Psychoactive Substances

A Jedi does not abuse or misuse substances. abusus non tollit usum abuse is not an argument against proper use

Look at some of the things that, properly used, are helping with:

1. Alcoholism.
2. End-of-life issues.
3. Depression and anxiety.
4. Cluster headaches.
5. Post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD).

5 Fascinating New Uses For Psychedelics

Scientists are looking into various medical and psychiatric uses for psychedelics. Could the taboo be ending? http://www.alternet.org/story/155167/5_fascinating_new_uses_for_psychedelics?page=entire

Hadi Apollos wrote: This is one of those things where I don't really have a side just yet. Let me throw out a word that should get you thinking..."alcohol."

Many of you argue that illegal drugs are harmful for the community and are ruining loved ones...but does alcohol not have this same effect? I have witnessed people fall apart because of alcohol. I had a friend from high school who turned from his family, and ultimately, died in an accident in which he was drunk (wrapped his car around a tree). What you argue against drugs, can also be applied to alcohol.

HOWEVER! There is another side I stand on. Unlike drugs, you cannot get contact drunk from alcohol. The smoke from drugs gives you contact high. The smell from alcohol does nothing (unless you're like me and it makes you want to vomit). I, for one, do not feel like getting high just standing on the street corner or sitting out on the beach while somebody smokes weed or pot. Sure, you can legalize some drugs but not others, but that just sends you down a slippery path. You can legalize all drugs but limit which ones are used where, but once again...slippery slope. People will still complain.

So as you can see, there are valid arguments on both sides, which is why I haven't been able to pick one. Now I do not like drugs. I do not like any mind altering substance. And I don't buy the whole "but it gives you a religious experience" crap (sorry, just being honest). Hallucinations from drugs are nothing more the false images and feelings. I do not want those falsities. I want to experience REAL spiritual connection (this is all just my opinion, by the way, but one I thoroughly believe in).

So there's my 2 cents. Not very helpful, probably, but it's there anyway. Deal with it!

You're assuming that re-legalizing marijuana would let people smoke it around you in public. I can't imagine that being part of the deal. Can people do that with cigarettes? Not where I live and I'm in Idiot Texas. The same principal and "no smoking laws" would apply. Besides marijuana does not have to be smoked. It can be made into a tincture, baked into brownies or inhaled through a vaporizer that produces no smoke and does not cause any contact high.

We're already on an insane slippery slope. Two of the most destructive drugs, alcohol and cigarettes are legal, taxed and regulated. Why should the far less harmful ones not be?

Are images from a telescope or a microscope false images and representations of reality? From God or The Force many wondrous plants and fungi arose and I've had life enhancing religious experiences that changed me for the better. Are you speaking from personal experience?

Remember I'm talking about proper, controlled, safe conditions and sacramental use with an experienced guide. I'm not saying anyone should just run out and start snatching up and trying all the mushrooms and toad stools in sight unless you want to get very sick or die a painful and ugly death.

Alethea and others of a similar mind, I believe that you are responding mostly to the posts that seem to advocating a social or casual use of drugs but what about the points John and I (and others) have raised about their use in a sacred context, where the lives of friends and family are not affected negatively.

One of my friends has been screwed up his entire life - he is gay and since he was a child had to hear his entire family say things like "gay people should be flushed down the toilet at birth" and much worse. He had a range of sexual and emotional issues as a result and even at the age of 39, could barely deal with them. He recently, after seeing what ayahuasca could help with, went on a 12 day trip to Peru to a healing centre run by shamen with generations of healing passed down to them. He is now everything that he could and should have been and his entire life has changed for the better. I am so happy for him and he is so happy with life, for the first time ever. No-one was harmed, so where is the problem with that?

I also see what Phortis is saying but the fault lies not with the substance itself but the people using it. Imagine if there was a sudden craze (spread by social networks or whatever) for people beating others up with joints of ham, would it become necessary to make bacon illegal?

Also, imagine a tribal society that has been using something in a sacred context for thousands of years (peyote is a good example). A few people from outside the culture use it to get high, they get noticed and the substance is made illegal. How is that fair for the people who have reverently used it and have nothing to do with the abusers? I know that exceptions are made for certain religious communities but that's not always the case, and even then it's a long and difficult road in gaining permission to carry on doing what they've always been doing.

And where is the consistency if two of the biggest causes of healthcare costs and death (cigarettes and alcohol) are legal? Not to mention the anti-social behaviour fuelled by alcohol too! The answer lies in one thing: money. Governments can more easily tax alcohol and cigarettes and it's better for them to try to control the wide-ranging effects and damage because it means that they still get their revenue. Or is it because too many of the people in power are hooked on their fix of a glass of whisky and a cigar after a day's work in government.....

The legality of certain "drugs" seems to come down to politics, not rationality. If we take a look at countries that are more tolerant of such things, we can see that decriminalisation isn't always a bad thing. Holland has a flourishing tourist trade for people that wish to go there and sample the "coffee shops" and smoke joints. Because nothing has to be hidden from the authorities, establishments are responsible for regulating their customers and the customers themselves can be assured that the products are of a decent quality and are not funding organised crime. There are much bigger problems with tourists getting drunk and causing trouble. I'm not saying that all drugs should be decriminalised, but that a more reasoned and sensible policy should be adopted rather than one that is reactive and illogically selective.

okay, here comes the desolous answers, posted underneath the question so i can keep straight.

1. How do you feel that thousands of citizens are being incarcerated for choosing to use a substance that is "illegal". By this I mean "offenders" who's only crime was doing that drug or substance ( I am not saying idiots who rob, commit crimes shouldn't be punished. They should. I am talking but people who are arrested simply for choosing to use that substance). Does it make you feel more safe knowing that cops are chasing down potheads doing nothing but sit in their house and smoke dope rather then using the time to find the REAL criminals who harm others and violate their rights?

i personally feel that ALL drugs EVERYWHERE and WITHOUT EXCEPTION should be immediately legalized and controlled. this stupid War on Drugs crap we have here in the states has ruined WAAAY too many lives, is obviously racist, and has cost TRILLIONS over the length of it. and for what? prohibition didnt work in the 30's, its not working now. and your last question in that para is leading, thus biased, but no, in actuality it does not make me feel safer that the poor, poor potheads are being afflicted with cops.


2. In light that many civilizations and religions have and continue to use psychoactive substances as a sacrament or part of their religion, isn't the government's persecution of people using psychoactive substances a form of religious persecution? For instance, I believe that marijuana is a sacrament, used for connecting with spiritual forces and gaining greater insight. What right does the government have to persecute me for my religious beliefs? Who have I harmed by smoking marijuana? Is not my body my own...or is it in truth owned by the government? If it is owned by the government, doesn't that imply I'm a slave that only has rights as long as the corrupt political elites say I do? If I am a slave with no right to decide what I take into my body, then can we at leat be honest and admit that indeed I am NOT free, my rights come from corrupt politicians and I am only free to do what th ecorrupt, bribed politicians say I cna do?

no. thats just too bad currently. if your 'religion' decides to flout the laws of the land it is in, it can expect to receive the consequences of that law. i mean, whats to stop me from forming a 'religion' where we worship the sun, sacrifice virgins at dawn and eat parts of the dead? is that supposed to be okay with the US government cuz i said its my religion?

and i love your 'am i a slave' question, so florid. we are all slaves to something. the almighty dollar. alcohol. love. religion. sometimes all of those at once. and whoever told you you were free? 'whoever said that is your enemy'. the US has the most people incarcerated per capita than any country on the PLANET, yes including red china and the former soviet union. you are not free.if you think so, go take a day to do whatever you want and see what happens. don't pay your taxes. steal some stuff. get really really high. and see how long that last before you end up in jail.

enjoy your 'freedoms' citizen! while they are still allowed to you by your superiors.

Again, I will be coming back to this (ugh...today is "Family Fun Day" at my husband's unit, need to get going soon, but TOTALLY want to dedicate more time to this!):

Real quick- I actually don't drink but maybe a glass of wine once a month, or put wine into my food for cooking. For the exact reason I explained above. But I've been put into situations where I have to be on top of my game (I didn't begin drinking until I turned 21, and one of the nights that I DID drink to excess, I struggled to help a drunk teenager on the phone to help him get through an issue he was having. I never want to go through that again.

I was thinking about this today and it bugged me, though I did come up with perhaps a good system of drug use.

I would agree with the majority of people here and say that ALL drugs should be legalised. The intention behind making drugs illegal, obviously, is to stop people from getting them. If this happened then I suppose I wouldn't be THAT bothered by the fact that they are illegal. However, it obviously does not work and to be honest, who knows where your money goes down the line, but it's definitely not doing any good (I think just yesterday twenty bodies were dumped in Mexico by the drug cartels "as a warning" and that that is a reasonably regular occurence).

If they were to be legalised, when people are taking drugs they should just be aware of the effect that it has on them, or they can look at the effect that it has on other people. A lot of drugs are non-addictive (eg. Ketamine, MDMA, Marijuana, LSD) if you are taking them and it really has no impact on your life, why not take them? On the other hand if you see that something is not doing you any good, just stop taking it! I was a reasonably heavy pot smoker / regular drug user. I realised that doing drugs wasn't for me at all, although I still smoke dope once in a while, I'm more or less teetotal and it is for the better. I am not saying I am some sort of angel, nothing I did was addictive and it took very little will power, if any, to stop taking them. On the other hand I would never do something like heroin / crack cocaine, as you only have to look at the effect that it has on other people to see that it is something you shouldn't do.

I accept, however, that it can be extremely hard even to quit drugs that aren't 'hard'. A good friend of mine is a recovering addict who never took anything harder than Cocaine. He has not gone to prison etc. rather he, by his own volition, began going to NA meetings and took other steps to get clean which he has done.

Overall I guess my problem with drugs being illegal is 1) It funds some serious Scarface crime that kills thousands of people each year and 2) It puts people in prison completely unnecassarily, why not just put them in rehab which is cheaper and less damaging to the person (although I think if you have committed crime, even if it is under the influence, you should go to prison)

Strangely enough, I saw this link today:
http://www.stumbleupon.com/su/2M445t

Oddly enough I saw this link today....

http://news.yahoo.com/mexico-drug-wars-latest-toll-49-headless-bodies-060811826.html

The article doesn't state which particular set of narcotics the cartels are involved in but this is exactly the sort of problem that criminalisation creates. Legalised sources can be verified and regulated, non-legal sources can't so easily.