could certainly try to tear into that path and fairly easily were I to simply be dismissive as you have been, reduce it fairly quickly.

However, that is a waste of time.

I could offer you some good resources of good sites.

Why would I though?

Nothing in your manner of posting shows me your prepared to be mature about this in any regard, and I have no desire to share something important to me with someone who is obviously only prepared to be so with my path.

As you are no approaching this as an informed individual who could reciprocate in a in depth conversation, but intend to hold us impulsively to impulses and stereotypes that I couldnt live up to and in most every case, wouldnt want too.

So heres what we will do.

You pretend you know all there is to know about being a Sith, and the boxes you have placed us in, and ill go back into looking for threads worth my while to participate in.

As it is, since you seem fixated on anger, I would think this is more a projection, as it is fairly common that a person has a whole spectrum of emotions, of which anger is just one.

So I dont have to make a distinction between anger and anything, as I am not always angry. Emotions are important to the Sith path, and I do not deny my anger, or when I am angry, but that is not my sole emotional state.

Also, a distinction between anger and aggression, well, if your as into martial arts as you seem to be, one can be aggressive and not possessed by anger. Its also not an impulse, but I dont expect you to believe that, and so, I suppose im wasting my time.

Before I bid you good day, ill leave you with a quote from one of my peers within Sith circles, and I wont be responding again, as these kind of conversation inevitably go nowhere and I can see this one has already headed largely in that direction.

In regards to anger as an impulse...

"Rage isn't the only source of passion. Hell, I am not sure it is even a particularly good instructor... but if it is all you have to work with, it's better than nothing."
~Miles

khaos

[removed]

get over yourself




And member has talked with a Knight about this post...

Well, its good to see that my powers of intuition still continue to serve me well.

Ditto.

i came back to this thread with the intention of acknowledging my own lack or openness to other views

as far as i can tell you and me are not so different in how we talk to those we disagree with except for the fact that you dont seem to realize how full of yourself you are while i do from time to time actually make effort to deflate my own ego and acknowledge that mine is not the only worthwhile opinion

not that this makes me MUCH better
but in your case every little bit helps lol

also i have presented that the difference i see between sith and jedi is essentially the same difference the films express - namely that sith focus on the negative aspects of human psychology such as anger, (which i focused in because it was specifically brought up by another member who was explaining sith philosophy, and which btw to this point remains an issue which none have been able to address satisfactorily what the difference is between sith and jedi EXCEPT things such as anger) and particularly in this case; smug and short sighted arrogance

so unless your intuition can present a case that this is not so, then you really are irrelevant to the conversation

two decades of sith wisdom and you still havent learned to recognize your own lack of social maturity

maybe you should try yoga or something lol