Is anything not a metaphor?

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22 Jan 2013 22:00 #90773 by Akkarin
Replied by Akkarin on topic Is anything not a metaphor?
Proteus, I am not discussing whether your views are right or wrong, I'm merely questioning why some aspect of a world-view that encompasses everything could be wrong ;)

The question shouldn't be about the aspect of the view but the view itself. It shouldn't be "Can something not be a metaphor with this view?" but rather "Can everything be viewed as a metaphor?"

Does that make sense?

"If a tree falls in the woods and no one's around to hear it except for one man, but the tree falls on that man and kills him, does the man dying make a sound?" - Jon Lajoie

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22 Jan 2013 22:27 #90782 by Alexandre Orion
so then what's the metaphor for the metaphor of the metaphor metaphorically ?

:evil:

"Chaque homme a des devoirs envers l'homme en tant qu'homme."
~ Henri Bergson
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22 Jan 2013 22:34 #90786 by Jestor
Replied by Jestor on topic Is anything not a metaphor?
BOOM....

My head exploded ......

Metaphor-ception....;)

Sith ain't Evil...
Jedi ain't Saints....


"Bake or bake not. There is no fry" - Sean Ching


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TOTJO Council
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22 Jan 2013 22:44 #90789 by Joe
Replied by Joe on topic Is anything not a metaphor?
I haven't reached the alan watts books yet, but anyway...

Also, this might be a little off-topic.

Proteus wrote: My way of thinking, is that the "Force" is the energy or "happening" of all things. The actual idea of "Force" is not that of a thing but of a process of action, of flow, of "being", since even the word "be" is a verb and not a noun (at least in English). To "be" is a happening of itself, and whatever something is "being", to me, seems to form what I am seeing as the metaphor.

Perhaps to say that this way of thinking is incorrect may be to say that thinking of "the Force", and all it entails: the flow of things, the universe as a system and a process, is also incorrect, since what I'm explaining mirrors this if you think about it.

I know that this way of thinking may not exactly the be the most conventional, but is it incorrect? And is it really unfair?


Well, i agree here. I'm no expert in quantum physics, but as far as i know, even still matter, with no movement at all, is just the effect of movement. Depending on the frequency or direction of this flowing energy, we get different form of matter, such as neutrons and protons and electrons. So everything there is, and ever will be will be because there is movement.

And there is more: Movement is the cause of life at all. If there was no gravitational pull from the centres of our galaxies, no gases could be compressed enough to form stars, and, therefore, us.

So what is death, then? Stillness? because even if we die, we just move somewhere else, and the percussions of our deeds and words will someday reach the farthest edges of the universe.

So yeah, you could see the the saying "force" as a metaphor for a lot of things. Life, god, movement, flow, take your pick.

The universe doesn't always give us what we ask for.
But it always provides us with what we need.
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22 Jan 2013 22:57 - 22 Jan 2013 22:59 #90792 by Alexandre Orion
Okay ... I was just being silly earlier, right before heading home from conservatoire.

In some sense, saying that everything is a metaphor is like calling the pen a metaphor, writing with it and calling that a metaphor, saying that the perception/observation of writing with it is a metaphor and then making the whole experience a metaphor ...

... but what is it the metaphor of ? Even the metaphor is just a textual/lexical element.

It seems that ren got in a good word from an empiricist (Hume) perspective. Then there is also the phenomena/noumena slant of Kant. Watts would say that "it's just what it is" and that "nothing is like we perceive it 'out there'".

So, as I see it, everyone is as right as they can be for the moment about this. Good topic, Proteus ... ;)

"Chaque homme a des devoirs envers l'homme en tant qu'homme."
~ Henri Bergson
Last edit: 22 Jan 2013 22:59 by Alexandre Orion.

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22 Jan 2013 22:59 #90795 by Sidewalker
Wooo, this discussion is getting me pumped!

I suppose if energy can be projected as a wave and a particle at the same time, it stands to reason that something can be a symbol and a metaphor and an oreo cookie all at the same time, even collapsing the scope of that set of parallel existences into one of those things that excludes the others until it decides to be both one of those things exclusively and all of those things at the same time.

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22 Jan 2013 23:45 - 22 Jan 2013 23:54 #90802 by Proteus
Replied by Proteus on topic Is anything not a metaphor?

Akkarin wrote: Proteus, I am not discussing whether your views are right or wrong, I'm merely questioning why some aspect of a world-view that encompasses everything could be wrong ;)

The question shouldn't be about the aspect of the view but the view itself. It shouldn't be "Can something not be a metaphor with this view?" but rather "Can everything be viewed as a metaphor?"

Does that make sense?


Ahh, I see what you're saying. :P

Well, the reason why I questioned it the way that I did is because the more I thought about it, the more it seemed that everything I could think of WAS a metaphor in one way or another, and so turned me around to question if everything Really IS a metaphor, or if it just seems that way - by asking if there is even one thing that ISN'T. ;) If there was one thing that can't be, then it would possibly falsify the idea. I figured it could make the topic even more interesting than just shooting strait onto "everything is a metaphor". But even approaching it in the direction of all that is a metaphor could give us the same conclusion I suppose. :P

Alexandre Orion wrote: ... but what is it the metaphor of ? Even the metaphor is just a textual/lexical element.


This also went through my mind, the idea of even the thing a metaphor represents is also a metaphor, like a mirror reflecting an opposing mirror forever? And so, is there even a single actual thing that the metaphors stop at? I don't see it. :ohmy:

:silly:

It seems that I know that I know.
What I would like to see is the 'I' that knows me when I know that I know that I know.
- Alan Watts
Last edit: 22 Jan 2013 23:54 by Proteus.

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23 Jan 2013 00:40 #90816 by Sidewalker
Yes! One should reflect on the mirrored mirror analogy when considering everything! This conversation has aided me in puncturing another restrictive membrane of my universe . . . the mirrored mirror is the perfect visual for the infinity of the self/universe!

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23 Jan 2013 02:04 #90840 by Jestor
Replied by Jestor on topic Is anything not a metaphor?
Look at a pencil...

Remove the word "pencil"...

Now, remove the observer....

What you have left "is"....

And is not a metaphor for anything....;)

Sith ain't Evil...
Jedi ain't Saints....


"Bake or bake not. There is no fry" - Sean Ching


Rite: PureLand
TOTJO Council
Master: Jasper_Ward
Current Apprentices: Viskhard, DanWerts, Llama Su, Trisskar
Former Apprentices: Knight Learn_To_Know, Knight Edan, Knight Brenna, Knight Madhatter

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23 Jan 2013 02:36 #90847 by Sidewalker
That's a good one, Jestor. It's a stabilizing thought.

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