Theological Challenge

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01 Sep 2017 02:30 #300204 by Alethea Thompson
Pick a creation myth and find a way that it links back to the Jedi Compass or Armonia's Jedi Code.

I'll go first to illustrate (and hope that no one from the Christian Jedi group sees this before they make a move to answer the question on our facebook group XD).

FROM A CHRISTIAN PROSPECTIVE, using what we have at Force Academy (that way it gives someone an opportunity to find a way to connect it to the ToTJO Doctrine XD)

Genesis Chapters 1-2 outline the significance of each aspect in the crafting of the world. We find that a number of things had to align until we could get to animals. But what is most intriguing is that in Chapter 1 we learn that man was meant to have dominion over the animals and effectively be their caretakers. Then in Chapter 2, we learn that Adam and Eve were further charged with maintaining the Earth by tilling it. The second chapter goes on to explain that humans are meant to work together- which was represented in the union of man and woman.

If we take this into account, it shows that more than a simple telling of the creation of the world and God's vision. It gives man a purpose. In the Jedi Compass we can find this embodied in the Core Ethic "Duty to All". When it was first discussed, Temple of the Jedi Order pursued a line of thought that a Jedi might not find their heroic duty in service to their fellow man, but rather to animals. As such, the idea of "Duty to the People" became "Duty to All" to represent that we live in a world very connected to everything- and man does have responsibility to the environment as much as it does to each other. This matches perfectly with the purpose of humans in the beginning of Genesis.

This also ties into the line in the Armonia Jedi Code "We respect our connected world". As such, it is equally our understanding that because the world is inner-connected, we are the stewards meant to take care of it by divine order.

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01 Sep 2017 05:37 #300214 by Lykeios
Replied by Lykeios on topic Theological Challenge
Well, the creation myth I would choose is the Ancient Greek creation myth. While I COULD stretch it and relate it to Jediism I choose not to do so. I think doing so would water down both Jediism and my religious beliefs.

The Greek creation myth goes something like this.

At first there was only Khaos. He was the void. Then, Gaia (earth) came into being and she mated with Khaos and everything began. Within Gaia were several other beings the darkest of which was Tartarus. Gaia was surrounded by Ouranos (the sky) and they fell in love. They begat many children. Gaia's children the Giants (who Ouranos hated and had imprisoned deep within Gaia) and the Titans were ruled over by Ouranos who was cruel. Gaia grew tired of seeing her children hurt by their father so she whispered to Kronos and encouraged him to overthrow Ouranos. Kronos took up his sickle and castrated Ouranos so he could no longer torture Gaia and her children. Aphrodite was born of the sea foam that arose around Ouranos' members.

The Titans, powerful children of Gaia, ruled over the world for a long time. The first men were created by Prometheus, craftiest of the Titans, and they too were ruled by the cruel Titan Kronos. Afraid of a prophecy that said his children would overthrow him, Kronos ate all of his children just after they were born. His wife, Rhea, despaired and decided to trick her husband. When she gave birth to her last child, Zeus, she replaced him with a stone which Kronos ate greedily, unwise to the ploy.
Once Zeus was grown, Rhea fed Kronos a mixture of mustard seed which made the Titan vomit up all of his children. Zeus led them in battle and they stole their father's sickle, cut him to pieces, and cast him into the depths of Tartarus to be punished for all time. After the war against the Titans Zeus and his brothers Hades and Poseidon drew lots to portion out the world amongst them. Zeus drew the sky and he rules over the world as king. Poseidon drew the ocean and rules over the seas. Hades drew the shortest lot and rules over the Underworld of Erebus deep in the bowels of Gaia.

I could go on, but that's where the actual creation story ends. So, you see, the Gods, the Titans before them, and the primordials before them are actually personifications of natural phenomena or places. In Ancient Greece it would have made perfect sense to say "Zeus is raining" or "Poseidon is storming" the Gods ARE their domains.

I could tie this in to Jediism (and have in the past) but I choose not to do so. Force realism is tied into my religious beliefs but it is also somewhat separate from them.

"I sae rantingly, an sae dauntingly, sae wantonly gaed he. He played a tune and he danced all aroond below the gallows tree."

"Now I do not know whether I was then a man dreaming I was a butterfly, or whether I am now a butterfly, dreaming I am a man." -Zhuangzi

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01 Sep 2017 13:43 #300220 by Alethea Thompson
That's really too bad. The challenge is more about finding a meaningful reason to tell the story of creation. If there is none, then why have a creation myth at all? To explain the birth so people will shut up about it?

I've met a few indigenous spiritual leaders which say that their tribe's creation myths have a plethora of hidden meaning. They have health tips woven into them, information meant to help their tribes find value in their own lives, etc.

The point of using the Jedi Philosophy is to gain a new way of exploring how our modern views connect with our ancestors views.

Since you won't relate it to the Jedi Path,let me ask you: What value is there to be found in the Greek Creation myth? Or is it just some story so people will stop asking how the gods were given dominion over nature?
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01 Sep 2017 15:02 #300226 by Br. John
Replied by Br. John on topic Theological Challenge
The Two Biblical Stories of Creation

Most people don't realize it, but there are two (yes, count 'em TWO) different and contradictory stories of Creation in Genesis, the first book of the Bible. The first story runs from Genesis 1:1 thru Genesis 2:3; the second story picks up at Genesis 2:4 and runs to the end of the chapter at Genesis 2:25.

In the first story, Creation takes six days and man (and woman) are created last after all the plants and animals are created. In the second story, Creation takes one day, man is created first, then all the plants and animals are created, and finally woman is created.

Below are the two stories side-by-side for easy comparison


www.leighb.com/genesis.htm

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01 Sep 2017 16:31 #300236 by Alethea Thompson
Some traditions hold that the second creation story is in reference to a second Earth Age. They explain that the Earth is actually much older than 6000 years, and that during the first Earth Age Dinosaurs were on the Earth.

While others hold that the Second Chapter is a continuation of the first, and Adam and Eve were created on the 8th Day, which explains how Cain was able to find a wife. The first set of man was meant to have dominion over the animals- Adam and Eve represent a more educated man, one that understood how to work with tools. The animals created with Adam were meant to be the type of animals man would be able to tame and/or use for food.

Others, as you mention, don't really notice that the two chapters are not exactly consistent and therefore ignore it. But the truth may have more value if we look at a theory that makes the statement that Jewish verbal traditions may have gotten some of the information confused, and therefore Chapter 1 and 2 are two separate verbal traditions within Jewish history, and meant to stand alone rather than be used together: law2.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/scopes/gen1st.htm
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01 Sep 2017 20:17 - 01 Sep 2017 20:23 #300254 by Lykeios
Replied by Lykeios on topic Theological Challenge

Alethea Thompson wrote: That's really too bad. The challenge is more about finding a meaningful reason to tell the story of creation. If there is none, then why have a creation myth at all? To explain the birth so people will shut up about it?

I've met a few indigenous spiritual leaders which say that their tribe's creation myths have a plethora of hidden meaning. They have health tips woven into them, information meant to help their tribes find value in their own lives, etc.

The point of using the Jedi Philosophy is to gain a new way of exploring how our modern views connect with our ancestors views.

Since you won't relate it to the Jedi Path,let me ask you: What value is there to be found in the Greek Creation myth? Or is it just some story so people will stop asking how the gods were given dominion over nature?

I always related the "creation" myth (creation in quotes because I don't think the Greek myth really speaks to creation) to scientific principles such as the Big Bang theory. Without stretching too much I take the beginning where all was chaos to be the universe before the "Big Bang." The earth/Gaia then came out of the Big Bang/big expansion. I know this is not how the original tellings of it were intended, but it is my modern interpretation.

I don't need to relate everything back to Jediism or Force realism for it to have meaning. On the other hand, it isn't like I go around telling people about the myth. I only mention it if the subject comes up (like in this thread).

The way I relate the myth to Jediism? Well the only thing I used to do to relate the two is to say that the Force is the power source of the Gods. They have access to its power in some way and use it to oversee the earth/universe. As anthropomorphic representations of natural phenomena/natural places the Gods wield the power of nature which, to me, is the Force.

Why have a creation myth if I don't spread it around and tell people about it? For myself. It is a part of my beliefs and I don't need to tell others about them to give them meaning and importance.

"I sae rantingly, an sae dauntingly, sae wantonly gaed he. He played a tune and he danced all aroond below the gallows tree."

"Now I do not know whether I was then a man dreaming I was a butterfly, or whether I am now a butterfly, dreaming I am a man." -Zhuangzi
Last edit: 01 Sep 2017 20:23 by Lykeios.
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