The Man Thread: a discussion (and celebration) of masculinity

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22 Jan 2019 17:27 #332831 by Zephyrus

Kyrin Wyldstar wrote: In the first place toxic masculinity is not real


This is such a prevalent issue in our culture that I can't breeze by this without feeling the responsibility to ask you why you would make this kind of assertion. I have three questions: What is toxic masculinity to you? What is toxic masculinity to society? And, why do you think they don't exist?

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22 Jan 2019 17:37 #332832 by Kyrin Wyldstar

Connor L. wrote:

Kyrin Wyldstar wrote: In the first place toxic masculinity is not real


This is such a prevalent issue in our culture that I can't breeze by this without feeling the responsibility to ask you why you would make this kind of assertion. I have three questions: What is toxic masculinity to you? What is toxic masculinity to society? And, why do you think they don't exist?


These sorts of claims are no different than assertions that male privilege exists. There is just no evidence to support them. If you believe in toxic masculinity do you also believe toxic femininity?

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22 Jan 2019 17:40 - 22 Jan 2019 17:41 #332833 by Arisaig
For anything, there is a toxic version of it. Toxic Christianity, Toxic World of Warcraft Players, Toxic Car Drivers.

Its not a problem to be part of that group. The problem comes in taking the worst aspects of it and ramping it up to 12.

So yes. There is toxic masculinity and there is of course toxic femininity.
Last edit: 22 Jan 2019 17:41 by Arisaig.

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22 Jan 2019 17:58 #332836 by Kyrin Wyldstar

Arisaig wrote: So yes. There is toxic masculinity and there is of course toxic femininity.[/color]


Sorry but you are wrong. To emphasize group identity over individuality in a disparaging way is invalid because it causes cognitive bias.

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22 Jan 2019 18:32 #332838 by Arisaig

Kyrin Wyldstar wrote:

Arisaig wrote: So yes. There is toxic masculinity and there is of course toxic femininity.[/color]


Sorry but you are wrong. To emphasize group identity over individuality in a disparaging way is invalid because it causes cognitive bias.


Never said anything about group identity, and in fact am pointing out individual decision. Read the entire post.

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22 Jan 2019 18:37 - 22 Jan 2019 18:42 #332840 by OB1Shinobi
Great discussion, i may chime in eventually, myself. Not exacy consistent with the intended theme. Id like to request we take the debates about the existence of toxicity and prejudice to this thread

www.templeofthejediorder.org/forum/open-...sculinity-femininity

The child who is not embraced by the village will burn it down in order to feel it’s warmth.
-supposedly an African proverb.
Last edit: 22 Jan 2019 18:42 by OB1Shinobi.

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22 Jan 2019 18:38 #332841 by Kyrin Wyldstar

Arisaig wrote:

Kyrin Wyldstar wrote:

Arisaig wrote: So yes. There is toxic masculinity and there is of course toxic femininity.[/color]


Sorry but you are wrong. To emphasize group identity over individuality in a disparaging way is invalid because it causes cognitive bias.


Never said anything about group identity, and in fact am pointing out individual decision. Read the entire post.


So can a female be guilty of toxic masculinity?

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22 Jan 2019 18:41 #332843 by Kyrin Wyldstar

OB1Shinobi wrote: Great discussion, i may chime in eventually, myself. Not exacy consistent with the intended theme. Id like to request we take the debates about toxicity and prejudice to this thread

www.templeofthejediorder.org/forum/open-...sculinity-femininity


What is the intended theme? I posted a set of comments in that theme and was challenged. You have also been challenged in this thread. this seems to be a pervasive issue that I think is best addressed in this thread. People cant seem to celebrate this without inserting their own preconceived biases.

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22 Jan 2019 18:49 - 22 Jan 2019 19:15 #332845 by OB1Shinobi

Kyrin Wyldstar wrote:

OB1Shinobi wrote: Great discussion, i may chime in eventually, myself. Not exacy consistent with the intended theme. Id like to request we take the debates about toxicity and prejudice to this thread

www.templeofthejediorder.org/forum/open-...sculinity-femininity


What is the intended theme? I posted a set of comments in that theme and was challenged. You have also been challenged in this thread. this seems to be a pervasive issue that I think is best addressed in this thread. People cant seem to celebrate this without inserting their own preconceived biases.



Built into this thread is the presupposition that masculinity is fundamentally a good thing. Im not going to even acknowledge any challenge to that thesis, here. The purpose and premise of this thread is to acknowledge and clarify that goodness, not to debate it. This thread is meant to be a supportive and positive experience for everyone involved. Im also hoping to hear more peoples answers to the questions i posted (from both the men and the women) and allowing the topic to enter into the debate of toxicity will stifle that.

We may have to sort through the debate points first, but id like to keep the debates themselves separate, please.

The child who is not embraced by the village will burn it down in order to feel it’s warmth.
-supposedly an African proverb.
Last edit: 22 Jan 2019 19:15 by OB1Shinobi.
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22 Jan 2019 19:09 #332847 by Arisaig
My father stepped out of the picture when I was quite young. He came back, after a few years, but only phsycially. He was never really active in my life beyond supporting the family.

Mostly, I was raised by mother, with my sister, cousins (all female), my aunt, and my uncle (who is easily a definition of toxic masculinity).

So, as a result, I was left without male role models well into my life.

So, I ended up turning to books where I discovered Aragon, son of Arathorn.

To me, he is the hight of masculinity. He is strong, capable, dependable, loyal, and a leader (albeit unwillingly). But, he is also caring, passionate (openly mourning, kissing his friends, embracing his allies, not afraid to be seen as vulnerable). He can be tender and soft with those he loves, but also a stone wall to his enemies. He knows when to be quiet, and also when to charge in with a war cry on his lips.

Growing up, he was my hero. The movies only bolstered that image, Viggo portraying him masterfully.

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