Questions for educ admin and council

Yes that was the lesson on natural law. Basically an anti lesson that was designed to force me into a paradigm that council felt I needed to adopt. Once again trying to direct me into a rabbit hole of conformity. This is something Alan never did to me.

And for the average neophyte here to second guess a knight with a PhD in philosophy in this is just a complete lack of vision as far as I'm concerned

Jedi who study the Jedi way don't need a PhD in anything , they also don't need to be talked down from people who have one. Maybe if people got of their high horses , or take their heads out of their highly educated asses they might see that being a Jedi is about being of service and not about who has the highest rank or degree and oww.. as i remember it , it were another Professeur or two who tried to mediate , but if someone keeps insisting that he is right then its very hard to find a middle ground.

You should have done the lesson Kyrin , you would probably have been wiser than to start threads to get your way after the fact. You would have been a Knight , and you could have taught your students your way within reason. And from what i see from you now , it was well within reason to ask you to do some more lessons ...more words dont mean more wisdom.

Serenity wrote:

And for the average neophyte here to second guess a knight with a PhD in philosophy in this is just a complete lack of vision as far as I'm concerned

Jedi who study the Jedi way don't need a PhD in anything , they also don't need to be talked down from people who have one. Maybe if people got of their high horses , or take their heads out of their highly educated asses they might see that being a Jedi is about being of service and not about who has the highest rank or degree and oww.. as i remember it , it were another Professeur or two who tried to mediate , but if someone keeps insisting that he is right then its very hard to find a middle ground.

You should have done the lesson Kyrin , you would probably have been wiser than to start threads to get your way after the fact. You would have been a Knight , and you could have taught your students your way within reason. And from what i see from you now , it was well within reason to ask you to do some more lessons ...more words dont mean more wisdom.

Kyrin is not saying you need a PhD to be a Jedi. She's saying Alan has a PhD in Philosophy, and yet his ability and judgment as a teacher was questioned until he ultimately left. We lost a great resource to the Temple over bickering. It isn't about high horses or heads up asses when you have no idea what service Alan or Kyrin provide outside of this Temple, and it is highly presumptuous of you to assume that this was just about rank. You don't know who these people are as "Jedi" in their daily lives, just as I don't pretend to know what kind of "Jedi" you are in yours.

As someone who abandoned the role of Knight and of TM here, I also don't think it is your place to lecture others about what what lessons they should take. More words don't mean more wisdom, but neither do more lessons on topics that have already been explored thoroughly before. It may have been well within reason to ask for more lessons, but it was well within reason for Kyrin to decline or ask for different assignments as well. This is her path to walk more than it is the Temple's to dictate.

As someone who abandoned the role of Knight and of TM here, I also don't think it is your place to lecture others about what what lessons they should take. More words don't mean more wisdom, but neither do more lessons on topics that have already been explored thoroughly before. It may have been well within reason to ask for more lessons, but it was well within reason for Kyrin to decline or ask for different assignments as well. This is her path to walk more than it is the Temple's to dictate.

That is your opinion , and you are entitled to your opinion , but i must say that the unclarity of the rules and requirements led to this misunderstanding that lead to the fact that your apprentice did not get knighted. I am well aware that the proces was not handled right , but i think that making threads to get justice after the fact is no use. As for being of service , i am in no way saying people are not of service Outside the Temple , i merely comment on what i can see here. I can be the best Jedi in the real world and no one would know. And i appreciate you standing up for your apprentice , but i think Kyrin knows me by now and can stand up for herself ...

Thank you, Serenity, for your calm and measured response. I got a bit too heated there in my response to you and should have taken more time to consider my emotions before spouting off like that. I apologize. I do respect you and you have always shared your honest opinions with me.

You are right that I do have a vested interest in Kyrin being that we are now working together, but a lot of my passion for this particular subject is trying to determine just what went so wrong in the first place so we can prevent it from happening to another Apprentice in the future. Kyrin may never become a Knight here and that will be a result of her actions and choices, but I'd hate to see this happen again if it can be avoided. If an Apprentice needs more work and is denied Knighthood, the reasons should be clear and we should have a written policy to point them toward as an explanation.

Despite this thread and many before it, we have still never managed to nail down exactly where the failure occurred. We have been able to determine it was a complex combination of confusing circumstances and reactions from multiple individuals that lead to the eventual outcome. We'll probably never be able to put all of the pieces in place to solve that riddle, but it is worth talking about. We've never really clarified the rules and procedures as they currently stand in a way that can be easily referenced. I think that is the goal now.

Never apologize for being the hot blooded alpha male you are Senan, Kyrin is lucky to have you as a Master :lol:

If an Apprentice needs more work and is denied Knighthood, the reasons should be clear and we should have a written policy to point them toward as an explanation.

Yes that was what i was getting at Senan. She is a victim of unclear rules , and i really hope your apprentice/master relationship will be more fruitfull , even if she does not become a Knight , its the path that is important.

Serenity wrote:
You should have done the lesson Kyrin , you would probably have been wiser than to start threads to get your way after the fact.

I did do the lesson. Did it make me wiser? What "way" am I trying to get here now? I don't believe I have demanded anything in this thread have I?

I did do the lesson. Did it make me wiser?

I hope so ?

What "way" am I trying to get here now? I don't believe I have demanded anything in this thread have I?

I realise that you want clarity , and guidelines and maybe prevent that something like this does not happen to anyone else. Your case has clearly been investigated thouroughly and i now think that you have to accept that it is what it is. But i do agree with the fact that things are moving slow , maybe too slow. It is confusing , and that can be frustrating. I do wish you the best Kyrin.

I realize that in general, we are trained to deal diplomatic, sometimes verbose responses, that serve the function of addressing a point without making too strong a stand.

But Kyrin likes it rough. :laugh:

When she gets the inflated verbose response, she will pick it apart in an effort to clarify. I once had a boss who did that... I LOVED her, she called us on our BS and demanded straight answers. I got into the habit of answering straight as well.

As long as verbose responses abound, you can bet Kyrin will be there to dismantle them. That IS service (whether it makes you uncomfortable or not).

Serenity,

I have accepted things for what they are a long time ago. This thread is not about me and I am not advocating for myself. This sprung out of another thread where policies and procedures were questioned and this thread was a natural evolution of that. I was the greatest advocate to start it since I was affected the most by the lack of not only procedure but the councils lack of understanding of what little procedure that does exist. I think the simple fact that you have stepped down as well is proof enough that you would agree that you are as tired as many others of us here that bureaucracy and ineptitude is driving the greatest talent away from this temple.

As for the lesson making me wiser, no not really. It just reinforced my position that natural law does not exist. A fact I had explored many lessons ago with Alan but was forced to do again. When that vein continued I began to refuse further lessons. That was all, I was not finding them relevant nor was I getting anything out of them.