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Editing Rights Question

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12 Jan 2018 04:01 - 22 Jan 2018 07:58 #311896 by Opie Macleod
Is it really okay for Br. John to edit people's posts for personal issues at his whim? Is this not a problem for the organization?

I get not liking the Church of Jediism. I do. But going into people's topics and editing the link to his dedicated website of mockery seems an over-reach. Certainly doesn't seem like something a Jedi Site would support? He can claim not to be a Jedi, so having those type of sites to begin with can exist under that banner. But allowing him to edit a person's topic because of that personal distaste? Changing a link because of his own issue. Is that really the image and behavior this place wants to encourage?

To be clear - if the answer is yes, then cool deal. Or some form of yes by inactivity, then cool. I am just trying to discern what level of invasion is allowed here and how it is regulated. If that is - he is the founder so he can do what he wants. Again, cool deal. Just looking to understand what this group allows. Just seemed to me to be an over-reach and not really fall in line with behavior that might be normally encouraged. 0123456789
Last edit: 22 Jan 2018 07:58 by ---.
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12 Jan 2018 04:10 - 12 Jan 2018 04:14 #311897 by Avalon
Replied by Avalon on topic Editing Rights Question
Technically the rule per the FAQ is no external links. Exceptions tend to be made for things like personal, off-site journals, vlogs, youtube channels, etc...

Editing a link from one URL to another. . . . That's... yeah no, not cool John. . . As it is, there's already a ton of discussion going on about moderators editing posts. It's one of the things that was commented on in the climate survey. To simply redirect the link because you don't approve of (and we know you don't) the founder of the other site is uncalled for and a bit inappropriate.

And thanks for posting this Opie. Greatly appreciated.

Not all those who wander are lost
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Last edit: 12 Jan 2018 04:14 by Avalon.
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12 Jan 2018 04:39 - 12 Jan 2018 04:47 #311898 by MadHatter
Replied by MadHatter on topic Editing Rights Question
I spoke to John about it and I am sure he will speak for himself at some point. I fixed the posts to remove all links. Linking to general blogs or things about Jediism is fine but outside training sites is generally a no unless a request is made to Council as per the rules.

The reason for this at least to my understanding is that supporting outside sites puts our reputation linked to theirs and should they promote something less than legal or healthy we can become tied to that same support. Or at least that is my own view on not allowing links or openly supporting any particular site.

Knight of the Order
Training Master: Jestor
Apprentices: Lama Su, Leah
Just a pop culture Jedi doing what I can
Last edit: 12 Jan 2018 04:47 by MadHatter.
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12 Jan 2018 05:18 - 12 Jan 2018 16:21 #311902 by Br. John
Replied by Br. John on topic Editing Rights Question

Opie Macleod wrote: Is it really okay for Br. John to edit people's posts for personal issues at his whim? Is this not a problem for the organization?

I get not liking the Church of Jediism. I do. But going into people's topics and editing the link to his dedicated website of mockery seems an over-reach. Certainly doesn't seem like something a Jedi Site would support? He can claim not to be a Jedi, so having those type of sites to begin with can exist under that banner. But allowing him to edit a person's topic because of that personal distaste? Changing a link because of his own issue. Is that really the image and behavior this place wants to encourage?

To be clear - if the answer is yes, then cool deal. Or some form of yes by inactivity, then cool. I am just trying to discern what level of invasion is allowed here and how it is regulated. If that is - he is the founder so he can do what he wants. Again, cool deal. Just looking to understand what this group allows. Just seemed to me to be an over-reach and not really fall in line with behavior that might be normally encouraged.


I don't go on your site and tell people your issues or criticize the way you do things. That would be rude. Especially if it was an issue that could be resolved with a PM. That would make me an
Warning: Spoiler! [ Click to expand ]
You could have PM'd me and asked about it. You could have PM'd member affairs about it. The only person with a right to complain is the poster. The name of the place was still there. Do you think anyone here is not capable of finding Daniel Jones' for profit business named The Church of Jediism? Since you've decided to try and make a public spectacle out of it please continue and really do it right. Have another drink, then kindly tell me any facts I'm wrong about on BecomeTheFarce.com and I'll correct them. I'd also like to know how telling the truth about something is mocking something.

Founder of The Order
Last edit: 12 Jan 2018 16:21 by MadHatter.
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12 Jan 2018 05:27 - 12 Jan 2018 05:52 #311903 by Kyrin Wyldstar

Br. John wrote:

Warning: Spoiler! [ Click to expand ]
. .



LMAO and this is why I love this place!!!!

This guns for hire, even if we're just dancing in the dark.
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Last edit: 12 Jan 2018 05:52 by MadHatter.

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12 Jan 2018 13:54 - 12 Jan 2018 16:20 #311918 by Manu
Replied by Manu on topic Editing Rights Question

Br. John wrote: I don't go on your site and tell people your issues or criticize the way you do things. That would be rude. Especially if it was an issue that could be resolved with a PM. That would make me

Warning: Spoiler! [ Click to expand ]
. You could have PM'd me and asked about it. You could have PM'd member affairs about it. The only person with a right to complain is the poster. The name of the place was still there. Do you think anyone here is not capable of finding Daniel Jones' for profit business named The Church of Jediism? Since you've decided to try and make a public spectacle out of it please continue and really do it right. Have another drink, then kindly tell me any facts I'm wrong about on BecomeTheFarce.com and I'll correct them. I'd also like to know how telling the truth about something is mocking something.


If we are indeed worried about external links reflecting poorly on TOTJO, should we not worry about how it reflects upon this Organization when a senior member publicly insults a person asking a legitimate question in a forum titled "Confused? Ask for Help"?

Also, is such an inflammatory response likely to achieve the desired result of stopping this issue on its tracks, or does it only add to the fire?

I am confused. Please do help.

The truth is something that burns. It burns off dead wood. And people don't like having the dead wood burnt off, often because they're 95 percent dead wood. - Jordan Peterson
Last edit: 12 Jan 2018 16:20 by MadHatter.
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12 Jan 2018 14:25 #311919 by Avalon
Replied by Avalon on topic Editing Rights Question
I could be wrong, but I believe you've missed the point of Opie's post, John.

That is to say, it wasn't to call to attention whether or not the facts on your site were accurate or not.

Rather, the point of his post was to question the legitimacy of the moderating that was being conducted. That is to stay, instead of enforcing the rules as they're posted on the site (no external links), you instead allowed a personal bias to impact your moderation against a single link. I say personal bias because you have made, and continue to make, your opinion against Jones plainly obvious across this site.

If the issue had been with the links themselves, then the appropriate action would have been to do as MadHatter did, which is to have removed both links entirely. The fact that all you did was change one link from the actual site being referenced to a site of your own creation only enforces the impression that the moderation was done out of a personal bias rather than a legitimate enforcement of the rules of the site, which thus makes the moderation illegitimate.

Such questioning falls into line with current discussion at TOTJO, which is the moderation of posts and when it's done legitimately and illegitimately has been called to question as of late. Sure, Opie called out your action, but that's because it is just the most recent example.

So the real discussion here isn't about the site you redirected the link to, but if the redirection was a legitimate or appropriate form of moderation (it wasn't) and what TOTJO considers a legitimate and appropriate form of moderation.

Just my two cents. I could be wrong.



On a bit of a site note, I'd caution not to take Opie's questioning personally, which it seems you have.

I also wonder... Have you considered the fact that your constant actions regarding Jones and his site only help to bring attention to him while conversely delegitimizing your position. That is to say, the more you comment negatively against Jones, the more attention people pay to him and the more you make it look like a personal vendetta. In turn, your actions in instances such as this look illegitimate because you appear to have been acting from a point of personal biases rather than actual legitimate enforcement of community rules.

I know I've commented to you about it in the past regarding other issues, but as the proclaimed president and a member of the council, you have an obligation to consider how your actions reflect upon TOTJO. Meaning, by using an official act (moderation of a post) to push that apparent personal agenda (your dislike of Jones resulting in you changing a link in a post to a site of your own creation), you make it appear as though that that is the official stance TOTJO takes towards the issue. And as has been stated in both the original thread in question, and in multiple other threads about multiple other issues, such an official stance doesn't actually exist ;)

You could have simply said in a separate post "I don't approve of Jones, and this is why (link to your site)" and left it at that (the appropriate course of action). Instead you turned it into an official matter through the use of moderation, and thus this entire conversation began.

Leadership isn't above scrutiny... even from guests ;)

Again, just my two cents. I could be wrong. I'll see my way out now.

Not all those who wander are lost
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12 Jan 2018 14:27 #311920 by Flojade
Replied by Flojade on topic Editing Rights Question
It is a fact that a position of responsibility as Br. John's can take its toll with the many complaints he must address all the time. I am sure we can all find the ressources in our hearts to forgive this slip. An apology would go a long way though.

Flojade
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12 Jan 2018 15:29 - 12 Jan 2018 15:56 #311923 by OB1Shinobi
Replied by OB1Shinobi on topic Editing Rights Question

Flojade wrote: It is a fact that a position of responsibility as Br. John's can take its toll with the many complaints he must address all the time. I am sure we can all find the ressources in our hearts to forgive this slip. An apology would go a long way though.



Are you trying to tell people how they should feel (that they should forgive Br John)? Or to tell Br John that its time for an apology? You have as much right as anyone to give your opinion on what you see, but do you believe that you know this situation and these peoople well enough to be qualified to decide who should feel what, and who owes who an apology, to tell other people what they should feel and what they should to do)?

Do you even know what the hell is going on here? Lol

Dont take this personally, please. If youre going to tell people what they should do, how important is it, do you think, to really understand why theyve done what theyve done? Do you understand the history here? Are you engaging with therelevant parties personally to find out why they feel the way they feel and why they act the ways they act?

Getting people to pipe down and play nice is not the same thing as mediating conflict. So, what are you trying to accomplish? Actual resolution, that leaves all parties feelig acknowledged and reinvested in their community, or just to shut people up so they dont express any kinds of feelings that make you uncomfortable?

My heroes had the heart to lose their lives out on a limb
And all I remember is thinking, I want to be like them
Last edit: 12 Jan 2018 15:56 by OB1Shinobi.
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12 Jan 2018 15:59 - 12 Jan 2018 16:49 #311925 by Arisaig
Replied by Arisaig on topic Editing Rights Question

Br. John wrote:

Opie Macleod wrote: Is it really okay for Br. John to edit people's posts for personal issues at his whim? Is this not a problem for the organization?

I get not liking the Church of Jediism. I do. But going into people's topics and editing the link to his dedicated website of mockery seems an over-reach. Certainly doesn't seem like something a Jedi Site would support? He can claim not to be a Jedi, so having those type of sites to begin with can exist under that banner. But allowing him to edit a person's topic because of that personal distaste? Changing a link because of his own issue. Is that really the image and behavior this place wants to encourage?

To be clear - if the answer is yes, then cool deal. Or some form of yes by inactivity, then cool. I am just trying to discern what level of invasion is allowed here and how it is regulated. If that is - he is the founder so he can do what he wants. Again, cool deal. Just looking to understand what this group allows. Just seemed to me to be an over-reach and not really fall in line with behavior that might be normally encouraged.


I don't go on your site and tell people your issues or criticize the way you do things. That would be rude. Especially if it was an issue that could be resolved with a PM. That would make me an
Warning: Spoiler! [ Click to expand ]
You could have PM'd me and asked about it. You could have PM'd member affairs about it. The only person with a right to complain is the poster. The name of the place was still there. Do you think anyone here is not capable of finding Daniel Jones' for profit business named ]The Church of Jediism? Since you've decided to try and make a public spectacle out of it please continue and really do it right. Have another drink, then kindly tell me any facts I'm wrong about on BecomeTheFarce.com and I'll correct them. I'd also like to know how telling the truth about something is mocking something.


Become the Farce? Seriously? This is why the Jedi community will never advance, because the leadership is too busy tearing each other apart rather than growing together.

EDIT: If you put as much work into tearing apart this book as you did training, you'd really be a Grandmaster.
Last edit: 12 Jan 2018 16:49 by Arisaig.

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