God and the Devil

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03 Mar 2016 14:52 #231518 by steamboat28
Replied by steamboat28 on topic God and the Devil
Seems I'm not the one that missed the point of Job. :p

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03 Mar 2016 16:02 #231540 by JLSpinner
Replied by JLSpinner on topic God and the Devil

Gisteron wrote: Without trying to defend western faiths, it is still hard to argue that Buddhism is in many ways superior. It of course, like any other, makes grand assertions about the nature of things without any shred of evidence, so it is by no means better at that, yet it is also little more sophisticated in its morality and in my opinion indeed less moral overall, incredible though that may sound... I could explain why, but that would get us even more off-topic, so I shan't until prompted.


And I love You for your reply. I was raised Baptist, on the path to ministry. I love the message of Christ, to live in absolute love of everyone. He's truly still a beautiful inspiration to emulate.


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04 Mar 2016 00:17 #231657 by Gisteron
Replied by Gisteron on topic God and the Devil

Streen wrote:

steamboat28 wrote: Prior to that, if we look at the Book of Job ... Satan is as his name implies, just God's District Attorney. Nothing more.


If that's what you think, you missed the point of the book of Job.

So in other words understanding one tangentially important relationship between two characters in a story differently than you do amounts to fundamentally misunderstanding the entire point of the story. You know, were it not for what you are about to say, I might be inclined to have more patience for you lecturing people on matters of literary analysis. But I don't, because shortly afterward you go on to produce this:

Job was an example for Christian's [sic] to follow.

Alright, enough with the family-friendly passive-aggressive sarcasm now. This is just bullshit and I have no kinder way of putting it. The book of Job is one of the oldest texts of the Tanach. I'm not sure how old the story itself is but the version we are familiar with predates Christianity by over half a millennium and that is a trivial thing to look up so you have no excuse.

The event wasn't Satan's creation, it was God's plan to show us how to follow Him.

God was bragging to Satan about how much of a sucker Job was. Satan told God to basically put his money where his mouth is. God went along with it. People died, others suffered. But fortunately, because nothing else matters to him, God won the bet and lest the unimportant human know he was just a toy in God's little game God came down to give a grand might-makes-right speech. And this "whatever happens to you, suck it up" is what the story teaches, rather unambiguously. Oh, and a story it is, not an "event".


... So you see, God USES Satan.

Yes, he uses Satan to prove a point to Satan. My spoon also uses me to feed me.

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04 Mar 2016 00:24 - 04 Mar 2016 00:25 #231658 by Reliah
Replied by Reliah on topic God and the Devil

Jesus and Lucifer are brothers.

Oh HELL no. Jesus was God's "only begotten son". Lucifer was an angel (one among many) who wanted to take over. If Lucifer was God's son, then so were all the other angels.


Again, according to LDS theology, "only begotten" means that he was the only son born in flesh.
And yes, all the angles are Gods children, including you and I. We are the "spirit" brothers and sisters of Jesus, Lucifer, and each and every person who has ever or will ever be.
That is why they refer to one another as "brother" and "sister" at their church services.

...
Last edit: 04 Mar 2016 00:25 by Reliah.

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04 Mar 2016 05:33 #231720 by Whyte Horse
Replied by Whyte Horse on topic God and the Devil

Gisteron wrote: Without trying to defend western faiths, it is still hard to argue that Buddhism is in many ways superior. It of course, like any other, makes grand assertions about the nature of things without any shred of evidence, so it is by no means better at that, yet it is also little more sophisticated in its morality and in my opinion indeed less moral overall, incredible though that may sound... I could explain why, but that would get us even more off-topic, so I shan't until prompted.

You might be surprised how much influence buddhism has had on the jedi code... You might want to research the Eight Fold Path and the Four Noble Truths , if you haven't already.

Few are those who see with their own eyes and feel with their own hearts.
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04 Mar 2016 08:39 #231735 by Gisteron
Replied by Gisteron on topic God and the Devil
Oh, I'm well aware of that, Whyte Horse. To read and write about it was part of the IP back when I did it. Now were these influences the creators of the Jedi Code used? I don't know, maybe. Doesn't much seem like it, but then I guess one can twist it anyhow to fit. At the end of the day, association doesn't matter, in my opinion; it doesn't make anything either bad or beneficial by itself. I have no commitment to any label that would be strong enough for me to suspend my moral senses or any kind of thinking for it.
In other words: Let's say Jediism has a significant portion of its roots in Buddhism. Now what?

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04 Mar 2016 12:19 #231750 by Rickie
Replied by Rickie on topic God and the Devil

We are the "spirit" brothers and sisters

PERIOD!

I like this. :)

Peace, kindness, compassion, tolerance, truth, knowledge, strength of mind, body and spirit are not always companions of mine but are always pursued.
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29 Mar 2016 09:47 - 29 Mar 2016 09:49 #236120 by Reiji
Replied by Reiji on topic God and the Devil

Edan wrote:

Rickie wrote: God and the Devil are a magnet. United as one, polar opposites, attract diffferently and one would not exist without the other.


God did exist without the devil originally... the creation of the devil was due to an oversight by God.. (if we're talking Christian myth here). (From my viewing of it.)


Isaiah 45:7King James Version (KJV)
7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.

This bible verse goes well with the Taoist belief of "there is nothing but the Tao (The Force/God/The Source) which is formless & nameless--all forms of polarization (such as light and dark, good and evil etc) are but parts of the one Source (Force/Tao/God).
Last edit: 29 Mar 2016 09:49 by Reiji.
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29 Mar 2016 14:32 - 29 Mar 2016 14:35 #236131 by Manu
Replied by Manu on topic God and the Devil
As someone who prefers non-theistic Satanism over any brand of christianity, all I can say is that it seems more likely that Jehova/Yahweh and Lucifer were alien overlords than the idea that the biblical god is a representation of what is Good.

The only character I do love in the Bible is Jesus. But to truly follow Jesus you would have to dismiss the temper-tantrum persona of God in the Old Testament.

Long-term consistency trumps short term intensity
- Bruce Lee
Last edit: 29 Mar 2016 14:35 by Manu.
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29 Mar 2016 14:55 - 29 Mar 2016 14:57 #236134 by Edan
Replied by Edan on topic God and the Devil

Manu wrote: As someone who prefers non-theistic Satanism over any brand of christianity, all I can say is that it seems more likely that Jehova/Yahweh and Lucifer were alien overlords than the idea that the biblical god is a representation of what is Good.


I find it a bit strange that this is what you think is more likely (and me as a non-theistic satanist too).

People can make representations of what they like... and for some God is 'Good'.

Mostly I think as I've always done, that the bible is a set of (sometimes questionable) parables... and the story of Lucifer's downfall is probably a representation of a historical event/set of events from one person's perspective.

Understanding in the place of indifference
Compassion in the place of cruelty
Action in the place of apathy
Peace in the place of violence
Mercy in the place of vengeance
Last edit: 29 Mar 2016 14:57 by Edan.

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