Taking Part in the Process...As an experienced Jedi

Seems to me that the best place to start is always at the beginning

I rose to 3rd degree blackbelt and then started in a slightly different style, it was refreshing to wear the white belt again Sometimes being at the beginning can give your fresh eyes.

The past is the past.

What would you say to those that know nothing of the Jedi path in the last 2 decades?

They will only judge you as you are presently, and if all that will ever amount to is tales of the past, well, I myself have been on this path quite a long time now, and even in my case, I would rather be judged by my present actions, then past writings.

If only because one time, someone quoted a lecture I had written ten years ago in regards to something I had said presently, calling me a hypocrite, etc. To which I simply replied that my path is ever changing and evolving, and so, who I am today is not who I was ten years ago, nor should I be measured by that, nor would I want to be. Are you not be different from your past writings, thoughts, and actions? If not, then that in itself needs to be addressed.

I always question people who can only speak in the past tense of actions, or experiences. By and large it speaks of stagnation, as if your have no new stories, or experiences, present ones, or are not making any, then you are not growing.

You are proud of your past obviously. Still, I see no reason why you feel it should afford you any leeway on present actions and experiences. Some, may not even go back half of half that far, and for many of us that do...Well, speaking for myself, I simply dont care.

You are attached to the past in what seems to be an unhealthy way.

I have no interest in what someone once did.

I have no interest in what someone will do.

I am interested in what they are doing NOW.

Thats worth talking about.

Khaos wrote: The past is the past.
They will only judge you as you are presently

Though I could agree with that opinion, I can not agree with your opinion. :blush: I have to mention that the Temple of the Jedi Order is bound to rules, and how good a persons intentions may be, I think that it would not change the policy. Judgement is not only based on how we are, but also on where we stand on the ladder. How unfair this may sound to some.. Please correct me if I tell rubbish, it will be appreciated by me.

Aqua wrote:

Khaos wrote: The past is the past.
They will only judge you as you are presently

Though I could agree with that opinion, I can not agree with your opinion. :blush: I have to mention that the Temple of the Jedi Order is bound to rules, and how good a persons intentions may be, I think that it would not change the policy. Judgement is not only based on how we are, but also on where we stand on the ladder. How unfair this may sound to some.. Please correct me if I tell rubbish, it will be appreciated by me.

You have completely lost me on what your trying to convey.

Intentions are all well and good, but the road to hell is paved with them so im told.

Actions will always speak louder than words, and results will always say more than intentions about an individual.

I think he means influence here is directly correlated to what rank you have.

that would depend on what one means by "influence"

if you want the title or the "authority" then do the work that is set out for earning it

if you want to be some kind of positive influence then do your best to learn from others and to participate in a way that gets people to think

Letting someone skip ahead in rank because of what they have said in the past (when they refused to take the full commitment) sets a dangerous precedent, in my opinion. Will someone who has written books of theory in the past be allowed to skip ahead to Bishop or to the Council based on the same standards? Will we let them train newbies? Many people have had the same ideas about life for as long as the internet has been around. Do they all get bumped to the top? How frightening to suddenly have strangers coming in and taking over an organization where you've pledged your loyalty and trust for years!

There is something to be said for the length of the journey, for proving your sincerity over time. I don't think past writings should be considered at all.

...said the mighty novice, whose opinion is worth as much as what is circling the bottom of her coffee cup xD

Not being a part of the community does not mean that someone has not been following "the path"...

It means that: 1. We brought no prejudice toward other members or sites out there... 2. It means to us, our ideas are new and this is exciting... 3. And, the lack of "acceptance of what IS" and the "intolerance toward others" is flabbergasting if you think about it... lol...

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A common thing I see "old guard" members say, is "ugh, I've done all this!"

One of the first things I discuss with apprentices, is how we have changed throughout our lives...

How a book/movie/subject will mean different things to you at different points in your life...

The movie Madagascar was great, as an adult, there are some adult jokes we missed as kids...

I see things in movies I miss, (such as the Twilight line in the other thread), and catch things I've missed, all the time....

Who doesn't like learning something new? Lol...

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I agree with Khaos...

"Who are you today?"

Our definition of Jedi here doesn't include opportunities for learning being a "waste of time".

Streen - I for one would love to read and learn from what you would write in your IP and Apprenticeship journals I don't know what your time constraints are like but I can't imagine the IP would take you that long . . . and I'm sure you'd have a lot of flexibility in an Apprenticeship to pursue studies that would be entirely consistent with where you are at now. I apologise for my short-sightedness but I can't see what you'd have to lose!

Khaos wrote:
I have no interest in what someone once did.

Except for all the historical, philisophical, religious, and educated leaders of our past as far back as back can go for some that we study not only in the Jedi practices but in every day life and regular schooling practices. History, is part of the human culture.

I see alot of bias in this statment (not just you Khaos but in general) So many here at TOTJO saying "We don't care about what happened" and yet most of the IP is made up of old people from what "Once Was." And most of the Doctrines comes from "The Old Guard" days with very little revision or updating to apparent "Present Changes"

If all we cared about was what we did right now....we would have no hero's and guidelines to follow.

I believe it is important and respectful to honor those that have spent time, years, dedication and effort to the path. People like Streen have indeed earned at least that.

Does that mean he or even I get a free pass? No. Nor would I expect it.

But there IS something to be said about the past as there is about the future and especially the present.

One more thing. In my eexperience of being a former master here then leaving for a long time and coming back. I did not get to just pick up were i left off. I asked for a rank demotion and had to prove myself again by taking on responsibility , catching up and really getting to know people.

So perhaps you could do the same

Kitsu Tails wrote:

Khaos wrote:
I have no interest in what someone once did.

Except for all the historical, philisophical, religious, and educated leaders of our past as far back as back can go for some that we study not only in the Jedi practices but in every day life and regular schooling practices. History, is part of the human culture.

I see alot of bias in this statment (not just you Khaos but in general) So many here at TOTJO saying "We don't care about what happened" and yet most of the IP is made up of old people from what "Once Was." And most of the Doctrines comes from "The Old Guard" days with very little revision or updating to apparent "Present Changes"

If all we cared about was what we did right now....we would have no hero's and guidelines to follow.

I believe it is important and respectful to honor those that have spent time, years, dedication and effort to the path. People like Streen have indeed earned at least that.

Does that mean he or even I get a free pass? No. Nor would I expect it.

But there IS something to be said about the past as there is about the future and especially the present.

im kind of a jerk and even when i choose to belive in the most benevolent interpretation of an event that i can concieve, that doesnt stop my mind from calculating the less pleasant potentials

what the cynical and judgemental part of my mind interprets from this OP is "i want to be called master and i want to take apprentices"

but last month it was "totjo is going to go the way of pedophilia" under the guise of "im just the messenger"

how much time does ittake for someone to learn tact?
lol i suppose i will let you know as soon as i learn some!

i agree with Khaos's point about judging based on the NOW - our past is worth only so much as the lessons we learned from it

OB1Shinobi wrote: i agree with Khaos's point about judging based on the NOW - our past is worth only so much as the lessons we learned from it

Most certianly. Our history and past is no excuse to behave poorly in the present. In fact, it is even more reason/responsibility to behave according to our beliefs and teachings. It's a heavier weight to bare....but not one that should be discarded or un-cared for.

I am certainly not saying the past is reason for free passes. I am simply saying we shouldn't carelessly say it dosn't matter. Because it does. It's apart of our very structure.

Kitsu Tails wrote:

Khaos wrote:
I have no interest in what someone once did.

Except for all the historical, philisophical, religious, and educated leaders of our past as far back as back can go for some that we study not only in the Jedi practices but in every day life and regular schooling practices. History, is part of the human culture.

I see alot of bias in this statment (not just you Khaos but in general) So many here at TOTJO saying "We don't care about what happened" and yet most of the IP is made up of old people from what "Once Was." And most of the Doctrines comes from "The Old Guard" days with very little revision or updating to apparent "Present Changes"

If all we cared about was what we did right now....we would have no hero's and guidelines to follow.

I believe it is important and respectful to honor those that have spent time, years, dedication and effort to the path. People like Streen have indeed earned at least that.

Does that mean he or even I get a free pass? No. Nor would I expect it.

But there IS something to be said about the past as there is about the future and especially the present.

If Eckhart Tolle were to come to this temple and ask to be a Knight right away, even he would be asked to start from the beginning, if it were up to me. This does not mean that his past reputation is useless and irrelevant. We all have value in learning about our own past, and learning from what other have said and done in their past too, as it does have value, however that value does not take priority over the value of what they say and do in the present, as that is the point in time we interact in.

The only thing that matters is now. But, everything in the past certainly helps add up to now. I agree with Pro. I would actually love to watch Tolle go through the IP. haha. Would be amazing!

I view it not like a test, but an opportunity to reveal something about yourself to others (and yourself) by reflecting on particular topics. We have Knights sometimes choose re-do the IP for fun/curiosity to see how their perspectives on the material has changed. The process of using the same material just gives us each an opportunity to have a shared experience. I learn new things every day so how I perceive things is always changing. As such I tend to view the things like ranks as administrative titles (for functional reasons to denote duty or progress through particular programs etc), not awards of accomplishment or some measure of 'Jedi-ness'.

Text environment, lol..

It sucks!

Yes, I don't mean to totally discount the past either, but, sometimes it appears to be waved like a flag... lol..

About as much as it gets discounted... :lol:

It only becomes an issue in posts like these... lol... (anytime the "been here since" gets launched, lol)

We don't walk up to people in our physical world, like "hey, I'm new to this clown school, but, I've got X years in it..."

We walk up, say hi, and be ourselves... lol...

Jestor wrote: We don't walk up to people in our physical world, like "hey, I'm new to this clown school, but, I've got X years in it..."[/color]

I could argue that but I've already said my point. Just because so and so does such and such....dosn't give us the right to respond with "It dosn't matter." (Because A: It is such a negative response and B: It does matter - to a point obviously.) Just makes us finger pointers at that point

But now we are way off topic!! haha sorry for my part in that.

As I said Streen. Participate. The rest is just bells and whistles.

Any point can be argued... lol...

But you are right... I'm sorry for any part I played inthe derail too... :lol:...

Old discussions (damn history! :whistle:)...

Streen, I'll tell you like I tell anyone who asks me about joining...

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Please feel free to join, or don't...

I've learned from members and guests alike...

I told you via PM, I like you, Streen, and just contributing here is a great thing...

Everyone is welcome, and their contributions appreciated...