The Conscious related to the System

  • Subject72
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03 Jan 2016 01:26 #218348 by Subject72
The Conscious related to the System was created by Subject72
I'm a week new here and I have been listening and listening to the first lesson in the Initiate program. The Hero's Journey, Joseph talks about if the Conscious takes control of the body and the humanity of the person that individual become apart of the system. I'm not sure what he means by this as well as his bit on the intellectual turning to the system as well. I don't understand how being logical can turn into something bad. I'm just reaching out for another viewpoint and some insight. Thanks for your time. :)

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  • Jace Cortana
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03 Jan 2016 01:38 #218352 by Jace Cortana
Replied by Jace Cortana on topic The Conscious related to the System
The way I understood it is that our consciousness is determined not by use, but by the world we live in. Likewise, our idea of logic can be construed to meet the needs and desires of the society, whether or not that society may be just or corrupt. Therefore, if we allow the consciousness to consume all of us, our body and mind, then we risk becoming tools of the system (ie., the state, a religion, an organization, etc...). However, if we make strives to allow our subconscious come to surface, the same subconscious in which we are all connected through the Force (if you believe so), then we can see through the constructs of the system and live our lives according to good, even if it goes against the system.

I hope this helps some!

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  • Alan
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04 Jan 2016 14:58 #218789 by Alan
Replied by Alan on topic The Conscious related to the System
For Campbell, the urges and desires of the body are distinct from but have a very powerful impact on our thinking as when he says that consciousness is "a secondary organ" (at 25:32). The human being is both a natural body with its urges and a consciousness that is compelled by society (system) to control the body for the good of the system (family and society). For Campbell, the desires of the body cannot always be controlled by thinking mind (which is often synonymous with society) and this struggle between the body's desires and what the socially conditioned consciousness requires is the hero's journey. Campbell is influenced by the philosophy of Freud, but not all myths can easily (authentically or consistently) be interpreted by Freud's view of the relationship of the body to society.

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  • Kyrin Wyldstar
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04 Jan 2016 15:11 - 04 Jan 2016 15:12 #218792 by Kyrin Wyldstar
Replied by Kyrin Wyldstar on topic The Conscious related to the System
Thanks Alan.

That was a pretty good explanation that has helped clarify a few things for me. I was also meditating on this concept and for me with my pagan background I was trying to equate this concept to the concept of the 3 souls. Those three aspects of self being the subconscious, the conscious and the higher selves. I'm not sure if your familiar with the concept but if so do you see any sort of correlation? I would love to hear your thoughts on the matter!
Last edit: 04 Jan 2016 15:12 by Kyrin Wyldstar.

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04 Jan 2016 15:54 #218800 by Alan
Replied by Alan on topic The Conscious related to the System
I have only a general knowledge of the neo-pagan symbolism of the three souls. These do not have to be three distinct entities or realities but are a way to discuss the unity of the person as she or he relates their body (subconscious) and self (conscious) to their spirituality (higher self). But in relation to Campbell it might look like this.

The subconscious could be synonymous with the desires of the body. Our consciousness cannot stop our natural desires, they are involuntary, we can only channel their manifestation as we act in the society. Some forms of pantheism or animism emphasize the unity of body and mind where the mind is embodied, that is, thinking is of the whole body. The forms of neo-paganism I'm familiar with posit some kind of spiritual aspect to our being; and this spirit is shared with all things. Or, to put it another way, everything participates in a common sacredness. In regards to my Jediism, sacredness in not distinct from or opposed to the material. Here, we might discuss the relationship of this sacred aspect of the cosmos with the Force which participates in all three souls.

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  • Kyrin Wyldstar
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04 Jan 2016 17:08 #218834 by Kyrin Wyldstar
Replied by Kyrin Wyldstar on topic The Conscious related to the System
Thanks for the explanation Alan!

I know this can go down the rabbit hole real fast but just at a high level this is one area I have struggled with in the past; these concepts of dualism or not. I have found myself stuck either in the body or the mind and so focused on that particular aspect at any one time that the other is ignored. My wife and I have had extensive discussions on this subject and she speaks of things in a very similar manner to you.

I’m slowly coming to understand the deeper meaning of these concepts and I agree with you that these components of our selves are not necessarily separate or distinct. Rather they are elements of an array that is our being. They are all completely interdependent and each one functions because it is a part of the whole. The key is to not underutilize one aspect of this assembly or the “machine” does not function optimally.

To put it simply, we should "be" our spirituality. It should shine through in every aspect of our lives no matter how mundane. So to should our corporeal wants and needs be met but in a stable and functional way. One should never dominate the other. Balance is what we should strive for, to carry aspects of both with us at all times and apply them equally to everything we do.

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