Profiles - Gender

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09 Oct 2016 21:05 - 09 Oct 2016 21:05 #260336 by Edan
Replied by Edan on topic Profiles - Gender
This really isn't the thread for this. I just wanted options. Please take discussion of gender versus sex elsewhere.

QUESTION YOUR APATHY
Last edit: 09 Oct 2016 21:05 by Edan.
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09 Oct 2016 23:22 - 09 Oct 2016 23:43 #260341 by steamboat28
Replied by steamboat28 on topic Profiles - Gender
-original post deleted-

I feel like adding more options for a "gender" button would be best. Trying to efficiently cover as many bases as possible without getting super specific, however, might be an issue. I would leave it at a "Gender" selection or dropdown of "male, female, agender, genderfluid, other" at first, and leave additional ones open to suggestion.

Changing it to "sex" would be very problematic for a number of reasons that the Temple shouldn't really screw with at the moment.
Last edit: 09 Oct 2016 23:43 by steamboat28.
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09 Oct 2016 23:46 - 09 Oct 2016 23:53 #260342 by Avalon
Replied by Avalon on topic Profiles - Gender
Edan I get what you're saying. The reason I keep talking about sex vs gender though is because what was the gender option is now the sex option. They mean two entirely different things and serve two entirely different purposes. Which is why I keep saying it needs to be left as gender... And yes, more options should be added.

If gender was changed to sex purely because of ease of editing, then that's wrong. It's (typically speaking) very easy to update drop downs to add more options or change them to text box options all together. But gender should not have been changed to sex. That's not the purpose that box serves.... That box serves to tell us how to address one another. Not what anatomical parts we each have.

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Last edit: 09 Oct 2016 23:53 by Avalon.
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10 Oct 2016 00:59 #260351 by Jestor
Replied by Jestor on topic Profiles - Gender

Edan wrote: This really isn't the thread for this. I just wanted options. Please take discussion of gender versus sex elsewhere.


Im sorry you feel that "this isn't the place for it...

It is....

An idea was brought forth, and its playing out....

People get upset when the "playing out" doesn't go as planned, but, like life, little goes exactly.as planned...

I speak as a person, not a knight, or Councillor, ;)...

I.like gender....

Gender, is a personal identifier... and I think it should say "gender" or simply remove the option,period... :)

On walk-about...

Sith ain't Evil...
Jedi ain't Saints....


"Bake or bake not. There is no fry" - Sean Ching


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Master: Jasper_Ward
Current Apprentices: Viskhard, DanWerts, Llama Su, Trisskar
Former Apprentices: Knight Learn_To_Know, Knight Edan, Knight Brenna, Knight Madhatter
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10 Oct 2016 02:00 #260358 by Firewolf
Replied by Firewolf on topic Profiles - Gender
just change it to Gender and be done with it

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10 Oct 2016 02:11 - 10 Oct 2016 02:11 #260360 by Avalon
Replied by Avalon on topic Profiles - Gender

Firewolf wrote: just change it to Gender and be done with it


You mean change it back to the way it was this morning before someone changed it. . . ;)

This thread wasn't ever calling for changing gender to sex or sex to gender.

Rather Edan had pointed out that this particular profile entry only had two options, male or female, and considering that gender is more complex than black or white, she was asking if it would be possible to either add additional options, or as some even suggested, changing it from a drop-down menu to a text box fill in.

If you ask me, the easiest (and fastest/most efficient/best) option would be to label it as gender and make it a fill in text box, that way each person can put whatever works best for them and no single person is left trying to identify all the possible gender options out there.

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Last edit: 10 Oct 2016 02:11 by Avalon.
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10 Oct 2016 02:59 - 10 Oct 2016 03:00 #260365 by Rosalyn J
Replied by Rosalyn J on topic Profiles - Gender
Sex=frequently?

Also, I still haven't identified as either male or female on the forums, even before this nonsense. Personally, I'm not bothered either way, but I know there may be some who are. I would go with a fill in the blank option if that will make people happy.

Also, a lot of people refer to me as sir, especially if I use my other name on forums. It hasn't happened here because I think my name is a pretty good identifier. Some people call ma Master (which I am a little concerned about unless they are my apprentice) but I think the term "Jedi" can work just as well

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Last edit: 10 Oct 2016 03:00 by Rosalyn J.
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10 Oct 2016 03:23 #260366 by Breeze el Tierno
Replied by Breeze el Tierno on topic Profiles - Gender

Jestor wrote: An idea was brought forth, and its playing out....


It's not entirely clear to me what interest is served by this change. To leave it as it was seemed harmless. If there was a danger, I'm interesting understanding it.

To change it, to brush off issues of identity and respect, does strike me as overtly harmful. I am a male. I use traditional male pronouns, so perhaps I am not directly affected by this. That said, the world is much grander than my specific set of concerns. It would be terribly arrogant of me to behave as if only my concerns were valid. Blazingly pretentious if I were to hide that all behind Jedi objectivity, but whatever.
  1. If an idea was put forth, what was that idea? What was the compelling reason for it?
  2. If that idea was acted on without Council approval (which has been suggested, though not substantiated), that strikes me as a problem all its own. Was this the case?
I would appreciate someone from the council addressing these two questions. Thank you.
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10 Oct 2016 03:51 #260367 by ren
Replied by ren on topic Profiles - Gender

Avalonslight wrote:

Does it and should it though?

Yes it does and yes it should, if purely out of respect for that individual, but I'm not going to get into that with you.

(and also my last bit of input here before the thread derails further..)


No, it shouldn't. read the doctrine.


There is nothing in the doctrine which dictates that biological sex is more important than gender identification.

I'm seeing now why there are some individuals on the site who feel like who they are as an individual is attacked or ignored... Excuse me for trying to explain it and build inclusiveness (cause it's not like it wasn't pointed out that that's a central foundation of the site anyway...)


Way to spin things around.

The doctrine specifically says that society should not discriminate on the basis of gender. behaving differently towards people on the basis of their gender is discrimination.

I'm seeing now why there are some individuals on the site who feel like who they are as an individual is attacked or ignored... Excuse me for trying to explain it and build inclusiveness (cause it's not like it wasn't pointed out that that's a central foundation of the site anyway...)


Those individuals should learn to control their silly feelings, because this is a jedi community, not an emo community.

If those individuals do not satisfactorily feel included when offered an option of sex:male,female,neither, which covers 100% of all known life forms, matter and energy in the universe, I doubt they will ever satisfactorily feel included anywhere in our universe, and especially not within totjo.

It's (typically speaking) very easy to update drop downs to add more options or change them to text box options all together.

In our case we have to go from a 2 bit integer to a string, so it's a pain.

Gender is silly. To many non-english speakers it's a useless attribute all nouns have, not something that gets associated with people. Got rid of it as soon as I realised I could.

simply remove the option,period...


If "sex" is not seen as useful (as someone else pointed out, we can just figure it out in a conversation), I'm all for removing it.

Convictions are more dangerous foes of truth than lies.

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10 Oct 2016 04:02 #260368 by KristiaRen
Replied by KristiaRen on topic Profiles - Gender
I'm a Two-Spirit to use the Native American Indian term being that I have equal amounts of female and male energies within me.
Yes, I was born a female. Yes, I use female terms (she, her, hers). No, I'm not bothered if someone talks to me and uses the male pronouns (he, him, his) or refers about me using such.

The above is an example of three different bases. The first is concerned with what parts I'm born with. The second is what I think of myself as. The third is what I'm okay with others thinking of me as.

I include my own thoughts below.

In regards to the issue of gender: Some people may feel uncomfortable when talked to or about as one when they feel like they are the other, even though they were born as the first. Others identify as both and it might not matter. Still more consider themselves to be no gender at all and are uncomfortable or not in regards to terms of address and may or may not prefer they, them, their, theirs.

It is no easy matter. Whatever one thinks of this life, one experiences it in myriad ways. Not just through sight, touch, taste, sound, smell. There is [to me] to be two types of feeling. That which is emotive, and that which is physical. Again, it seems to me, to be a matter of balance between the different levels of sensory modalities (temperature, balance, pain, internal, hunger, time, and more) different levels of what one's function is (family, social, professional/scholastically, etc) and different "worlds'--though that particular term might not be the correct one for what I mean here (spiritual, physical, emotional, intellectual, etc, etc, etc. (It could go on forever)).

If two people were to go through the same situation, they would have different experiences and would react differently.
If one person were to go through the same situation with different outlooks on life or thought patterns, they would have different experiences and would react differently.

Blessed Keep, and May the Force Be With You.

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