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The Knights Code

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26 May 2017 15:57 #285333 by Wescli Wardest
Replied by Wescli Wardest on topic The Knights Code

Tarran wrote:

tzb wrote: Many already dispute the "Jedi Believe" section, others feel the Creed is out of place, we even offer two flavours of the Code (surely one of the most fundamental aspects of all) meaning the majority will reject something or other.


I really don't know if this makes me seem bad, how bad, or whatever... and I must confess I'm losing any give-a-s##t about whether I do or not... but I really gotta say, I've been getting not only tired, but I dare say quite exhausted and fatigued, about how the masses want us to please each and every one of them. If people don't want to adhere to our "flavour" of Jediism, then they can move on - and that's not a bad thing to say, because there are certainly a multitude of others out there. We aren't the first "real-life Jedi", and I see nothing to indicate that we'd be the last. To each, their own, and there's nothing bad about that. We can't please everyone - nor should we nor anyone have to, nor even bother to try, quite frankly.


I completely understand!

And I think we all have been there at one time or another. I know I have.

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26 May 2017 15:57 - 26 May 2017 16:00 #285334 by Senan
Replied by Senan on topic The Knights Code

Tarran wrote:

tzb wrote: Many already dispute the "Jedi Believe" section, others feel the Creed is out of place, we even offer two flavours of the Code (surely one of the most fundamental aspects of all) meaning the majority will reject something or other.


I really don't know if this makes me seem bad, how bad, or whatever... and I must confess I'm losing any give-a-s##t about whether I do or not... but I really gotta say, I've been getting not only tired, but I dare say quite exhausted and fatigued, about how the masses want us to please each and every one of them. If people don't want to adhere to our "flavour" of Jediism, then they can move on - and that's not a bad thing to say, because there are certainly a multitude of others out there. We aren't the first "real-life Jedi", and I see nothing to indicate that we'd be the last. To each, their own, and there's nothing bad about that. We can't please everyone - nor should we nor anyone have to, nor even bother to try, quite frankly.


I don't know that issues like this are about "pleasing the masses", but about what we should be focused on as a Temple. Sure, we could tell people to leave if they don't like our brand of Jediism, but what is our brand of Jediism? I believe that is the point tzb is making. If everyone who disagreed with part of the Doctrine left, nobody would be here. It isn't perfect and it is purposely left open to interpretation. What is vitally important is that the Doctrine exists in print for people to scrutinize and decide for themselves if TOTJO Jediism fits with their personal paradigm. This has nothing to do with ranks or duties or obligations or vows. The Doctrine is the bedrock that those things are built on.

My take on the Knight's Code, as someone who is not yet a Knight but working to be one soon, is that it can be inspiring to anyone, but it's purpose is to guide Knights, hence the name. I compare it to the Oath, Law, and Motto I learned and recite for the Boy Scouts of America. These are great guidelines for anyone to know and believe, but they are meant to guide the words and actions of Boy Scouts specifically. Others can use them, but only Boy Scouts are truly bound by them. Putting the Knight's Code in the Library, the IP, and even in the FAQ is great, but it is not part of the Doctrine meant to apply to all TOTJO Jedi, and putting it there creates an expectation that many don't ever wish to fulfill.

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Last edit: 26 May 2017 16:00 by Senan.
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26 May 2017 16:13 #285336 by Tarran
Replied by Tarran on topic The Knights Code

Wescli Wardest wrote: Don’t get me wrong. I understand what you’re saying and where you’re coming from. I believe that all Jedi should at least have some desire to aspire to Knighthood. The Knight’s code has been an inspiration to me for years.

But as I see it, the knight’s code is not doctrine. It is a very pretty and inspirational code that can be extracted from our doctrine. You don’t have to agree with me, but does that make any sense?


Yeah, actually... and I think enough sense for me to agree. Odd, it isn't as though you used magic words (or a Jedi mind trick lol), but I do see where you're coming from. Still, that in and of itself doesn't quiet the part of me that sees it's exclusion from the doctrine (even as an aside, notable mention) as smacking with elitism somehow. Yes, I can sorta feel something "unfounded" about seeing it that way, but not 100%. Maybe I'm using the wrong words.

Look, when all is said and done, what matters to this humble snowflake before you (self-depreciating humour), isn't so much it's inclusion in the Doctrine, or even on the same page as it as an aside - but that it should not only be easily found, but in plain sight, even if it had its own dedicated page purely for its own self away from all else - it's an important inspirational thing for knights as well as those who aren't knightily inclined lol

I suppose I'm just suffering lack of sleep lol I get quite inordinately locked onto things when I'm like this. No, I don't mean my feelings aren't real, just perhaps a little amplified. And I still agree with all of what Master Alexandre said.

But yes, I do agree with you, too lol

Thank you for putting it in a way I could better grasp ^_^
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26 May 2017 16:15 #285337 by JLSpinner
Replied by JLSpinner on topic The Knights Code
I believe the Knights Code implies more and should remain a separate entity. If annexed to the doctrine page, however, nothing much would change. The Code wouldn't be compromised by any means.
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26 May 2017 16:22 - 26 May 2017 16:25 #285341 by OB1Shinobi
Replied by OB1Shinobi on topic The Knights Code
I like the knights code.. A lot.

But

Does "instrument of peace" and "where there is injury, pardon" reconcile with "his wrath undoes the wicked"?

It seems pretty taboo here to suggest there is even any such thing as "wicked", much less to go on about the business of "undoing" them

I cant breath.
Last edit: 26 May 2017 16:25 by OB1Shinobi.
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26 May 2017 16:27 - 26 May 2017 16:32 #285343 by Arisaig
Replied by Arisaig on topic The Knights Code

OB1Shinobi wrote: I like the knights code

But

Does "instrument of peace" and "where there is injury, pardon" reconcile with "his wrath undoes the wicked"?

It seems pretty taboo here to suggest there is even any such thing as "wicked", much less to go on about the business of "undoing" them


You seem to be thinking of the Jedi Creed, rather than the Knight's Code. :P

But my understanding of this section of the Creed is that a Jedi, Knight or not, will not stand by when they see injustices happening. A wicked act, in my mind, would be one where one claims dominion over another and commits attrocities to them (theft, murder, ECT). A Jedi should not stand by and pretend they do not see it, instead they are an instrument of peace and they restore that peace by being a sheild for those being hurt.
Last edit: 26 May 2017 16:32 by Arisaig.

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26 May 2017 16:28 #285344 by JLSpinner
Replied by JLSpinner on topic The Knights Code

OB1Shinobi wrote: I like the knights code.. A lot.

But

Does "instrument of peace" and "where there is injury, pardon" reconcile with "his wrath undoes the wicked"?

It seems pretty taboo here to suggest there is even any such thing as "wicked", much less to go on about the business of "undoing" them


I am a pacifist by far. However even I understand that force is sometimes necessary to do what is right. To stop a mugging or break up a fight for example.
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26 May 2017 16:51 - 26 May 2017 16:53 #285346 by Tarran
Replied by Tarran on topic The Knights Code

Senan wrote: I don't know that issues like this are about "pleasing the masses", but about what we should be focused on as a Temple. Sure, we could tell people to leave if they don't like our brand of Jediism, but what is our brand of Jediism? I believe that is the point tzb is making. If everyone who disagreed with part of the Doctrine left, nobody would be here. It isn't perfect and it is purposely left open to interpretation. What is vitally important is that the Doctrine exists in print for people to scrutinize and decide for themselves if TOTJO Jediism fits with their personal paradigm. This has nothing to do with ranks or duties or obligations or vows. The Doctrine is the bedrock that those things are built on.


You're right, of course. I suppose I was just fed up with the aforementioned feeling, and was just venting. My bad.

My take on the Knight's Code, as someone who is not yet a Knight but working to be one soon, is that it can be inspiring to anyone, but it's purpose is to guide Knights, hence the name. I compare it to the Oath, Law, and Motto I learned and recite for the Boy Scouts of America. These are great guidelines for anyone to know and believe, but they are meant to guide the words and actions of Boy Scouts specifically. Others can use them, but only Boy Scouts are truly bound by them.



I guess I was raised to think that *we all* are inherently knights, and whether greatly or even in the tiniest degree, should embody virtue and ethics, be we Dames and Knights, or Ladies and Gentlemen. I blame my upbringing ;)

Putting the Knight's Code in the Library, the IP, and even in the FAQ is great, but it is not part of the Doctrine meant to apply to all TOTJO Jedi, and putting it there creates an expectation that many don't ever wish to fulfill.



I'd put my previous paragraph here, too lol But again, on the doctrine page as an aside, a "notable mention" - but needn't even be on the same page - anywhere - just easily seen without hunting ;)
Last edit: 26 May 2017 16:53 by Tarran.
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26 May 2017 17:45 #285353 by Wescli Wardest
Replied by Wescli Wardest on topic The Knights Code
For those that are not familiar with the knight’s code I will give you a quick, short, dirty overview and brief one-sided explanation from my point of view.

The Knights Code


A Knight is sworn to valor.

People really need to come to terms with dedication, duty and the privilege of serving others. Valor is paramount in being able to face the things we have to sometimes when serving as knights. And it will be hard, take crap tons of inner strength and valor.

His heart knows only virtue;
This starts with the three tenets, undoing what we have learned and what the world has taught us. There will always be some things that coincide. But there are some that rather we realize it or not, corrupt our very way of thinking and in turn how our hearts are motivated to action.

His blade defends the helpless;
When one has done the lesson on the Blade, this will make more sense.

His word speaks only truth;
I could go into a several page sermon on according to natural law, almost all crimes or sins boil down to theft. One of the things that is stolen is truth. When one lies, is misinformed, not informed… Not speaking truth, steals from others. Their knowledge, security, world views, freedoms and very lives. When I man lies, he does murder some part of the world.

His Shield shelters the forsaken;
We should have a lesson on the shield. A shield is a tool that most people think of as only a defensive piece of equipment. It is so much more than that. It is a banner to declare to the world who you are. What you stand for. It is protection. And it is one of the deadliest weapons in a knight’s arsenal. Yes, a shield. Even on the battle field, I would rather have a shield only than a sword only. Who would need someone to shelter them with such a powerful tool more than the forsaken? How many of you actually know what forsaken means and who those people are?

His courage gives hope to the despairing;
Be the example! Each of you should really look at this one. It’s pretty powerful.

His justice undoes the wicked;
For me, this is easy to understand because I look at it from the standing of the laws of attraction and the principles of natural law. And I will leave all of you with that clue to go for yourself, look into it and come to your own conclusions. I hope your journey into this line of thought is as eye opening as it was for me. ;)

His image brings peace;
Now we begin to see how all of the parts already mentioned begin to formulate how the world will come to see you as a Knight. And the effect you can have on the world.

His code breaks the darkness;
The darkness, again, referring to truth, knowledge and natural law… if one were to look at truth and knowledge as being “in the light” and the absence of knowledge, the universal truths, as being in the dark, it begins to become very clear.

His legend brings light.
Considering all I have said already and anything you look up that I have mentioned, I will leave this one up to YOUR interpretation.

Monastic Order of Knights
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26 May 2017 17:55 #285355 by OB1Shinobi
Replied by OB1Shinobi on topic The Knights Code
I was referencing the dragonheart version. I like that one even better, thank you.

I cant breath.
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