BBC News - "Have Jedis created a new religion?"

steamboat28 wrote: Here's a wacky thought: instead of bemoaning the fact that we're Jedi who won't be taken seriously because we're Jedi, why don't we wear the title as a namebadge while doing things that will make people take Jedi seriously?

I mean, I know it's a little out in left field, but...

I have three different Jedi pendants, all three of which strike conversation and I have never once been looked at cross eyed when i tell them that I live Jedi as a lifestyle. Most folks find the idea quite enlightening.

steamboat28 wrote:
This exactly. There is too much charity work being done by "roleplayers" for them to be discounted out-of-hand, and they are super, super, stupidly visible. This combination of things means they are not inherently bad, and we shouldn't smear them. Some of us want to be considered distinct and distant from that, and that's fine, but if that's what we want we're going to have to step up our own game quite a bit to "compete" for Public Image Points with these groups that are doing ridiculously good deeds all over the place, or start directly supporting them or efforts like theirs on our own.

Also, I'm an intelligent, critical-thinking Jedi by the Order's definition.

But I also finally have Qui-Gon hair, and ain't nobody gonna tell me I can't put on some shabby beige robes or I'll get disowned.

I quite agree... I apologize for seeming one-sided in my post, but I was merely trying to hammer a point down. This isn't to say that I look down upon cosplayers. I've been known to do such (cosplaying), myself. But we can't escape the fact that many people DO look down upon cosplayers, at least *relatively* in relation to say, a serious matter such as a legitimate faith.

Due to this, I wouldn't personally, myself, shun *cosplyers* or *cosplaying*... but rather the mixing of that image with that of striving to achieve/maintain validity in the eyes of scrutinous onlookers who might jump at the chance to deny us any seriousness - or at worst, ultimately, persecute us.

I've certainly cosplayed, myself - and for things far less serious... I've been Ranma Saotome from the anime "Ranma 1/2", and Maxfield Stanton/Nephrite from "Bisshoujou Senshi Sailor Moon"...

But let's say I was to play a fictional Jedi at a Sci-Fi convention... and I just might... during such a time, I personally would NOT bear the insignia of the Temple. If anyone recognized me, and said, "I know you, you're one of the real Jedi" - I would then say, "Not right now, no - I'm having fun pretending I'm a fictional character".

What I mean about distancing from fandom is that, if I were to say, be interviewed about what a Real Jedi is, I don't think certain articles of clothing would be *extremely* inappropriate (within reason), but I wouldn't for example, say, have a drainpipe/flashlight/makeshift "light saber" hanging from my belt. Such might not be against the grain of a person in this forum, or it might - but to an onlooker who is seeing me in a serious interview being questioned about my faith, with an eye towards scrutinizing for validity or signs of ridiculousness, because they scan for whether or not something should be taken seriously, then nothing would scream the word WANNABE much louder than that *thing* hanging from my belt.

I suppose it's all about time and place - a time and a place for everything, and discretion being the better part of valour.

We have the duty of representing - we should represent with care. Not isanely and to a fault, no - but certainly also not with reckless abandon

IMHO

Tarran wrote:

steamboat28 wrote:
This exactly. There is too much charity work being done by "roleplayers" for them to be discounted out-of-hand, and they are super, super, stupidly visible. This combination of things means they are not inherently bad, and we shouldn't smear them. Some of us want to be considered distinct and distant from that, and that's fine, but if that's what we want we're going to have to step up our own game quite a bit to "compete" for Public Image Points with these groups that are doing ridiculously good deeds all over the place, or start directly supporting them or efforts like theirs on our own.

Also, I'm an intelligent, critical-thinking Jedi by the Order's definition.

But I also finally have Qui-Gon hair, and ain't nobody gonna tell me I can't put on some shabby beige robes or I'll get disowned.

I quite agree... I apologize for seeming one-sided in my post, but I was merely trying to hammer a point down. This isn't to say that I look down upon cosplayers. I've been known to do such (cosplaying), myself. But we can't escape the fact that many people DO look down upon cosplayers, at least *relatively* in relation to say, a serious matter such as a legitimate faith.

Due to this, I wouldn't personally, myself, shun *cosplyers* or *cosplaying*... but rather the mixing of that image with that of striving to achieve/maintain validity in the eyes of scrutinous onlookers who might jump at the chance to deny us any seriousness - or at worst, ultimately, persecute us.

I've certainly cosplayed, myself - and for things far less serious... I've been Ranma Saotome from the anime "Ranma 1/2", and Maxfield Stanton/Nephrite from "Bisshoujou Senshi Sailor Moon"...

But let's say I was to play a fictional Jedi at a Sci-Fi convention... and I just might... during such a time, I personally would NOT bear the insignia of the Temple. If anyone recognized me, and said, "I know you, you're one of the real Jedi" - I would then say, "Not right now, no - I'm having fun pretending I'm a fictional character".

What I mean about distancing from fandom is that, if I were to say, be interviewed about what a Real Jedi is, I don't think certain articles of clothing would be *extremely* inappropriate (within reason), but I wouldn't for example, say, have a drainpipe/flashlight/makeshift "light saber" hanging from my belt. Such might not be against the grain of a person in this forum, or it might - but to an onlooker who is seeing me in a serious interview being questioned about my faith, with an eye towards scrutinizing for validity or signs of ridiculousness, because they scan for whether or not something should be taken seriously, then nothing would scream the word WANNABE much louder than that *thing* hanging from my belt.

I suppose it's all about time and place - a time and a place for everything, and discretion being the better part of valour.

We have the duty of representing - we should represent with care. Not isanely and to a fault, no - but certainly also not with reckless abandon

IMHO

And why not? The Jedi Gathering Movement has been wearing Jedi Robes and practicing with toy lightsabers since 2004 and we just got finished hosting Filmmake/Director Laurent Malquaris doing a full length documentary on the Jedi Religion and various members within and I can personally guarantee that we were quite real and convincing complete with our Robes and Knighting Ceremonies. http://gatheredforcecommunity.com/index.php/about-us/jedi-documentary

People have this misconception that we will be judged if we proclaim to be real while dressing up in "Costume" But I can personally state that, that is not the case. Perhaps we should learn to conquer our fears and give the world a little more credit Lets face it...The new age movement has even more wierdo freaks out there than brown robed, lightsaber totting real religious Jedi


Edit: To add a link to pictures of the 2014 gathering and our various Jedi Robe displays - http://gatheredforcecommunity.com/index.php/gatheredcommunity/member-holocron-s/photo-album/album?albumid=14&groupid=4

steamboat28 wrote: Here's a wacky thought: instead of bemoaning the fact that we're Jedi who won't be taken seriously because we're Jedi, why don't we wear the title as a namebadge while doing things that will make people take Jedi seriously?

I mean, I know it's a little out in left field, but...

Again, brilliant - I've pondered this same idea when I saw someone on a Facebook page mention making a movie about real Jedi, and the cover image was completely cosplay-con plastered. The person himself, though probably possessing among the largest of well-meaning hearts, was not too far off, himself - jeans and a sort of Jedi T-shirt of sorts, and what seemed to be a light-saber hanging from his belt... I think he had some sort of radio show... which I think was mentioned on his Jedi T-shirt - I'm wildly ignorant of much beyond this, about him and his group, may the Force be with all those good people...

- But I say this because it occurred to me, if I was doing serious work somewhere, sometime, throughout my life, and say, had a small pin upon my chest, or sleeve, or collar - and insignia of the Temple here - and that was the only thing signifiying *anything* on my person beyond my every day garb, and someone inquired as to what it was, then I could actually see a serious, informative and respectable conversation come out of it that would instill good things in the mind of the inquirer, perhaps inspiring further questions later on.

Br. John wrote:

Do we have less of a right to create and define non-fictional Jedi as George Lucas had to create and define fictional Jedi?

steamboat28 wrote:

Yes. That's exactly what it means, because that word is a legally protected trademark of the Walt Disney Corporation, and therefore, as such, any discussion of Jedi in any context, fictional or not, that falls under the purview of that trademark is directly out of our hands. This includes spiritual training and teaching, which are a huge part of the fictional Jedi Order in-universe, unless the trademark documentation specifically says otherwise.

Trademarks are granted for specific purposes and uses. Unless that purpose is specified it's not covered. Nobody has a registered trademark or service-mark for the word Jedi used for non-fictional philosophical, religious, spiritual or way of life purposes. The Order is not infringing on anyone's trademark and neither is Jax or Opie or Hannigan etc. It does not apply to non-fictional Jedi.

LOVE, JOHN SMITH and YOU'RE FIRED are registered in the trademark office too.

Tarran wrote: I saw someone on a Facebook page mention making a movie about real Jedi, and the cover image was completely cosplay-con plastered. The person himself, though probably possessing among the largest of well-meaning hearts, was not too far off, himself - jeans and a sort of Jedi T-shirt of sorts, and what seemed to be a light-saber hanging from his belt... I think he had some sort of radio show... which I think was mentioned on his Jedi T-shirt - I'm wildly ignorant of much beyond this, about him and his group, may the Force be with all those good people...

haha :laugh: The person you describe was Hannigan

steamboat28 wrote: Here's a wacky thought: instead of bemoaning the fact that we're Jedi who won't be taken seriously because we're Jedi, why don't we wear the title as a namebadge while doing things that will make people take Jedi seriously?

I mean, I know it's a little out in left field, but...

That's basically what I was advocating on another thread. It's gonna take time though. No matter what we do people will still see us as as roleplayers for probably the next 100 years or so. There's no quick fix for that.

Kitsu Tails wrote:
And why not? The Jedi Gathering Movement has been wearing Jedi Robes and practicing with toy lightsabers since 2004 and we just got finished hosting Filmmake/Director Laurent Malquaris doing a full length documentary on the Jedi Religion and various members within and I can personally guarantee that we were quite real and convincing complete with our Robes and Knighting Ceremonies. http://gatheredforcecommunity.com/index.php/about-us/jedi-documentary

People have this misconception that we will be judged if we proclaim to be real while dressing up in "Costume" But I can personally state that, that is not the case. Perhaps we should learn to conquer our fears and give the world a little more credit Lets face it...The new age movement has even more wierdo freaks out there than brown robed, lightsaber totting real religious Jedi


Edit: To add a link to pictures of the 2014 gathering and our various Jedi Robe displays - http://gatheredforcecommunity.com/index.php/gatheredcommunity/member-holocron-s/photo-album/album?albumid=14&groupid=4

DUDE!! AWESOME!!

Nah, again, my posts seem one-sided... the thing is, I'm not "afraid" of "weirdos and freaks" (hey, I resemble that remark! lol)... but we cannot ignore that a LOT of people who are in positions of power to grant us any merit in society *ARE*... and while I'd not willfully bend to someone's ignorance, if I see a way to circumvent it, then I'd rather, than to try to brute-force cosplay my way into changing their minds - it's just not going to happen.

Again, as far as THOSE abovementioned people in society are concerned, it isn't cosplaying that needs to be shunned per se - but it is the image in the minds of those people that we need to focus on, in how we prepresent who we are. It's all about appropriate time and place. If I'm gonna cosplay, I'm gonna cosplay - if I were to make a video (or whatever, and to whatever extent), then the focal lens has been fine-tuned to a point... and I need to portray the image clearly, if through *me*, I were to take it upon myself to stand out and represent *many* (holy crap, God forbid ahahahaha)... so I'd need to be careful of how I would represent the faith. I would take *some degree* of care. It wouldn't be "my moment to shine" and display my "Jedi bling"... I need to portray with my *personality*, the fruits of our tenets and code and ethics etc. - not by any showy display, but by example.

If THAT were the stated, very finite case.

If I'm at a convention, and I got a damned-cool lightsaber in hand, I'mma go duel lol



BTW, that first pic on that link, in the upper left... that brown robe is damned cool

Tarran wrote: DUDE!! AWESOME!!

Aye!! It is! :laugh:

Nah, again, my posts seem one-sided... the thing is, I'm not "afraid" of "weirdos and freaks" (hey, I resemble that remark! lol)... but we cannot ignore that a LOT of people who are in positions of power to grant us any merit in society *ARE*... and while I'd not willfully bend to someone's ignorance, if I see a way to circumvent it, then I'd rather, than to try to brute-force cosplay my way into changing their minds - it's just not going to hapen.

I actually talk about this in one of my manuals. Its a matter of knowing your time and place. You don't go to church in your work clothes do you? When you are in the military you wear your military gear and dress to code. When you are at casual meetings you dress to match the occassion.

In the documentry the Film-make has recorded us in a couple different senarios. At my house I wore normal every day clothes that were decent enough to accept a new and honored guest into my home. We were normal people living normal lives but with obvious "Fandom" flares like my Workdesk covered in star wars and my little pony paraphanilla.

At the gathering itself I ran around in a pants and a tank top. It was hot and I had to dress down and be comfortable while running around running my Gathering for every ones enjoyment. And at the ceremony... I dawned my robes which were half done, obviously crappy and not at all complete. But it was a Knighting Ceremony and we all dressed the part for the occasion.

BTW, that first pic on that link, in the upper left... that brown robe is damned cool

I THINK that would Hannigan. He borrowed the robe.....Not sure where it was made. But yes! We get some creative robe displays at gatherings

Kitsu Tails wrote: I actually talk about this in one of my manuals. Its a matter of knowing your time and place. You don't go to church in your work clothes do you? When you are in the military you wear your military gear and dress to code. When you are at casual meetings you dress to match the occassion.

Precisely! Yes!

Like, if someone were needed to appear in court, say, to defend someone - and if the defender were Jedi - wearing robes in that context is just... *blatantly* uncool... I mean, yeah, I remember the bit about someone in a jury seat wearing her Starfleet Uniform - but that was unrelated (not a real faith, and selfishly making it all about *her*), though many things could be said on both sides.

But whereas we are instruments of peace, causing a disturbance - especially in the above-mentioned court setting example, would even be counter to our teachings.

But yeah, time and place - THANKS!!