Profiles - Gender

Avalonslight wrote:

Manu wrote:

MartaLina wrote:

Akkarin wrote:

ren wrote: No-one's forced to do anything. The option not to answer remains an option.

Gender is a metric that identifies significantly less people than Sex.

What if people want the option of putting something other than male/female? Doesn't this put us at the beginning of the thread? A text box seems the most straightforward if Gender is to remain an option. Indeed even if the option is sex (which was changed without Council notification) there are still non-binaries which would similarly be straightforwardly accommodated with a text box.

Another approach suggested would be to remove the option entirely, there is space for it in the "About Me" section of the profile. This option would also remove any issues with promoting one category over the other.

This is indeed the only logical option as other options dont respect either opinions on gender and sex , it was me who said that gender is the wrong word if you want to be adressed with HE , or SHE , because of all the variables and misconceptions and the complete lack of mutual respect here , there really is nothing more to say on the matter. I am begging the Council to have the whole sex and gender thing removed so we can get to know eachother as Jedi.

Since the ONLY reason the gender/sex field is relevant is for people to know how to address others, maybe we (and by "we" I mean ren :laugh: ) could change it to "How do we address you" and have the options be "he" or "she". And then be done with the whole issue.

Lmao he she or other

But yes there's that too!!

I'd get a bit spooked if someone decided to be referred to as "we". We are many, we go by many names. * head turns around 360 degrees * :dry:

HAHAHAHA :laugh:

Akkarin wrote: What if people want the option of putting something other than male/female?

I want to answer the box with... Often!

Or... Helicopter :woohoo:

:blink:
:woohoo: :silly: :laugh:

Manu wrote: I'd get a bit spooked if someone decided to be referred to as "we". We are many, we go by many names. * head turns around 360 degrees * :dry:

'My name is Legion, for we are many' ? :laugh:

What if there was just an text box for "Preferred pronoun(s)"

There would be no need for debate of sex vs gender and ultimately I don't give a crap what you consider yourself or what you are as long as I call you what you want to be called. It's like calling someone by the nickname they prefer instead of the name on their birth certificate. They have something that they prefer to be called, let's call them that. That is the only info I really care about from the members here. What do you want me to refer to you as? If you fill out the box "him/he" great, "her/she" awesome, "them/they" sweet, and if you honestly want to be referred to as "ugly octopus head" I will do my best to honor that wish. Why should it really matter to me?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pV1Gukj3dgc

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EDIT


i think this was the original

Discussions on the character of the participants is not helpful in a public forum and should be relegated to private messaging. Honestly, these debates are hard enough to follow for us, the simple minded. Poo flinging(whether they deserve a face full of chips or not) is distasteful, unneeded filler.

rugadd wrote: Discussions on the character of the participants is not helpful in a public forum and should be relegated to private messaging. Honestly, these debates are hard enough to follow for us, the simple minded. Poo flinging(whether they deserve a face full of chips or not) is distasteful, unneeded filler.

i actually disagree with this - observers get the benefit of watching the emotions play out through the responses of the participants

in general, the relative privacy of PM's allows people to hide - youd be surprised how different some people are when the conversation isnt public

having feedback from each other means that we have to deal with the feedback of the angry or petty or silly or ignorant. but it also means we can learn the viewpoints of the thoughtful and mature (all of us are all of these at different moments)

i say lets put it all out there and let everyone learn from the exchanges

OB1Shinobi wrote:

rugadd wrote: Discussions on the character of the participants is not helpful in a public forum and should be relegated to private messaging. Honestly, these debates are hard enough to follow for us, the simple minded. Poo flinging(whether they deserve a face full of chips or not) is distasteful, unneeded filler.

i actually disagree with this - observers get the benefit of watching the emotions play out through the responses of the participants

in general, the relative privacy of PM's allows people to hide - youd be surprised how different some people are when the conversation isnt public

having feedback from each other means that we have to deal with the feedback of the angry or petty or silly or ignorant. but it also means we can learn the viewpoints of the thoughtful and mature (all of us are all of these at different moments)

i say lets put it all out there and let everyone learn from the exchanges

I love you Obi 1

*Jedi Hug* ( that is a thing , really it is ! )

ren wrote: As I explained in the thread adding new options to the list is easy, but not replacing the field with a text box without screwing up years of profiles, which are known to be quirky. As there's a plethora of genders and only 3 possible answers for sex, it made perfect sense.

Some people want gender, some people don't. I never envisioned changing "gender:male/female" which only covers a small portion of human population to "sex: male/female/neither", which covers 100% of the human population for such a tiny nothing on a %&*&$$ profile page could trigger such bullying at totjo, which I now think has got to be the most bigoted place I have ever frequented.

You're missing the obvious solution of adding choices to the dropdown of "Gender", which you just proved you could easily do when you changed it to "Sex."

Edan wrote: I'm disappointed my request for the topic to be taken elsewhere (this was just a thread about adding a gender option to the profile) has been ignored.

I'm sorry, Edan. That is my fault. I was attempting to explain to MartaLina why the "Gender" field, specifically, is important, and instead I canned that response for something less than what I was trying to say, and then allowed myself to be sucked into the larger debate that occurred here instead of on the thread I started for it. I apologize and I am sorry.
[hr]

OB1Shinobi wrote:

rugadd wrote: Discussions on the character of the participants is not helpful in a public forum and should be relegated to private messaging. Honestly, these debates are hard enough to follow for us, the simple minded. Poo flinging(whether they deserve a face full of chips or not) is distasteful, unneeded filler.

i actually disagree with this - observers get the benefit of watching the emotions play out through the responses of the participants

in general, the relative privacy of PM's allows people to hide - youd be surprised how different some people are when the conversation isnt public

This is actually one of the reasons I chose the hide tag instead of taking it to PM. I had nothing to say that I wasn't ready to say in front of the entire actual membership of the Temple. Guests might get ther wrong idea, but people who call this their home should know who they're sharing it with, even if that someone is a hotheaded, emotionally-defensive loudmouth like myself.

Very well. Let me expound. I personally have a hard time following discussions when they derail into character attacks(or really, anything that isn't directly related to the subject being debated). For my sake(and those with the same issue), if you are so inclined, please minimize such behavior.

I don't post as often as I used too because I have a hard time separating the wisdom from the noise and forming a worth while opinion. that may contribute.

steamboat28 wrote:

ren wrote: As I explained in the thread adding new options to the list is easy, but not replacing the field with a text box without screwing up years of profiles, which are known to be quirky. As there's a plethora of genders and only 3 possible answers for sex, it made perfect sense.

Some people want gender, some people don't. I never envisioned changing "gender:male/female" which only covers a small portion of human population to "sex: male/female/neither", which covers 100% of the human population for such a tiny nothing on a %&*&$$ profile page could trigger such bullying at totjo, which I now think has got to be the most bigoted place I have ever frequented.

You're missing the obvious solution of adding choices to the dropdown of "Gender", which you just proved you could easily do when you changed it to "Sex."

2 problems were identified:

1: By edan; That there is no other choice than nothing, male, and female. Finding it silly at first, I agreed to create one due to it being easy and in line with totjo's sated goals.
2: By MartaLina; That "gender" is not quite the right word. Martalina, myself, and another member have pointed out, on multiple occasions, that other cultures do not have this concept of "gender" like you guys do, and therefore are forced to comply with your culture by using "gender" instead of the universal "sex". Changing this also is in line with totjo's stated goals.


But then the gender mafia shouted, and loud. Refused to acknowledge the needs of other cultures. You bullied. For something written on a standard user profile on a website.

You didn't even try to live with it for a day.


I don't need to hear more to know what kind of people you guys are.

And may i also point out that the use of the word gender is an inaccurate presentation of what you really want to achieve namely , acknowledgement to be called whatever the heck you want to be called , so how do you want to be adressed ? Lets for instance say that you are a Drama Queen? That is fine is that Drama Queen a He or a She ? People keep thinking that a dropdown menu for the word Gender will cover it all , but it will not , an open space will where we can tell stuff about ourselfes , ow wait , dont we have an about ME section .. Hi i am Marta Lina , one day i am a Drama Queen , tomorrow i am Butch Sunday ...

And now for the piece de resistance for arguments sake , how many of you actually LOOK at someone elses profile , i did and guess what i found , the person i wanted to look at has...restricted acces , the irony loll

i look at the name and the gender suggested buy the avatar

if your name or the picture i see below it indicates a gender, then you are that gender as far as i am concerned

MartaLina wrote: how many of you actually LOOK at someone elses profile , i did and guess what i found , the person i wanted to look at has...restricted acces , the irony loll

Never once. If I want to address someone in such a way (Which is rare) I ask them, or I observe the conversation and watch how others address them or how they address themselves through conversation and interaction. *shrugs*

MartaLina wrote: And now for the piece de resistance for arguments sake , how many of you actually LOOK at someone elses profile , i did and guess what i found , the person i wanted to look at has...restricted acces , the irony loll

I do, whenever anyone pops into chat that I don't recognize, I check their profile for date joined and gender so I know if I how I can greet them and what pronoun to use.

MartaLina wrote: And may i also point out that the use of the word gender is an inaccurate presentation of what you really want to achieve namely , acknowledgement to be called whatever the heck you want to be called , so how do you want to be adressed ? Lets for instance say that you are a Drama Queen? That is fine is that Drama Queen a He or a She ? People keep thinking that a dropdown menu for the word Gender will cover it all , but it will not , an open space will where we can tell stuff about ourselfes , ow wait , dont we have an about ME section .. Hi i am Marta Lina , one day i am a Drama Queen , tomorrow i am Butch Sunday ...

And now for the piece de resistance for arguments sake , how many of you actually LOOK at someone elses profile , i did and guess what i found , the person i wanted to look at has...restricted acces , the irony loll

To be fair, sociologically speaking gender very typically dictates the way we address people. Because gender is a fluid concept and being recognized more and more as non-binary by academics, those pronouns are expanding and becoming far more numerous than any single drop down box should even try to handle. LMAO That said, I recognize that this is also going to vary a bit from culture to culture. Within my own family culture, I have individuals who are very pro binary gender definitions and feel any deviation from said binary status is a mental illness at best, and Satan's scheming at worst. I can only speak to what I know of sociology, anthropology, and psychology. It'd be nice if we had evolved as a society to the point where having a visual display of this sort of thing wasn't necessary; unfortunately we haven't because we're still actively fighting for non-binary gender rights and the terminology that comes with it. Providing it as a fill-in option alleviates the need for an individual to come up with all non-binary terminology without risk of offending those who are cisgendered and makes it more inclusive as a whole.

As for your profile question, I actively look at profiles all the time, particularly with new members. If someone comes into chat I've never spoken with before, rather than assume gender, I usually go to their profile first to see if they've got anything there. That's my first stop. Always. I also know other individuals who actively look at profiles all the time, looking for the same information or like information. One individual looks for information through introduction posts and the profiles to come up with information on how to address the individual, how to respect them, what they like, what they dislike... Things that can prevent miscommunications, unintentional offenses, and make for more interesting conversation and less idle chatter.

Trisskar wrote:

MartaLina wrote: how many of you actually LOOK at someone elses profile , i did and guess what i found , the person i wanted to look at has...restricted acces , the irony loll

Never once. If I want to address someone in such a way (Which is rare) I ask them, or I observe the conversation and watch how others address them or how they address themselves through conversation and interaction. *shrugs*

That is the point i have been trying to make , we all can attack someone for not agreeing , but we should stop attacking people who are trying to change things or clear them up , they be attacking eachother now , so stupid ...

Kit wrote:

MartaLina wrote: And now for the piece de resistance for arguments sake , how many of you actually LOOK at someone elses profile , i did and guess what i found , the person i wanted to look at has...restricted acces , the irony loll

I do, whenever anyone pops into chat that I don't recognize, I check their profile for date joined and gender so I know if I how I can greet them and what pronoun to use.

I do too, as I said on the first page.