New Degree System of Jediism?

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31 Jan 2016 22:51 #225604 by steamboat28
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I feel that the A.Div at Knight is right where it should be. IP coursework is not degree-worthy on its own, given the small scope and short term of the study. While it requires much in the way of introspection, it requires very little in the way of actual education.

Furthermore, the D.Div is (at least in the US) widely regarded as an honorary degree. While I'd like to see TOTJO revamp their degree scheme to include it in the actual coursework.

Wikipedia wrote: In the United States, Doctor of Divinity is traditionally an honorary degree granted by a church-related college, seminary, or university to recognize the recipient's ministry-orientated accomplishments.

Learn.org wrote: In the United States, a Doctor of Divinity (D.Div.) is an honorary degree and cannot be earned through an academic program. Some colleges allow you to apply for the honorary degree if you prove you have a bachelor's degree and enough experience in ministry. These degrees are often conferred to selected recipients annually.


TOTJO is a corporation based in the US, and is therefore subject to US law and customs moreso than in any other locality.
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31 Jan 2016 22:54 #225606 by Akkarin
Replied by Akkarin on topic New Degree System of Jediism?

Avalonslight wrote: We know the A.Div equates to earning your knighthood.


No.

Avalonslight wrote: To keep track of the necessary developmental steps and studies to say "yes, this person has done the right level of studying to reach the senior knight rank"?


Yes. This is what we use it for now.

This is how it applies to the Apprenticeship, the A.Div is a requirement of Knighthood, but if your Training Master doesn't think you are ready for Knighthood, or the Council doesn't think you are ready, it doesn't matter how many points you have for your degree, you will not be Knighted.

Apprenticeship is about personal development. The A.Div is about ensuring that people do at least a similar amount of work in total, because before this was implemented (when Knights were given full reign) Apprentices could have to do wildly different amounts of work.

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31 Jan 2016 22:57 - 31 Jan 2016 22:59 #225607 by Avalon

Akkarin wrote: This is how it applies to the Apprenticeship, the A.Div is a requirement of Knighthood...


This is what I meant. Sorry if I didn't state that clearly, but that is what I meant by "it is the equivalent of". Without the A.Div, you can't have the knighthood. That much I knew pretty clearly.

I was more interested in this part of what I said:

The B.Div is part of what is necessary to reach senior knight, along with the so many apprentices (unless that's an outdated thing too). So is that right there not the purpose of it in the first place? To keep track of the necessary developmental steps and studies to say "yes, this person has done the right level of studying to reach the senior knight rank"? *shrugs* Seems like the point to me.


Since people are questioning the purpose of the degree scheme, I was trying to figure out if that was in fact it.

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Last edit: 31 Jan 2016 22:59 by Avalon.
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31 Jan 2016 22:58 - 31 Jan 2016 23:16 #225608 by steamboat28

Connor L. wrote: I am still waiting for somebody to come along and tell me what they think the PURPOSE of the Degree Scheme is.


External legitimacy and record-keeping.

The Degree Scheme (and it IS a degree scheme, regardless of what my "betters" above have said) mirrors the advancement of a collegiate-level student in a standard school seeking a degree in the subject matter of Divinity, which is slightly less research-intensive than the more-static academic field of Theology.

A.Div = Associate of Divinity = The equivalent of a "two-year" degree. In general, the Associate degree in the States is something that can be earned on the way to a more traditional (and useful) Bachelors/four-year degree, or if one only needs a minimum of post-secondary training to be certified or licensed for a task. In TOTJO, Knighthood fits neatly here because it is the minimum amount of required coursework to be recognized by the first major rank.

B.Div = Bachelor of Divinity = The equivalent of a "four-year" degree. Generally speaking, when folks go to college for a "degree", as V said, they go for a Bachelor's degree, spending four years studying their subject matter and gaining more knowledge on the topic than a mere certificate or license would cover. In TOTJO, the B.Div indicates a dedicated level of learning beyond the A.Div, and showcases the student's drive to understand our teachings better.

And I personally and wholeheartedly believe we should reincorporate the M.Div and the D.Div into course-level or measurable activities, as well. Especially the D.Div, which I mentioned earlier is typically only an honorary title and not one that showcases work on a topic.

The reason we have this degree scheme is the same reason that other churches, seminaries, colleges, and spiritual organizations do: because the Church (generic usage here) can award degrees to denote a measure of study, and these degrees mean more (i.e., can be more easily interpreted) to those outside our structure than our internal ranks of Knight, Sr. Knight, Master, etc.
Last edit: 31 Jan 2016 23:16 by steamboat28.
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31 Jan 2016 23:07 - 31 Jan 2016 23:08 #225612 by Edan
Replied by Edan on topic New Degree System of Jediism?
Our "degree scheme" has none; it can be used nowhere else.

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Last edit: 31 Jan 2016 23:08 by Edan.
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31 Jan 2016 23:13 #225614 by steamboat28

Edan wrote: Our "degree scheme" has none; it can be used nowhere else.


And neither can the equivalent degrees from any other non-accredited religious institution. We're not a college, Edan. We're a church. But these degrees are typical and traditional among religious groups, spiritual groups, seminaries, and certain schools.
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31 Jan 2016 23:37 #225618 by Avalon

If so, then what if the Temple actually conferred Associates and Bachelors degrees as it has the formal authority to do, complete with a hard-copy diploma for purchase if someone was so inclined?

steamboat28 wrote: And neither can the equivalent degrees from any other non-accredited religious institution. We're not a college, Edan. We're a church. But these degrees are typical and traditional among religious groups, spiritual groups, seminaries, and certain schools.


Steam points out something very important. No matter how the degree scheme is organized, even if TotJO does send out "certificates" or what have you related to those degree schemes, these degrees won't be recognized by a traditional, accredited university, in any country. They'll purely be for internal use, though can be recognized externally by other religious organizations that structure their religious training in similar fashions as a form of legitimacy.

That said, if my understanding that posted earlier is accurate, that is that the degree scheme is meant to universalize how much work each individual has put into studying towards the next rank, be it knight or senior knight, then the way it's set up right now serves that purpose just fine, in my opinion.

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31 Jan 2016 23:42 - 31 Jan 2016 23:42 #225620 by Connor L.
Replied by Connor L. on topic New Degree System of Jediism?
Steam, I agree. Thanks for a good, straight-forward answer that I can work with. Unfortunately, the coursework post Apprenticeship... doesn't really look anything like a Bachelors or Masters degree. It's more an organic hodge-podge of random lessons thrown together.

So, the next step would be to say... what are the areas of study we would want somebody with a B Div. to have under their belt? And, so on with the M Div. and D Div.

I think the A Div. is perfect the way it is. It should take a year to two years to complete it.

But, the self-study B Div. is... well. Messy.
Last edit: 31 Jan 2016 23:42 by Connor L..

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31 Jan 2016 23:46 #225621 by Snowy Aftermath
Replied by Snowy Aftermath on topic New Degree System of Jediism?

V-Tog wrote: D.Div has more or less been scrapped, and M.Div has been suspended for a long time now ;)


*curls up in a ball and cries, cradling her shattered dreams*

:(

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31 Jan 2016 23:46 #225623 by Connor L.
Replied by Connor L. on topic New Degree System of Jediism?

Snowy Aftermath wrote:

V-Tog wrote: D.Div has more or less been scrapped, and M.Div has been suspended for a long time now ;)


*curls up in a ball and cries, cradling her shattered dreams*

:(


Be the change, Snowy. lol

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