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Temple Renovation (Today)

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IP Study Hall: Saturday 2/17/2018 8pm EST

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16 Feb 2018 17:46 #315770 by Twigga
'Do you serve lobsters?'
'We serve anybody, sir.'

Yes, that's right! Everybody's welcome at the IP Study Hall chat on the unofficial Discord!
Just 1 day and 7 hours-ish to go. Looking forward to seeing you all there!
( discord.gg/bNRPh4H )
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17 Feb 2018 12:51 #315856 by Twigga
In spite of my own PMs, where I spectacularly failed at being able to tell the time, it's 12 hours and 10 mins to go to kick off!

I blame number blindness from counting tiny plastic fish all morning :)

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18 Feb 2018 00:12 #315905 by Twigga
Fifty minutes to the IP Study hall on the unofficial Discord server - all are welcome!

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18 Feb 2018 18:13 #315965 by Twigga
I couldn’t make it to the chat!
That’s ok! The unofficial discord server is there ALL THE TIME at ( discord.gg/bNRPh4H ) and you can always write a question or comment into the IP Study Hall there - it will likely be answered over the course of the day; and sometimes immediately if anyone’s about! Then you get that back and forth chit-chat so you’ll know you’re being heard. Hey, the voice chat is always there too if you want!

So what did you guys get up to at IP Study Hall?
Other than celebrating cats in hats, and Lukezilla’s birthday we discussed how to tame ramen noodles, why folks engaged in IP at all, and what keeps them sticking to it. A lot of journals crack Lesson 0, or even Lesson 1 and 2; but then the will goes, and a reminder of why we started, and what keeps people going can be useful. Here’s what we came up with, maybe some of them chime with you:

Why did I start IP anyway?
The process of self-exploration is a healthy one, and it’s good to be guided through that in IP.
There is a desire to participate more in Temple life and IP gives an overview of the kinds of ideas people will encounter at the Temple. We are always in training and the IP lessons form the earliest foundations of participating at the Temple.
Those passionate for the Jedi way were gaining a lot of practical skills in Martial Arts and Survival, but needed personal knowledge to get where they wanted to be on their journey
People have a real student’s attitude, wanting to be a be Jedi, and the IP has lessons on how to be a Jedi; so it’s very attractive.
It’s a way to synthesize where you are at in your path right now, feeling out Jediism as to see if it's a good fit, and working through all the aspects of the formation of a spiritual path.
We started because of major life changes (newborns, life partners, deaths)
We thought nothing in the world mattered, because nothing was real; IP explores ideas beyond cynical nihilism. IP keeps us on task in trying to better ourselves through Jediism

What keeps me going?
Trusting IP is going to be a safe way of getting a person into a better state, even if it’s a steep climb
Agreeing (on the whole) with what’s written in the doctrine.
IP isn’t just philosophical meandering, you get out of it what you put in.
After You’ve invested so much into it, you just owe it to yourself to finish it.
Reaching out and making connections with others also going through IP really helps. Going to chat often helps with questions.
Physical presences you can see and hold onto really useful in reminding a person of their path - you could write a notebook, make a lightsabre, choose a picture or desktop background - anything to keep the temple life in sight.
We actually enjoy introspection
We want to really process through all the baggage we’re bringing with us and getting rid of what doesn't belong anymore
It’s fun, and a good inspiring break from soul-destroying work.
It’s a way to place value to life in a mythos and language we can understand.

>>>> Out of this discussion, and from PMs, a couple of thoughts and issues were raised in relation to the IP…

There was an appreciation of the free-form and open nature of the IP responses, and the variety of responses that gives. This shouldn’t be taken for granted, as too much guidance from Knights and Councillors could lead to clonal answers that don’t really show a student’s character and original thinking.
Having someone checking in and giving feedback on lessons as they are turned in and helping guide them through might be good, as you’re not sure whether entries are what people are looking for, or if you’ve missed the point.
Although knights don’t intend to be intimidating, they just want to help, new members may speak more freely without “higher ups”.

1) How can we help ourselves through IP?
We would like an IP forum for IP questions on the official site. The emphasis should be on participation of Apprentices, Initiates, Novices, Members and Guests sharing their ideas. Apprentices can show us they are still here and on the road, rather than disappearing all their content into the Apprentice forums. This idea is simple and fast to implement, and may even happen before I finish writing this report - thanks Rosalyn J and Tellahane in taking this forward.

2) What other help do we need in completing IP?
A list of apprentices and knights we can contact to look over any IP entries we’ve written for their feedback would be really useful. Some of us have IP sponsors, but many have never been assigned one, and others have had only three or so entries read before perhaps the IP team member has left the temple and no replacement has been found. It would be nice for those feeling they would like someone to look something over to be able to contact a willing helper proactively if they would like oversight on how they are doing.

As far as I know, no action’s been taken yet, so I’ll drop Mad Hatter (IP Team Lead) a message to see if this list could be made into a frequently updated sticky in the new forum when it (hopefully) arrives.

3) How can we implement well informed change in the IP?

It was suggested that those who have finished IP could be offered an opportunity to complete an anonymous IP experience feedback form, so the quality of the experiences in completing IP could be assessed and improved. The completion of this form could lead to an optional “Speak to a councillor coupon code” so a two-way discussion could be had by an individual wanting to bring ideas directly to the council; and they would know they have been heard. It’s understood that this would be feasible as not everyone would complete the form, and of those who did, not everyone would redeem their “voucher” as they may prefer to remain anonymous and/or not have anything particular they wanted to say.

Again, I don’t think any action has been taken, and I’m not sure if “ending IP” is done by the same “team” as “supporting IP” - I will poke around until I get answers and let you know what I find.

>>>> These ideas sparked further discussion on accessibility and transparency of the temple as a whole, so we came up with the ideas of:

1) Monthly “Ask Me Anything” with a featured Knight/Clergy/Council member

Rosalyn J kindly volunteered to be first guinea pig, but I’m unsure how much support she’ll have in setting this idea up; and it should probably have at least three more volunteers to keep the thing going up to summer so it doesn’t just become a flash in the pan. I, and I am sure others will gladly support. (I want to throw Halcyon under the bus with this one as he had HEAPS of ideas; but I should probably ask him first before saying this in a public forum post… Oooops! Too late!). I will write a follow up mail to the council, knights, and clergy secretaries to see if we can get this idea onto agendas for discussion if I sense there is some support poking needed.

2) Dedicated time where knights and/or councillors are on the website, in chat, so we know we can contact them

A large portion of chat presence and monitoring is done by the same people, but often it’s other guests, novices, initiates and apprentices. If there was an official thread somewhere saying “so-and-so will be in chat from x to y on DATE to answer your questions” they could stimulate discussion and start building bridges; connections across the temple as a whole; which will encourage people to continue in completing IP and also participating more actively in temple life.

No-one volunteered to be thrown under a bus for this one, so I’ll message Adhara to see if she’ll bring it up in the Knight’s council meeting, and get some sort of rota going; or, just see what the Knights make of the idea.

3) A video introduction, and/or “membership course”

A really brief 3 minute video with the basic rules of the temple, how to choose a name, where chat is, where PM’s are, the difference between the forums and the forcebook, and how to find the FAQ’s, IP instructions, and set up a journal would be an easier introduction than the current home-page. Steamboat28 and the Media Team seem to be onto this (mail me please if this isn’t so, and I’ll poke people)

The idea of a membership course was also brought up: What the doctrine is (so folks have at least heard/read it before completing a membership form), the temple rules and how to “be nice” in forums (Pax Tempili if/when it exists) - how to help people (when to use “report this” and how to protect minors) - What’s the clergy for and how to contact them. It was mentioned that access to IP should still be kept for guests, as membership itself (as it stands) has a very different barrier cost for some than for others - the joining of a community (specifically a spiritual/religious one); the requirement to share personal data - these present a variety of hurdles and barriers that should be very much respected while the temple doors are kept open for everyone without exception.

To be frank, I have no idea what to do with this idea - it seems very multi-faceted, and would take a good while to implement, with lots of team-working; but the support was pretty high; so I’ll try and… mention it at people until I get some more concrete feedback along the lines of “We talked about this and the answer was yes/nope”. I don’t expect this will happen quickly though whatever.

4) Appreciation of unofficial TotJO spaces, and clarification of what is/is not official

We all wanted to support the official workings of the temple; but it was also great that there are unofficial spaces like the discord server where everyone, councillors included, can take off their hats and just hang out. Same crowd, still related to what brings us together, but where we hang out as people who have TotJO in common rather than being "at church". For members who are still working out "order issues" having the free air space to interact with other members is important. The Discord server used for Cantina Chat, with minors should probably be recognised as official and the rules for joining clarified - it is perceived as being in a grey zone of “semi-official”; which is probably not good for the awesome folks who volunteer to run those chats with the additional responsibilities for minors. It would be nice for guests to be able to join if possible. Everyone highly valued the opportunity to participate in the weekly Cantina chat, and would like to see it better supported, and bringing into the temple if the moderation demands weren’t too onerous. A simple statement from the powers-that-be that the unofficial discord server is recognized as a "good place to go, albeit unofficial" was also mentioned.

Again, not sure who can action this. But in keeping with my name here I am happy to be a poking sick until I get some “yes/no/maybe” feedback from the right kinds of places.

For those who were present, and those whose toes I have trodden on
Thank you so much for three fun filled hours, heaped with ideas and encouragement; one member even posting a journal entry as we chatted! This post is a combo of memories and scribbled notes - I don’t expect myself to have made entirely faithful minutes while having hosted the chat at the same time, so do feel free to add your thoughts to this thread and correct my writings where they’re wrong - I can only edit this post for an hour; so *shrugs* we’ll have to live with my interpretation of events if you don’t speak up!

NB. I’ve not done “Personal Tools” yet in IP, so please put any lack of diplomacy/politeness here is down to a lack of education. I know “not much” about how the temple works yet; but we learn through mistakes. Please PM me if you have issues, and keep this thread free for productive discussions. YOU have my thanks.

So when’s the next one? I want in!
The next IP Study Hall chat will be on Saturday 3/17/2018 8pm EST, force willing. Looking forward to getting to know you there. In the meantime, keep your thoughts flowing; my mailbox is open, and I’ll be gathering ideas for discussion until then.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Atticus, Skryym, Rex, Preston, Manami, JosephCrawley

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18 Feb 2018 18:35 #315966 by Halcyon
Replied by Halcyon on topic IP Study Hall: Saturday 2/17/2018 8pm EST
That's weird. This bus has a full service bar and an assortment of cheeses under here. That's odd.

That summary looks about right. Only thing I'd like to add is that AMAs should be prescheduled so that we can get people ready for it. There should be a distinct time slot so that the person doing the AMA isn't overloaded by questions.

Also, just for you, Twigga.

Warning: Spoiler! [ Click to expand ]

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19 Feb 2018 04:40 - 19 Feb 2018 04:41 #316011 by Atticus

Twigga wrote: A simple statement from the powers-that-be that the unofficial discord server is recognized as a "good place to go, albeit unofficial" was also mentioned.

Both unofficial Discord servers are recognized by TPTB as good places to go. There are no plans to make anything official: both servers are run by trusted Knights, and both are used and enjoyed by our members just as they are.

Twigga wrote: 2) What other help do we need in completing IP?
A list of apprentices and knights we can contact to look over any IP entries we’ve written for their feedback would be really useful. Some of us have IP sponsors, but many have never been assigned one, and others have had only three or so entries read before perhaps the IP team member has left the temple and no replacement has been found. It would be nice for those feeling they would like someone to look something over to be able to contact a willing helper proactively if they would like oversight on how they are doing.

Boom goes the dynamite.

That said, however . . .

Twigga wrote: There was an appreciation of the free-form and open nature of the IP responses, and the variety of responses that gives. This shouldn’t be taken for granted, as too much guidance from Knights and Councillors could lead to clonal answers that don’t really show a student’s character and original thinking.
Having someone checking in and giving feedback on lessons as they are turned in and helping guide them through might be good, as you’re not sure whether entries are what people are looking for, or if you’ve missed the point.
Although knights don’t intend to be intimidating, they just want to help, new members may speak more freely without “higher ups”.

I agree with all of that. While I do sometimes pop off a PM to comment on someone's IP, it's by no means methodical and meant more to show my appreciation for wise words that resonate with me than to give feedback. So when it comes to IP stuffs, please don't hesitate to use that list linked just above for questions or requests for guidance.

Twigga wrote: I’m not sure if “ending IP” is done by the same “team” as “supporting IP” - I will poke around until I get answers and let you know what I find.

There may be some overlap, but generally no. And on that note . . .

Twigga wrote: 1) Monthly “Ask Me Anything” with a featured Knight/Clergy/Council member

That will happen, and a number of us are excited to host. But while that's being set up, let's get some of the immediate questions out of the way with a live chat next weekend called, "After the IP" . I'll pull back the curtain to reveal some information on journal checking, becoming an Initiate (and what that means), Apprenticeship, Seminary, and if we have time left over I'll take any questions you want answered.

Twigga, thank you from the bottom of my aged, grumpy heart for setting up this study hall program. I hope you don't think I'm stealing your thunder in any way by putting up these responses; it's born of a genuine desire to see that our Novices have all the information they need.
Last edit: 19 Feb 2018 04:41 by Atticus.

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19 Feb 2018 05:09 - 19 Feb 2018 05:16 #316014 by Twigga

Twigga wrote: Please note:
1) I've totally stolen this from Nakis; it just needed someone to step up to the plate; hence you're stuck with me. But you can blame it on him :laugh:


No thunder to steal - you're just looking at another thief here.

Thank you from the bottom of my prickly barbed-wire heart for saving me some effort in mailing you bits of this as agenda items. And my thanks to everyone who's been so proactive in response to this. Hopefully everyone who participated in the chat can take some pride in the change they've helped spark here, and it goes some way to healing wounds inflicted by the "dogs with eyebrows" turn taken by the conversation...
Last edit: 19 Feb 2018 05:16 by Twigga. Reason: 'Cause grammar is a thing
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