Runes

A little while ago I picked up a set of Runes and a guidebook, for the study and exploration of divination. I've got a Tarot deck as well, but I've long had a liking for the Norse ways, so I'm closer to the idea of runes than the cards.

What can you tell me about the runes that a book may not? What stories do you have?

This is entirely subjective, but to me the Runes seem a lot more direct and to the point and they value efficiency. For example, sometimes I'll do the same tarot reading multiple times looking for different aspects or ways to phrase my question, and its not a problem. But when I try to do the same with Runes I always get answers that become less intelligible with repetition along with a general feeling that the runes are (metaphorically) saying "You got your answer, now knock it off."

I like runes because they allow you to come up with your own meanings for each rune (if you want to) instead of just using a book. That, and they stick to the fingers easier than tarot. Just being able to stick your hand in a bag and sift through them is ten times easier than shuffling and rifling through card after card.

A funny thing I find with runes is that the same rune will show up time and time again (even after shaking/mixing the bag). It helps me to notice what might be helpful to focuse on for the day/week/month. That, and they're not as sensitive as my tarot decks. I can leave them for months and never touch them and be back and use them without trouble anytime I feel like it. My tarot cards on the other hand get a little grumpy.

How are runes treating you?

Looking for a new resource because the companion book to my set always comes back to god and the holy spirit.

Going to paste the PM I sent you over at FA.

Wow, where to begin. Alright, first off the only CERTAIN rune resource goes back to the Runic Poems, of which there are 3 variations, and of which only the first 2 escaped Christian Influences after the reformation. That being said almost all books, including what I am betting is your grey little book, were influenced in some way by the works of Edred Thorson aka Stephen Flowers aka the BASTARD in Texas who perverted the old Norse Alphabet into a system of divination well outside its original uses.

Which brings me to the topic of the runes and Edred Thorson. Somewhere around 1940 - 1950 books on the runes start poping up under the author Edred Thorson or Stephen Flowers. These books reference a lot of details with no backing, a lot of people that never existed, and a lot of documentation that Flowers somehow managed to conjure up from apparently thin air. Further he cross references his own work to his work and then everyone else does likewise. He makes repeated references to "Runes" and then to the Havamal which references runes all the while ignoring that before his own manual the term Rune meant "Hidden thing" or "Mystery" and that the Runes of Odin had no connection to the alphabets of modern man.

All that being said, any system can be made use of for divination and there are a number of sites that make use of runic definitions without going back to an all powerful whose it whats it.

http://sunnyway.com/runes/ <---- This site has been the Go To source for runes for as long as I can remember. It's more or less in the collective consciousness so as a system it is AT LEAST as viable as anything Flowers inspired and draws heavily on his work.

Sorry if a lot of that came as a kind of shock in the history lesson of what the Runes really are. Do some digging yourself, try to find some texts published pre 1940 or 1930 and you'll find a distinct lacking of sources.

Hope that was of some help.


End of Pasted PM::

All that being said, having just sacrificed some sacred cows I'm not looking to tell you to stop using the runes. Instead I'm looking to tell you to embrace them but recognize that any embracing is limited to your own understanding and sense of direction. I use a custom set of runes myself created by David Edge that have the old Runic Poem runes mixed in with other symbols such as the Triquatra, Thors Hammer, Freya's Key, Heimdall and the World Tree, The Weird, and of course Balder's Funeral Pyre . I'm working to advance my system I use with this in the future also but it has hit a kind of stand still.

Funny note on this though William I have recently resumed contact on the instruction of Master Ellen with the All Father. Next I visit him I shall ask him on the runes and what direction I should take. Whatever I come across I'll shoot you a PM on it.

to god and the holy spirit

Honto????? Ummm....yeah...about that.....

I remember using that site years ago for looking into writing in runic. Brilliant to know it's actually reliable. I've considered, and am still thinking about it, joining the Asatru or Odinic Rite. If I had access to an extended family tree I could find out whether or not there's Norse in me; a lot of Norwegians and Icelanders fled to Ireland to escape the forced conversions and crusades.

EDIT: Going over this site I see a lot of corroboration between the basic and fundamental meanings for the runes. I'm probably going to consult several sources, average them out and then define them for myself, like what I did with my tarot cards.

I should be careful not to sound arrogant, but I actually work with Nordic paganism in my every day, it's my daily bread. I live in Sweden and my specialist research subject is what you would call 'Asatru', although it is more commonly called Forn Sed here or 'the old ways'.

Runes are a gateway drug into New Age-ism, but for those that are seeking a puritan, immersive experience it requires actually very little digging around, you merely have to question the authenticity and motives of your populist sources.

I agree with the comments on Flowers above, in fact anything published by Llewelyn, the Odinic Rite, Freya Aswynn, etc I consider to be distractions at best. The only source I can recommend is R I Page. Anything from the world of New Ageisms are not written by anyone knowledgeable enough in the origins and history of the runes, or their religious backgrounds. The fact that these sources use imagination or personal beliefs is a secondary concern to the fact that they make false claims on what is fact. By most definitions this makes them liars and charlatans, regardless of any innate worth as spiritual leaders. Sometimes facts really are just facts, and to claim something is true when it is not, is therefore a lie. So let's be direct about it. Possibly Dr Brian Bates is a partial exception to the rule, his works do make erroneous claims but are usually derived from his fieldwork as a psychologist rather than as an idiot. As a Jungian psychologist he offers some interesting insights and interpretations of heathenism.

For your own religious meditations I also recommend going to the Runepoems, including the Anglo-Saxon, because even though it appears that there are strong Christian re-workings, in many ways these are in fact indicative of actual pagan perspectives. Why? Because they were written in a society that were written in a society that was still in part actively pagan or in living memory of a society that was in the majority pagan, so when does someone suddenly stop thinking like a pagan and start thinking like a Christian? (or in our times, vice versa). You can compare Beowulf for the same mentality, that the Christianity represented there is only Christian in name, and some times not even in name but using names of pagan gods such as Frea Aelmihtig, for the concept of Almighty God as we would now transliterate it (incorrectly), missing the original duality and complexity.

The benefit of having three Runepoems from different time periods and backgrounds actual gives a great cross-referencing power to work out some kind of common denominator between the representations to form generic meanings. Runes do have generic meanings, this is the fundamental point to them. The Rune Mannaz for instance does not just represent a man, or Mankind but arguably social interactions. The runes have been convincingly argued to be ideographic, and like Chinese characters can have multiple meanings, especially when used with other characters (to form sentences) or when applied to various contexts (and in this case; we would say that the context would be what question is asked of the runes in a divination).

Compare Chinese: (暗送秋波) "to make eyes at someone" (literally, "covertly send autumn waves”). In the same way, divination with Runes can deliver a generic poeticism that can be applied to a variety of scenarios. To draw, F/M/R gives you wealth, man, road*(one of the interpretations). From this you could say that through many people you will journey, or that you will be influenced by many people on your journey. But F also has the connotation of 'fee', in an actual cost, and indeed wealth (as the Runepoems say) is a question of value that we apply to an object (livestock/harvest) and therefore it is has a price. Just this interpretation of that rune alone can reform the entire meaning of the reading.

So a Runic 'reading' requires the reader to work with the asker to help them achieve their understanding. Etymologically the word rune (anachronism) has connotations of counsel and collective debate. In my view, this is best and most convincingly achieved when the reader does not know the asker's question. This avoids the issues of 'I'm being contacted by an old man with the name Alfred or Albert, is there anyone on this side of the audience who has lost someone of that description?"

Lastly, if you are going to be true to the origins of the Runes, throw out your Tarot runes and go make your own from a fruitbearing tree. The process is much more giving since it is part of the ritual, arguably. Some traditionalists go so far as to conduct this part of the process with the asker, finding the right tree and branch and making the runes in the company of the asker, even conducting meals of thanks during the process. The runes might even be burnt in an offering after the reading. With new runes made for the next asker.

I would echo the earlier voice that repeated readings are not helpful and you should advise your asker against that, the above ritual helps to reinforce that and to make sure that both parties actually get their moneys worth because neither person wants to traipse down to the woods and go through it all again. So it is important to set your rules beforehand and stick to them. A healthy rule might be no more than one reading per month, either for you or for the asker.

There is also good historical argument that only three runes should be drawn in the divination. Again, this is relevant to the overall importance of systematics, efficiencies and good common sense as well as the pragmatism we associate with Anglo-Sazon and Nordic cultures.

In summary, I would privately advise against the Odinic Rite, their rituals and philosophies bear no resemblance to the historical sources of Asatru practices and beliefs. Furthermore they are easily definable as racially motivated, and by that I mean they have organised neo-nazi agendas and for me this cannot therefore deliver a proper reconstruction since its motives are not based on the origins but on the interests of something else than the perspectives of historical ancestors. Not only have I studied these groups in great detail, but I was twenty years ago (and to my knowledge still am) the youngest ever ordained Gothi in the Odinic Rite (and possibly any major organisation), and was something of a golden boy in my time- so I am well aware of what I'm talking about and have known many members of the top brass of most heathen reconstruction groups personally. Vikings were not skinheads last time I looked. I also disregard your comments on Norse ancestry, the Asatru represented in English speaking countries seems to be obsessed with ethnic inheritance and specifically with the Vikings. This is nonsense,
a) Even Celtic heritage allows claim to Norse and Anglo-Saxon heritage. Both Scotland and Ireland have sizeable Norse and English injections prior to 1600. Even Italian or Polish heritage has sizeable injections of Germanic ethnicity.
b) The Vikings existed only for a 300 year period of a religious tradition that covers at least 2000 years in continuity. So the Vikings represent about 10% of heathenry, literally. The fact that most of the literature and archaeology originate with the Vikings is totally false. The Icelandic literature postdates the Viking era by approx 300 years, and the AngloSazxon literature predates by approx. 200 years. There is also far less archaeology on heathenism from the Viking period, but is actually by a huge margin datable to the Bronze Age and early Iron Age.
3) Who says the gods only accept those of Germanic genetic markers? Does that mean the gods safeguard only the interests of those with higher quantities of Haplogroup I1 or haplogroup R1b and haplogroup R1a? This means that Americans must be spiritually inferior to Englishmen.

On the topic of the racial perspective in Asatru it is absolutely essential that you first read Gods of the Blood by Mattias Gardell and Black Sun (the Politics of Identity) by Nicholas Goodrick-Clarke. It is necessary to track down where some of (y)our assumptions actually originate. As with all religion, much of what drives us and what we perceive or think or feel that we feel or think or perceive are actually second-hand deliveries from our culture. So I recommend you to sincerely question what the New Age groups and media actually present to you as traditional religion or magic. In many cases you are digesting the ideas that have been passed on and on from a single source such as Flowers, or Hitler. Are they any closer to God or Truth than you? Don't be lazy -you don't actually strike me as that sort anyway.

Seven hells, Wings.

Between what you and Chuckles have told me I've got a bit of reading to do. Thanks for your input. It's nice to know there's authors out there not corrupted by Christianisation of these things.

Just another avenue for runic practioniers. I started learning runes when I was 17; 6 months into my "year and a day" of studies into paganism.

My favorite runic practice is that of "Bind runes" and "sigil." Where you combine two or more runes into a single overlapping or connected figure. This adds power to each one, and when written slowly can create a meditative state.

As any pagan practitioner or "magick" user knows that the symbol cant hold power in its own right; like all "spell-work" or Ritual work, it's in what the symbol means to the practioner that gives it its power, and the reverence you place in the creation of the symbol that empowers it.

I strongly suggest trying this technique as a way of meditations, this in my opinion will allow you to learn the "energies" of the runes and create your own meanings instead of simply memorizing what a book says.

I want to leave with a Buddhist quote i found that fits this situation.

"Believe nothing,no matter where you read it,or who said it, no matter if I have said it,unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense."-Buddha

Hope this helps and if you are ever interested in talking about the runes or having a "meeting of minds", I am always here. Hope this didn't come off arrogantly, the runes were my first real love when i discovered Paganism and I can get a little passionate.

Blessed Be; and good luck in your studies.