Meeting of the Clergy 13 May 2017 18:00 UTC

Rosalyn J wrote:

Meeting of the Clergy
May 13, 2017 @ 18:00 UTC

Roll Call

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[5/13/2017 11:22:51 AM] Rosalyn Johnson: We will begin with Roll
[5/13/2017 11:22:59 AM] Alexandre Orion: présent
[5/13/2017 11:23:05 AM] Carlos Mar: Here
[5/13/2017 11:23:05 AM] Rosalyn Johnson: Rosalyn J
[5/13/2017 11:23:06 AM] Rick (Atticus) Laws: Atticus
[5/13/2017 11:23:08 AM] Peter Kis: here
[5/13/2017 11:23:09 AM] Bart: Present
[5/13/2017 11:23:23 AM] Proteus: present

Introduction and Agenda

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[5/13/2017 11:24:14 AM] Rosalyn Johnson: ok great. We'll do good work today
[5/13/2017 11:24:34 AM] Rosalyn Johnson: I would like to say that we will probably be taking any official votes to the forum
[5/13/2017 11:24:58 AM] Rosalyn Johnson: there were quite a few clergy who sent their apologies and arent able to be here today
[5/13/2017 11:25:10 AM] Rosalyn Johnson: but we can work out the finer details here
[5/13/2017 11:25:17 AM] Rosalyn Johnson: and present something
[5/13/2017 11:25:32 AM] Rosalyn Johnson: Our agenda is as follows:
[5/13/2017 11:25:39 AM] Rosalyn Johnson: Alex's announcement
[5/13/2017 11:26:04 AM] Rosalyn Johnson: The Mission and Objectives of the Clergy
[5/13/2017 11:26:11 AM] Rosalyn Johnson: Alright

Alexandre’s Announcement

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[5/13/2017 11:26:19 AM] Rosalyn Johnson: Alexandre, you have the word
[5/13/2017 11:26:27 AM] Alexandre Orion: Thank you, Ros
[5/13/2017 11:26:29 AM] Alexandre Orion:
[5/13/2017 11:27:28 AM] Alexandre Orion: This is a primary statement within the Clergy ; there will be an official announcement made later (in a couple of days) by the Secretary to the Council for the rest of the Temple ....
[5/13/2017 11:28:33 AM] Alexandre Orion: As of 11h44 UTC yesterday morning, Rosalyn Johnson has been unanimously voted Pastor-Elect of the TotJO
[5/13/2017 11:29:33 AM] Alexandre Orion: At an upcoming ceremony, she shall be ordained Bishop in order to take up the Office of Pastor to which she is now confirmed
[5/13/2017 11:30:22 AM] Alexandre Orion: As his final act as Pastor of the Order, Cabur Senaar will conduct the ordination, at which time the transfer of Office shall be official
[5/13/2017 11:30:59 AM] Alexandre Orion: Thus, please join me in congratulating the new Pastor-Elect of the TotJO : Rosalyn
[5/13/2017 11:31:20 AM] Rick (Atticus) Laws: (champagne) Congratulations, Ros.
[5/13/2017 11:31:26 AM] Peter Kis: congratulations Rosalyn, that's truly awesome!!!
[5/13/2017 11:31:33 AM] Carlos Mar: Here here !!
[5/13/2017 11:31:53 AM] Bart: Congratulations, thankful to have you around! (holidayspirit) (party)
[5/13/2017 11:33:09 AM] Alexandre Orion: Thank you for your commitment, Ros-lass ...
[5/13/2017 11:33:26 AM] Rosalyn Johnson: ah thanks
[5/13/2017 11:33:32 AM] Rosalyn Johnson: I shall do my best
[5/13/2017 11:34:20 AM] Rosalyn Johnson: Anything else, Alex?
[5/13/2017 11:34:54 AM] Alexandre Orion: I believe I've finished ...
[5/13/2017 11:35:10 AM] Alexandre Orion: ... unless you want me to tell them about the sacrifice ?
[5/13/2017 11:35:22 AM] Alexandre Orion: I was going to leave that as a surprise
[5/13/2017 11:35:27 AM] Alexandre Orion:
[5/13/2017 11:35:36 AM] Proteus: congratulations Ros!
[5/13/2017 11:35:46 AM] Rosalyn Johnson: I'm also surprised
[5/13/2017 11:35:51 AM] Rick (Atticus) Laws: Sacrifices, again?
[5/13/2017 11:35:56 AM] Alexandre Orion:
[5/13/2017 11:36:05 AM] Peter Kis: we have lambs outside. Just saying.
[5/13/2017 11:37:02 AM] Alexandre Orion: as it were, when we were talking about it in Council, I said that the general announcement could wait 'til Adder was back to make it
[5/13/2017 11:37:44 AM] Alexandre Orion: then we could just say that she is pastor-elect until we can get her ordained -- or sacrificed, whichever
[5/13/2017 11:38:11 AM] Rosalyn Johnson: I want the one with the least pain
[5/13/2017 11:38:32 AM] Alexandre Orion: ah ... sacrifice it is then !
[5/13/2017 11:38:41 AM] Rosalyn Johnson: right

Mission and Objectives

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[5/13/2017 11:38:47 AM] Rosalyn Johnson: Well
[5/13/2017 11:38:57 AM] Alexandre Orion: anyway ... let's get on with the rest of the agenda
[5/13/2017 11:38:58 AM] Rosalyn Johnson: Let us get to the meat of the meeting
[5/13/2017 11:39:38 AM] Rosalyn Johnson: Two hours ago I sent a link to this room with all the replies from the missions and objectives thread
[5/13/2017 11:39:53 AM] Rosalyn Johnson: and I want to spend the rest of the meeting ironing that out
[5/13/2017 11:40:01 AM] Rosalyn Johnson: Did anyone see any common themes?
[5/13/2017 11:40:18 AM] Proteus: "spiritual wellbeing"
[5/13/2017 11:40:33 AM] Proteus: (oh sorry)
[5/13/2017 11:40:39 AM] Alexandre Orion:
[5/13/2017 11:40:40 AM] Bart: [Saturday, May 13, 2017 9:30 AM] Bart:

Codex

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<<< I have seen subjects like role of ranks, council and clergy, seminary, mission, basic structure. but well.. (mm) Most posts are based on the first post/request of Kyber. (angel) If I where to link a theme to the repies I would think about future road, structure development, and community work aiming to the guests and members of the Temple and outside the temple? Not sure if that would help.. but that are the things I have noticed. :^)
[5/13/2017 11:41:27 AM] Bart: road, development, community work
[5/13/2017 11:42:13 AM] Bart: ***

[5/13/2017 11:42:25 AM] Carlos Mar: Common themes ?
[5/13/2017 11:42:35 AM] Rosalyn Johnson: right
[5/13/2017 11:42:50 AM] Rosalyn Johnson: what did each poster say that is common among them?
[5/13/2017 11:43:03 AM] Carlos Mar: I see
Carlos

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[5/13/2017 11:43:57 AM] Rosalyn Johnson: Carlos has the word
[5/13/2017 11:44:18 AM] Carlos Mar: Our goal as a collective is to serve correct ?
[5/13/2017 11:45:45 AM] Carlos Mar: Constant re adjusting and constant questioning others gives us very little action in practice
[5/13/2017 11:46:29 AM] Carlos Mar: Maybe ... We focus on the serve rather that the "what should every one else be doing"
[5/13/2017 11:46:45 AM] Carlos Mar: ***
[5/13/2017 11:47:05 AM] Rosalyn Johnson: I'm not quite sure what you are getting at Carlos
[5/13/2017 11:47:16 AM] Rosalyn Johnson: Do you mean on an individual level?
[5/13/2017 11:47:32 AM] Carlos Mar: Yes
[5/13/2017 11:47:56 AM] Carlos Mar: Self paced ...
[5/13/2017 11:49:28 AM] Carlos Mar: The whole ahould not be at the mercy of levels... but commitment , actual action not opinion
[5/13/2017 11:49:50 AM] Rosalyn Johnson: mercy of levels?
[5/13/2017 11:50:08 AM] Carlos Mar: Some people are in difrent levels in their life
[5/13/2017 11:50:16 AM] Carlos Mar: We are all on difrent levels
[5/13/2017 11:50:25 AM] Carlos Mar: Rather than those levels keep us ...
[5/13/2017 11:50:30 AM] Carlos Mar: Let's just do it
[5/13/2017 11:51:05 AM] Carlos Mar: Let's give our clergy options
[5/13/2017 11:51:20 AM] Carlos Mar: ...
[5/13/2017 11:51:23 AM] Rosalyn Johnson: absolutely
[5/13/2017 11:51:42 AM] Rosalyn Johnson: Is there anyone else that would like to address the topic?
[5/13/2017 11:51:48 AM] Carlos Mar: Thanks ros
[5/13/2017 11:51:50 AM] Rosalyn Johnson: thank you carlos
[5/13/2017 11:53:06 AM] Bart: What kind of options do you mean Carlos?
[5/13/2017 11:53:07 AM] Bart: ***
[5/13/2017 11:53:09 AM] Proteus: I'm sorry, could the question here be clarified?
[5/13/2017 11:53:28 AM] Carlos Mar: Action to serve
[5/13/2017 11:53:36 AM] Carlos Mar: Things to do
[5/13/2017 11:53:50 AM] Carlos Mar: Serve in action options
[5/13/2017 11:54:04 AM] Carlos Mar: No more what ifs ... Let's start doing
[5/13/2017 11:54:13 AM] Carlos Mar: ***
[5/13/2017 11:54:14 AM] Rosalyn Johnson: In other words: projects or roles?
[5/13/2017 11:54:15 AM] Proteus: so, regarding practical applications of clergy then?
[5/13/2017 11:54:24 AM] Carlos Mar: Yes pls
[5/13/2017 11:54:36 AM] Carlos Mar: Active and avalible
[5/13/2017 11:55:55 AM] Rosalyn Johnson: Active and available projects?
[5/13/2017 11:55:58 AM] Rosalyn Johnson: or roles?
[5/13/2017 11:56:39 AM] Carlos Mar: Yes self paced so... We Kinna have to make em up on our own , no one here will tell another you have to do anythin. , I won't not my cup .
[5/13/2017 11:57:03 AM] Carlos Mar: To grow we need activity
[5/13/2017 11:57:16 AM] Carlos Mar: Action flow and ... Ebb

Proteus

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[5/13/2017 11:59:03 AM] Proteus: well, lets review what kinds of things clergy has had to do in the past, then look at what we've learned up to this point about what is needed, and adjust those things to fulfil what is missing.
[5/13/2017 11:59:39 AM] Proteus: of course there is the question about what the role of clergy is. are we still on that or past it? or is this a precursor to that?

[5/13/2017 11:59:49 AM] Alexandre Orion: Ros ...
[5/13/2017 12:00:00 PM] Alexandre Orion: could I interject something there ?
[5/13/2017 12:00:16 PM] Rosalyn Johnson: um Atticus is next
[5/13/2017 12:00:36 PM] Rick (Atticus) Laws: No worries, I think we're getting to where I wanted to go.
[5/13/2017 12:00:51 PM] Rick (Atticus) Laws: I'll yield the floor to Maitre
Alexandre Orion

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[5/13/2017 12:01:09 PM] Alexandre Orion: I didn't want to step on Rick ... it was more in relation to what Ethan and Carlos were talking about
[5/13/2017 12:01:54 PM] Alexandre Orion: what I was going to say hereafter would be completely uprooted if this doesn't get addressed
[5/13/2017 12:02:14 PM] Alexandre Orion: first, I feel that Carlos is right about us needing to keep moving
[5/13/2017 12:02:43 PM] Alexandre Orion: sometimes we'll take a bad step, but we're still doing okay if we keep moving along
[5/13/2017 12:03:04 PM] Carlos Mar: Foward !
[5/13/2017 12:03:08 PM] Alexandre Orion: I'm not sure that clergy has a "practical" application -- not in the usual sense of the word "practical"
[5/13/2017 12:03:27 PM] Alexandre Orion: people don't need clergy to explain natural phenomena
[5/13/2017 12:03:52 PM] Alexandre Orion: they don't need clergy for knowing what is moral/ethical up to a quite un-certain limit
[5/13/2017 12:04:26 PM] Alexandre Orion: on the other hand, people do need us for the things on which all that is "practical" rests -- that is : how we experience things
[5/13/2017 12:05:29 PM] Alexandre Orion: we are sometimes ourselves trapped in the bubble of conforming to what "clergy" do as per a generalised image of herding a flock of sheep
[5/13/2017 12:05:36 PM] Alexandre Orion: or something like that
[5/13/2017 12:05:53 PM] Alexandre Orion: we have to move forward out of that
[5/13/2017 12:06:18 PM] Alexandre Orion: we can look at what clergies have done in the past, but that was in a past era
[5/13/2017 12:07:00 PM] Alexandre Orion: people don't need to consult clergy for what they can get from doctors, lawyers and encyclopaedia
[5/13/2017 12:07:27 PM] Alexandre Orion: on the other hand, there are questions that these learned professions can't answer
[5/13/2017 12:07:32 PM] Alexandre Orion: we can't either
[5/13/2017 12:07:44 PM] Alexandre Orion: and that is where we need to go forward into
[5/13/2017 12:08:02 PM] Alexandre Orion: ***

Carlos

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[5/13/2017 12:08:56 PM] Carlos Mar: Yes , Truthfully.... practically ... we are miles away from our mission , I see ..we as clergy are in an un--avalible status mostly our goal should have some form of Avalibility unsee the foward as the Avalibility we will be BLESSED if we adapt this ...
[5/13/2017 12:09:15 PM] Carlos Mar: We are present but .... Not being used
[5/13/2017 12:10:24 PM] Carlos Mar: ...
[5/13/2017 12:10:27 PM] Carlos Mar: ***
[5/13/2017 12:10:57 PM] Rosalyn Johnson: Most of that I got
[5/13/2017 12:11:13 PM] Carlos Mar: Bad fgrammer sorry
[5/13/2017 12:11:34 PM] Rosalyn Johnson: I got a little confused at "unsee the forward as the availability we will be blessed"
[5/13/2017 12:12:01 PM] Carlos Mar: We need more green dots present less in un avalibles l o l
[5/13/2017 12:12:24 PM] Rosalyn Johnson: in chat?
[5/13/2017 12:12:36 PM] Carlos Mar: On the Temple maybe ...
[5/13/2017 12:13:01 PM] Carlos Mar: Yes
[5/13/2017 12:13:10 PM] Carlos Mar: Clergy you can talk to lol
[5/13/2017 12:13:22 PM] Rosalyn Johnson: ok cool

Rosalyn J

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[5/13/2017 12:13:53 PM] Rosalyn Johnson: valuable information so far, but maybe we are a bit off course
[5/13/2017 12:14:28 PM] Rosalyn Johnson: What I really would like is a simple statement about the purpose (or mission) of the clergy
[5/13/2017 12:14:42 PM] Rosalyn Johnson: and then a list of ways in which we fulfill that purpose
[5/13/2017 12:15:00 PM] Rosalyn Johnson: this can (and needs to) be broad
[5/13/2017 12:15:10 PM] Rosalyn Johnson: as broad as we can make it
[5/13/2017 12:15:30 PM] Rosalyn Johnson: but something people can walk away with an understanding of
[5/13/2017 12:15:34 PM] Alexandre Orion: to inspire people away from rationality and practicality
[5/13/2017 12:15:37 PM] Alexandre Orion: (think)
[5/13/2017 12:15:39 PM] Rosalyn Johnson: something that gives us some direction

Proteus

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[5/13/2017 12:16:18 PM] Rosalyn Johnson: Proteus has the word
[5/13/2017 12:17:44 PM] Proteus: there are at least a couple aspects about being a Jedi that a clergyperson can be of use with guiding where a teaching master may not
[5/13/2017 12:19:31 PM] Proteus: one is the existential condition one is or may end up in which one may need help with getting through or understanding
[5/13/2017 12:20:06 PM] Proteus: People come to the temple, and are shown things that turn their reality upside down
[5/13/2017 12:20:27 PM] Proteus: they have a crisis of faith or in the state of their reality
[5/13/2017 12:21:52 PM] Proteus: on top of that they might try to gather explanation from general forum discussion which probably would include responses from anyone including guests who may not have helpful responses
[5/13/2017 12:22:09 PM] Proteus: they get discouraged and leave
[5/13/2017 12:22:54 PM] Proteus: there is always the more ritual aspects such as marriages, funerals, etc
[5/13/2017 12:23:07 PM] Proteus: I'm not sure what my thoughts are on that
[5/13/2017 12:25:05 PM] Proteus: all I know is that on the deeper level, what I mention above is always what comes to mind when I think about what the clergy would be about, especially considering what we learn in the seminary combined with what we learn in the IP.
[5/13/2017 12:25:13 PM] Proteus: ***
[5/13/2017 12:25:29 PM] Rosalyn Johnson: Right
[5/13/2017 12:25:35 PM] Rosalyn Johnson: thank you E

[5/13/2017 12:25:39 PM] Rosalyn Johnson: is there anyone ?
[5/13/2017 12:25:50 PM] Carlos Mar: !
[5/13/2017 12:25:50 PM] Alexandre Orion: wasn't Rick wanting a go ?
[5/13/2017 12:26:10 PM] Rosalyn Johnson: Rick had to leave
[5/13/2017 12:26:14 PM] Alexandre Orion:
[5/13/2017 12:26:20 PM] Rosalyn Johnson: I think he just has a question
[5/13/2017 12:26:23 PM] Alexandre Orion: well shit
[5/13/2017 12:26:26 PM] Carlos Mar: May I ?
Rosalyn J

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[5/13/2017 12:27:54 PM] Rosalyn Johnson: I'd like to speak a bit
[5/13/2017 12:27:57 PM] Rosalyn Johnson:
[5/13/2017 12:28:26 PM] Rosalyn Johnson: I've been a member of the clergy for a while now
[5/13/2017 12:28:53 PM] Rosalyn Johnson: I have noticed the feeling of:
[5/13/2017 12:28:58 PM] Rosalyn Johnson: Not being used
[5/13/2017 12:29:24 PM] Rosalyn Johnson: I have noticed the confusion of: what/why are the clergy?
[5/13/2017 12:29:43 PM] Rosalyn Johnson: and I have heard: well the clergy don't really do anything
[5/13/2017 12:30:04 PM] Rosalyn Johnson: its why I wanted to bring forward this topic
[5/13/2017 12:30:26 PM] Proteus: was there something needing done with the bylaws?
[5/13/2017 12:30:35 PM] Rosalyn Johnson: I do not, I repeat, do not, want to create a one size fits all clergy
[5/13/2017 12:30:41 PM] Carlos Mar: I say no
[5/13/2017 12:31:03 PM] Rosalyn Johnson: I dont want to sit and say this and that needs to be done or you cannot call yourself active clergy
[5/13/2017 12:31:52 PM] Rosalyn Johnson: If I ever do that, or think about doing that to something as precious as this body or the wider temple I am asking each of you to tell me
[5/13/2017 12:32:02 PM] Rosalyn Johnson: I never want to do that
[5/13/2017 12:32:23 PM] Rosalyn Johnson: what I do want to do is create space and direction for this body
[5/13/2017 12:32:38 PM] Rosalyn Johnson: Carlos talked about active and available
[5/13/2017 12:33:01 PM] Rosalyn Johnson: I believe there does in fact need to be some atonomy
[5/13/2017 12:33:24 PM] Rosalyn Johnson: but atonomy doesnt need to be an excuse for invisability
[5/13/2017 12:34:09 PM] Rosalyn Johnson: We can all make our own projects, but our projects need to be aligned with a mission we can get behind
[5/13/2017 12:34:33 PM] Rosalyn Johnson: and we all need to know what others are doing otherwise we will step on someone's toes eventually
[5/13/2017 12:34:51 PM] Carlos Mar: There is a solution to that
[5/13/2017 12:35:12 PM] Rosalyn Johnson: if carlos makes an outreach project and I make one and neither communicates with the other we may end up doing double work
[5/13/2017 12:35:48 PM] Rosalyn Johnson: I'm not suggesting that the minute details of every encounter be divulged
[5/13/2017 12:35:52 PM] Rosalyn Johnson: but hey
[5/13/2017 12:36:15 PM] Rosalyn Johnson: if your project is to send cards to members who are struggling, let us know
[5/13/2017 12:36:21 PM] Rosalyn Johnson: we'll cheer you on
[5/13/2017 12:36:26 PM] Carlos Mar: ... We are both avslible if... Our mission is the same .
[5/13/2017 12:36:49 PM] Rosalyn Johnson: so please dont be afraid when I say mission and objectives
[5/13/2017 12:36:56 PM] Rosalyn Johnson: We are not a business
[5/13/2017 12:37:04 PM] Rosalyn Johnson: We are a body of clergy
[5/13/2017 12:37:11 PM] Rosalyn Johnson: we will never be a business
[5/13/2017 12:37:19 PM] Rosalyn Johnson: but we need a guiding point
[5/13/2017 12:37:25 PM] Rosalyn Johnson: thats all
[5/13/2017 12:37:32 PM] Rosalyn Johnson: *

[5/13/2017 12:37:38 PM] Carlos Mar: Clergy ourself Need a mission statement so we stop asking what's our purpose period .
Alexandre Orion

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[5/13/2017 12:37:42 PM] Rosalyn Johnson: Alex has the word
[5/13/2017 12:37:48 PM] Carlos Mar: Sorry ...
[5/13/2017 12:37:52 PM] Carlos Mar: So sorry
[5/13/2017 12:38:40 PM] Alexandre Orion: there were a few things that I wanted to put out there for thought but also ask you to feel about (because "thought" doesn't get around it)
[5/13/2017 12:38:57 PM] Alexandre Orion: first of all, the ritual aspect of Clergy is pretty important
[5/13/2017 12:39:22 PM] Alexandre Orion: the first and foremost thing that ritual does is it gives us something to count on
[5/13/2017 12:39:31 PM] Alexandre Orion: it may not answer all of our questions
[5/13/2017 12:40:08 PM] Alexandre Orion: but it gives us the space to have questions whereas the world we move through most of the time expects us to have answers
[5/13/2017 12:40:25 PM] Alexandre Orion: ritual is also how we reset our clocks
[5/13/2017 12:41:22 PM] Alexandre Orion: it was like when Campbell was saying that we need to have time to go to our special place -- to listen to corny music that we like without having to think about "why"
[5/13/2017 12:42:39 PM] Alexandre Orion: sure, we may set the time and date for rituals by our clocks and calendars, but during the ritual itself, it synchronises our profane (everyday, worldly) time with sacred time (eternity, the present moment - outside of time)
[5/13/2017 12:42:58 PM] Alexandre Orion: in short, during the ritual, it doesn't matter what time or day it is
[5/13/2017 12:43:16 PM] Alexandre Orion: our experience of it is in illo tempore
[5/13/2017 12:43:27 PM] Alexandre Orion: ("once upon a time ...")
[5/13/2017 12:43:53 PM] Alexandre Orion: by sharing ritual, this is how we reinforce community
[5/13/2017 12:44:10 PM] Alexandre Orion: and community is the first, best solution to solitude
[5/13/2017 12:44:43 PM] Alexandre Orion: that that even the solitude we feel confronted by that existential angst : "is this all I am ?"
[5/13/2017 12:45:07 PM] Alexandre Orion: we may need to do a little searching for an uncorrupted language
[5/13/2017 12:46:38 PM] Alexandre Orion: because what clergy do best is to guide people on their discovery of the transcendent = what is that vaste thing I'm of, that I've come out of, and that will eventually reabsorb me without a trace ... ?
[5/13/2017 12:46:44 PM] Alexandre Orion: but
[5/13/2017 12:46:47 PM] Alexandre Orion: but
[5/13/2017 12:47:00 PM] Alexandre Orion: this is where we get into the clergy trap :
[5/13/2017 12:48:59 PM] Alexandre Orion: when we say (and probably when we hear) terms like "transcendent/to transcend" we get the post-modern consumerist notions of Mararishi Mahesh Yogi (and consequently his Management School) or some kind of ultra-spiritual message from the Pleidians ...
[5/13/2017 12:49:04 PM] Alexandre Orion: that is not what it is
[5/13/2017 12:49:24 PM] Alexandre Orion: we also have to be very careful about how we intend the term "spiritual"
[5/13/2017 12:49:55 PM] Alexandre Orion: generally -- and it has been like this for a while -- "spiritual" is a pretty good commodity too
[5/13/2017 12:50:03 PM] Carlos Mar: I've learned that caution my self in my own personal path
[5/13/2017 12:50:33 PM] Alexandre Orion: most often, when we hear about something billed as "spiritual" it is much more "mental"
[5/13/2017 12:50:56 PM] Alexandre Orion: it is left-brain stuff that our Reason can get its teeth into
[5/13/2017 12:51:03 PM] Alexandre Orion: it is not
[5/13/2017 12:51:18 PM] Alexandre Orion: it can be understood only by saying what it is "like"
[5/13/2017 12:51:23 PM] Alexandre Orion: through allegory
[5/13/2017 12:52:19 PM] Bart: Maitre, about the ritual aspect, do you mean we should create a more standard format for rituals with more rituals?
[5/13/2017 12:52:20 PM] Alexandre Orion: certainly we are here to provide guidance to the Temple members - AND to one another ("clergy need clergy too")
[5/13/2017 12:53:14 PM] Alexandre Orion: rituals, Carlos, are anything that comes about when people come together in a particular attitude, at a particular time (and place)
[5/13/2017 12:53:19 PM] Alexandre Orion: and do the same thing
[5/13/2017 12:53:28 PM] Alexandre Orion: repetition becomes ritual
[5/13/2017 12:53:51 PM] Alexandre Orion: there are un-wholesome rituals just like there are some very wholesome ones
[5/13/2017 12:54:16 PM] Alexandre Orion: our goal should probably be to provide wholesome ones
[5/13/2017 12:54:18 PM] Alexandre Orion:
[5/13/2017 12:54:22 PM] Alexandre Orion: anyway
[5/13/2017 12:54:48 PM] Alexandre Orion: ritual is to build supportive community
[5/13/2017 12:55:32 PM] Alexandre Orion: and our job as clergy isn't necessarily to know the answers about people's existential questions -- but to know the nature of existential questions as such
[5/13/2017 12:55:43 PM] Alexandre Orion: and give them the space for them
[5/13/2017 12:55:51 PM] Alexandre Orion: and be there with them
[5/13/2017 12:55:59 PM] Carlos Mar: Smiley face !
[5/13/2017 12:56:18 PM] Rosalyn Johnson: Wow
[5/13/2017 12:56:27 PM] Rosalyn Johnson: quite a bit there

[5/13/2017 12:56:50 PM] Carlos Mar: A revolving mission statement would begin that wouldn't it?
[5/13/2017 12:57:12 PM] Rosalyn Johnson: We've been at this for almost two hours
[5/13/2017 12:57:37 PM] Rosalyn Johnson: We'll meet again in two weeks
[5/13/2017 12:57:58 PM] Rosalyn Johnson: Unless anyone has any final comments, I'd like to adjourn with the creed
[5/13/2017 12:58:03 PM] Rosalyn Johnson: Anyone?
[5/13/2017 12:58:33 PM | Edited 12:59:25 PM] Bart: I did have a question, but I guess I will keep it for later..
[5/13/2017 12:58:50 PM] Bart: :$
[5/13/2017 12:59:01 PM] Carlos Mar: Post it on the forum when this is posted to continue it pls?
[5/13/2017 12:59:24 PM] Carlos Mar: I liked this meeting for some reason
Codex

Warning: Spoiler!

[5/13/2017 12:59:27 PM] Rosalyn Johnson: Bart?
[5/13/2017 12:59:34 PM] Rosalyn Johnson: Your question?
[5/13/2017 12:59:42 PM] Bart: Just my opinion nothing more.. How to say.. Direction is a difficult something. On one side we want to do something? And on the other side we want to prove that we do something? I would like to see a more active approach to the community. Personally I think that the mission of the Clergy is to guide people with personal troubles, but also to inspire people.
An inspired community is more able to go into action I believe. If someone is not inspired, how can he or she bind to the Temple and maybe choose to become a member? How can a Novice become a Knight without inspiration to finish his or her IP if troubles float inside? Inspiration + Guidance should be considered part of the mission pillars of a minister? If we do not create global missions we could create a global set of pillars to build our mission on? Also a basic instruction what a Clergy member can do for an individual could be listed on the site, with more visible instructions, so that people are more able and willingly to ask a Clergy member for help.
The worries I have about the Clergy go beyond this meeting, but to stay on topic, I hope that the goals of the clergy will aid one his personal mission to be of use to the community. Being more in one line might be useful, every person has different capabilities and skills, we should combine them more effectively if we want to make a global Clerical purpose, or individual mission. The clergy should invest more in her global structure in order to make a mission on Clerical scale, even if there is no fixed way, we need a fixed presentation, we should be like an unification of different missions and approaches aiming to a similar goal.
[5/13/2017 1:00:10 PM] Bart: Question is about becomming more familiar with people
[5/13/2017 1:00:18 PM] Bart: A lot of people do not know how the clergy works.
[5/13/2017 1:00:22 PM] Alexandre Orion: brilliant !
[5/13/2017 1:00:29 PM] Bart: :$
[5/13/2017 1:00:36 PM] Bart: ***

Alexandre Orion

Warning: Spoiler!

[5/13/2017 1:00:47 PM] Alexandre Orion: an anecdote :
[5/13/2017 1:01:40 PM] Alexandre Orion: when I was in grad school, we lived together with a political scientist and a ceramic engineer (pizo-electric stuff)
[5/13/2017 1:02:15 PM] Carlos Mar: Phones dying oh nooo love y'all !!!
[5/13/2017 1:02:23 PM] Alexandre Orion: and he would go to work at weird hours in the lab, while Heather (the political scientist) would churn through articles in the library
[5/13/2017 1:02:27 PM] Alexandre Orion: and me ...
[5/13/2017 1:02:28 PM] Alexandre Orion: well
[5/13/2017 1:02:30 PM] Bart: Force Shine with you Carlos!!
[5/13/2017 1:02:55 PM] Alexandre Orion: philosophy has to do with pondering questions, scratching out notes, thinking a lot
[5/13/2017 1:03:12 PM] Alexandre Orion: now, to us -- we had no clue what he did in the lab
[5/13/2017 1:03:16 PM] Carlos Mar: And may it find u every where u seek it Bart !
[5/13/2017 1:03:24 PM] Alexandre Orion: and I even went with him there a few times
[5/13/2017 1:03:39 PM] Alexandre Orion: still : no clue at all what he did
[5/13/2017 1:05:03 PM] Alexandre Orion: I'm better at having conversations with Heather, because there is more of an intellectual foothold - but even we would get 'separated' from one another because she deals with empirical data sets where my area is thoroughly set in the hypothetical/theoretical
[5/13/2017 1:05:20 PM] Alexandre Orion: it was easy for us to not really know what the others "do"
[5/13/2017 1:05:47 PM] Alexandre Orion: to the engineer, neither of us "did" anything
[5/13/2017 1:05:52 PM] Alexandre Orion: we would sit and read
[5/13/2017 1:05:58 PM] Alexandre Orion: I did the least of all
[5/13/2017 1:06:18 PM] Alexandre Orion: just a lot of "thinking" and writing on stuff that seems like it doesn't matter ....
[5/13/2017 1:06:29 PM] Alexandre Orion: ... because it has no "practical" application
[5/13/2017 1:07:20 PM] Alexandre Orion: but it is funny how when either of them were in an identity crisis -- he didn't go to the lab to "test" the questions
[5/13/2017 1:07:30 PM] Alexandre Orion: and she wouldn't go to the library
[5/13/2017 1:07:44 PM] Alexandre Orion: both of them chatted with me over coffee
[5/13/2017 1:07:49 PM] Alexandre Orion: that
[5/13/2017 1:07:55 PM | Edited 1:08:08 PM] Alexandre Orion: that is what clergy "do"
[5/13/2017 1:08:51 PM] Alexandre Orion: but it requires a lot of pondering, questioning, synthesising
[5/13/2017 1:08:53 PM] Bart: And yet people do not realize that.. at least.. that is what I come up with after reading trough this meeting comments. (mm)
[5/13/2017 1:09:07 PM] Alexandre Orion: that is what I was trying to illustrate
[5/13/2017 1:09:08 PM] Bart: People do not approach? If I recall that correctly.
[5/13/2017 1:09:14 PM] Alexandre Orion: they aren't going to know
[5/13/2017 1:09:29 PM] Alexandre Orion: and that maybe even having experienced first-hand what we do
[5/13/2017 1:09:38 PM] Carlos Mar: Because it is not some where we can all have as a guide
[5/13/2017 1:10:05 PM] Carlos Mar: Seriously we need to pen these things

Proteus et al on The Purpose of the Clergy

Warning: Spoiler!

[5/13/2017 1:10:08 PM] Proteus: how many clergy actively interact with other members of the temple to get to know them and establish a trust, similar to how many have with Alex here?
[5/13/2017 1:10:39 PM] Carlos Mar: I council often
[5/13/2017 1:10:57 PM] Carlos Mar: On and off the Temple
[5/13/2017 1:11:05 PM] Rosalyn Johnson: I talk to people
[5/13/2017 1:11:10 PM] Alexandre Orion: same ... more off actually
[5/13/2017 1:11:21 PM] Rosalyn Johnson: not as often as I'd like
[5/13/2017 1:11:23 PM] Alexandre Orion: most here in the community
[5/13/2017 1:11:32 PM] Alexandre Orion: I mean Dijon
[5/13/2017 1:12:02 PM] Carlos Mar: I ask if we can pen these things ... A current that's the right word mission statement this is what we do
[5/13/2017 1:12:26 PM] Carlos Mar: So we can stop asking ... And start doing
[5/13/2017 1:12:53 PM] Proteus: we could, at least for the sake of it being established in some way, but perhaps the real need is for It to happen more than it just being proclaimed.
[5/13/2017 1:13:19 PM] Rick (Atticus) Laws: ^that
[5/13/2017 1:13:33 PM] Carlos Mar: I agree
[5/13/2017 1:13:59 PM] Carlos Mar: We need both
[5/13/2017 1:14:47 PM] Bart: Even if one cannot 'know' what a Clergy member does, it still needs some way to be expressed or people will hold back to seek contact.
[5/13/2017 1:15:07 PM] Bart: Just trying to say it confuses me how things are written out on the site..
[5/13/2017 1:15:13 PM] Bart: (mm)
[5/13/2017 1:15:23 PM] Carlos Mar: Let's clarify then ...
[5/13/2017 1:15:48 PM] Rosalyn Johnson: what the clergy does "is" currently written out on the FAQ's
[5/13/2017 1:16:06 PM] Rosalyn Johnson: let me see
[5/13/2017 1:16:11 PM] Rosalyn Johnson: I can find it
[5/13/2017 1:16:22 PM] Alexandre Orion: the ontology of Clergy is a discussion in itself
[5/13/2017 1:16:24 PM] Bart: ,,If a member is struggling spiritually, or they need someone to talk to, or they need some guidance then that is what the clergy are there for.''
[5/13/2017 1:16:29 PM] Alexandre Orion: the "is-ness"
[5/13/2017 1:17:44 PM] Alexandre Orion: remember when Yoda made Luke go into the cave ?
[5/13/2017 1:18:00 PM] Bart: You do or do not?
[5/13/2017 1:18:08 PM] Alexandre Orion: as Master/Mentor ... Yoda merely took Luke to the cave and told him to go in
[5/13/2017 1:18:25 PM] Proteus: here is my question: how often does someone "come to clergy" for spiritual guidance?
[5/13/2017 1:18:47 PM | Edited 1:21:27 PM] Alexandre Orion: it is sort of our job, as Clergy, to be there in the cave
[5/13/2017 1:19:01 PM] Alexandre Orion: not to "help" other than just being there
[5/13/2017 1:19:13 PM] Rosalyn Johnson: AH brilliant
[5/13/2017 1:19:20 PM] Alexandre Orion: because everyone's "path" is full of caves
[5/13/2017 1:19:43 PM] Alexandre Orion: they are dark, damp, nasty, full of vile shit that we carry in with us
[5/13/2017 1:20:08 PM] Alexandre Orion: and there's just that "yah, I know right ?" bit of encouragement that can help get through it
[5/13/2017 1:20:54 PM] Rosalyn Johnson: Thats really good
[5/13/2017 1:21:11 PM] Rosalyn Johnson: if we could put that in sentence form that would be wonderful
[5/13/2017 1:21:21 PM] Proteus: how often though have the clergy been approached?
[5/13/2017 1:21:45 PM] Alexandre Orion: I don't know, GE
[5/13/2017 1:21:45 PM] Rosalyn Johnson: I dont think we keep record of that E
[5/13/2017 1:21:54 PM] Alexandre Orion: typically, we are always on the clock
[5/13/2017 1:22:04 PM] Alexandre Orion: and we don't really keep a tally
[5/13/2017 1:22:18 PM] Alexandre Orion: someone comes for a conversation, we have a conversation
[5/13/2017 1:22:23 PM] Alexandre Orion: then we forget about it
[5/13/2017 1:22:28 PM] Alexandre Orion: Tao 2
[5/13/2017 1:22:54 PM] Proteus: I'm not asking for specific numbers or records. i'm just asking about if there is a frequency there at all.
[5/13/2017 1:23:06 PM] Proteus: because if nobody has ever heard of it happening, well...
[5/13/2017 1:23:52 PM] Alexandre Orion: McTotJO - Over 50 Billion served
[5/13/2017 1:23:53 PM] Alexandre Orion:
[5/13/2017 1:24:03 PM] Carlos Mar: Lol
[5/13/2017 1:24:07 PM] Peter Kis: hehe

Rosalyn J et al on getting out in front

Warning: Spoiler!

[5/13/2017 1:24:15 PM] Rosalyn Johnson: I think we can mitigate that issue by creating projects that put our clergy in greater activity with the wider forum
[5/13/2017 1:24:29 PM] Rosalyn Johnson: People come to people they see
[5/13/2017 1:24:38 PM] Rosalyn Johnson: people who are present
[5/13/2017 1:24:45 PM] Carlos Mar: Avalible
[5/13/2017 1:25:05 PM] Rosalyn Johnson: people who demonstrate, in someway, to them, that they are capable of going into the cave
[5/13/2017 1:25:09 PM] Bart:
[5/13/2017 1:25:38 PM] Bart: More forum presence would be an amazing something indeed Rosa!
[5/13/2017 1:25:57 PM] Proteus: I think I ask because, I find myself wondering if many if anyone tends to feel they need the clergy, or feel they trust or confide in the clergy when they are going through something personal, and even how many members at totjo even get to a point of thinking about things deep enough to even get near hitting such a point as to need to.
[5/13/2017 1:26:08 PM] Rosalyn Johnson: Even so, I dont see why one of the projects couldnt be looking at the wall and seeing who might be struggling
[5/13/2017 1:26:41 PM] Alexandre Orion: I forget the wall is there :$
[5/13/2017 1:26:46 PM] Alexandre Orion: I don't want that job
[5/13/2017 1:26:50 PM] Carlos Mar: As do I
[5/13/2017 1:26:57 PM] Carlos Mar: Pass
[5/13/2017 1:27:04 PM] Rosalyn Johnson: LOL
[5/13/2017 1:27:08 PM] Bart: You get used to it.. eventually!
[5/13/2017 1:27:20 PM] Alexandre Orion: besides ... the worst struggling is probably not when people actually say "I'm struggling"
[5/13/2017 1:27:21 PM] Carlos Mar: I can learn
[5/13/2017 1:27:27 PM] Bart: I forgot to put the messages visibility a lot lately though.. :S
[5/13/2017 1:27:34 PM] Rosalyn Johnson: True
[5/13/2017 1:27:46 PM] Rosalyn Johnson: that is why I have come up with another idea
[5/13/2017 1:28:17 PM] Rosalyn Johnson: no one below apprentice has a TM
[5/13/2017 1:28:25 PM] Rosalyn Johnson: who do they talk to?
[5/13/2017 1:28:32 PM] Bart: Mmm..
[5/13/2017 1:28:35 PM] Proteus: I'm just not sure that most people really know when they're going through an issue that is "spiritual", or what it looks like apart from perhaps having a mental disfunction that they'd go to a doctor for or something.
[5/13/2017 1:28:36 PM] Bart: sip officer?
[5/13/2017 1:28:42 PM] Carlos Mar: Ip team ?
[5/13/2017 1:28:42 PM] Rosalyn Johnson: I think we can step in and fill that gap
[5/13/2017 1:28:45 PM] Peter Kis: IP team perhaps
[5/13/2017 1:28:47 PM] Peter Kis: yup
[5/13/2017 1:28:58 PM] Carlos Mar: We can aid
[5/13/2017 1:29:10 PM] Rosalyn Johnson: IP team gets to all of them?
[5/13/2017 1:29:12 PM] Bart: I think it would be wise to do that as part of an IP lesson.
[5/13/2017 1:29:25 PM] Rosalyn Johnson: even those not actively studying?
[5/13/2017 1:29:33 PM] Carlos Mar: The ip team is actually students themselgs ....
[5/13/2017 1:29:38 PM] Rosalyn Johnson: even those who are initiates and are waiting?
[5/13/2017 1:29:38 PM | Edited 1:29:52 PM] Bart: IP lesson: Seek a Cleric you feel comfortable with and have a chat.
[5/13/2017 1:29:51 PM] Carlos Mar: Lateral
[5/13/2017 1:30:13 PM] Peter Kis: People confide in others whom they know and trust - I think that should be a starting point
[5/13/2017 1:30:31 PM] Carlos Mar: There will be...
[5/13/2017 1:30:49 PM] Rosalyn Johnson: I think maybe we could do some out reach
[5/13/2017 1:31:06 PM] Carlos Mar: That's the result of this meeting !
[5/13/2017 1:31:12 PM] Rosalyn Johnson: people may be too afraid/intimidated to do the reaching out
[5/13/2017 1:31:30 PM | Edited 1:32:08 PM] Bart: I am sure that people feel that..
Cyan Sardan et al on Introducing the normality of the Clergy

Warning: Spoiler!

[5/13/2017 1:33:00 PM] Peter Kis: I think we should generally work on spreading the idea that it should be considered normal to confide in the clergy. At this point, I'm not sure most people would think that way.
[5/13/2017 1:33:28 PM | Edited 1:33:48 PM] Bart: How to introduce an idea or way of thinking into a community?
[5/13/2017 1:33:43 PM] Proteus: there is a portion of the member base who don't agree to jediism even as religious.
[5/13/2017 1:33:53 PM] Carlos Mar: By example in action
[5/13/2017 1:34:03 PM] Alexandre Orion: that is an advantage more than a disadvantage
[5/13/2017 1:34:20 PM] Alexandre Orion: that they don't see it as religious
[5/13/2017 1:34:22 PM] Proteus: and half of those who do or might, are probably frightened of being involved in such an aspect due to past experiences with other religious organizations that they've had
[5/13/2017 1:34:25 PM] Alexandre Orion: because
[5/13/2017 1:34:29 PM] Peter Kis: How do the Catholics do it?
[5/13/2017 1:34:43 PM] Alexandre Orion: "religion" is a mis-understood notion these days as well
[5/13/2017 1:34:47 PM] Carlos Mar: Part 2 need to see the opposition execution as well
[5/13/2017 1:34:57 PM] Proteus: then you have the kind who feel simply above all of it
[5/13/2017 1:35:22 PM] Alexandre Orion: if someone can understand that existence is just weird
[5/13/2017 1:35:25 PM] Proteus: there are various crowds you'd have to gain the trust of
[5/13/2017 1:35:34 PM] Alexandre Orion: that there is no formula for fulfilment
[5/13/2017 1:36:13 PM] Proteus: "I'm sorry Clergy, I can't hear you over the sound of how Jedi I'm being right now!!"
[5/13/2017 1:36:29 PM] Alexandre Orion: that we have to give meaning to our lives - but not count on that meaning being very stable ... we have to keep making meaning
[5/13/2017 1:36:31 PM] Alexandre Orion: and
[5/13/2017 1:36:50 PM] Alexandre Orion: we have to make that meaning in the space of our questions and our communion with others
[5/13/2017 1:37:08 PM] Alexandre Orion: then we can get somewhere
[5/13/2017 1:37:25 PM] Peter Kis: agreed E, that should be avoided. But establishing a culture in whish it's normal to trust and confide in others doesn't necessarily have anything to do with religion
[5/13/2017 1:37:26 PM] Alexandre Orion: that obnoxiously difficult to find somewhere that is "here"
[5/13/2017 1:38:02 PM] Bart: formula for fulfilment: Happiness = Satisfaction / desires ?

The Creed and Adjournment

Warning: Spoiler!

[5/13/2017 1:38:15 PM] Rosalyn Johnson: guuuuuuuuys
[5/13/2017 1:38:21 PM] Rosalyn Johnson: I love you
[5/13/2017 1:38:36 PM] Rosalyn Johnson: we've also been at this for a while
[5/13/2017 1:38:38 PM] Carlos Mar: You are in my heart pastor as well !
[5/13/2017 1:39:16 PM] Rosalyn Johnson: We can pick up this conversation after we adjorn the meeting
[5/13/2017 1:39:19 PM] Rosalyn Johnson:
[5/13/2017 1:39:25 PM] Rosalyn Johnson: or in two weeks
[5/13/2017 1:39:39 PM] Rosalyn Johnson: or on the forum
[5/13/2017 1:39:39 PM] Alexandre Orion: I am a Jedi ; an instrument of peace ...
[5/13/2017 1:39:43 PM] Alexandre Orion:
[5/13/2017 1:39:58 PM] Bart: I am a Jedi, an instrument of peace;
[5/13/2017 1:40:08 PM] Carlos Mar: I am a Jedi an istumentnof peace
[5/13/2017 1:40:11 PM] Peter Kis: I am a Jedi, an instrument of peace
[5/13/2017 1:40:41 PM] Carlos Mar: An instrument of peace ...
[5/13/2017 1:40:46 PM] Carlos Mar: Sorry
[5/13/2017 1:40:48 PM] Rosalyn Johnson: Where there is hatred, I shall bring love
[5/13/2017 1:40:57 PM] Bart: Where there is hatred I shall bring love;
[5/13/2017 1:41:00 PM] Peter Kis: where there is hatred, I shall bring love
[5/13/2017 1:41:06 PM] Carlos Mar: Where there is hatred I shall bring ... Love
[5/13/2017 1:41:09 PM] Alexandre Orion: Where there is hatred, I shall bring Love
[5/13/2017 1:41:35 PM] Rosalyn Johnson: Where there is injury, pardon
[5/13/2017 1:41:42 PM | Edited 1:42:58 PM] Bart: Where there is injury, pardon;
[5/13/2017 1:41:44 PM] Alexandre Orion: Where there is injury, Pardon
[5/13/2017 1:41:50 PM] Carlos Mar: Where there is injury , pardon
[5/13/2017 1:42:06 PM] Peter Kis: where there is injury, pardon
[5/13/2017 1:42:33 PM] Rosalyn Johnson: Where there is doubt, faith
[5/13/2017 1:42:36 PM] Alexandre Orion: Where there is doubt, Faith
[5/13/2017 1:42:45 PM] Bart: Where there is doubt, faith;
[5/13/2017 1:42:46 PM] Carlos Mar: Where there is doubt faith !
[5/13/2017 1:42:46 PM] Peter Kis: where there is doubt, faith
[5/13/2017 1:43:28 PM] Rosalyn Johnson: Where there is despair, hope
[5/13/2017 1:43:31 PM] Alexandre Orion: Where there is despair, Hope
[5/13/2017 1:43:36 PM] Bart: Where there is despair, hope;
[5/13/2017 1:43:39 PM] Peter Kis: where there is despair, hope
[5/13/2017 1:43:43 PM] Carlos Mar: Where there is dis pair hope
[5/13/2017 1:44:06 PM] Rosalyn Johnson: Where there is darkness, light
[5/13/2017 1:44:08 PM] Alexandre Orion: Where there is darkness, Light
[5/13/2017 1:44:14 PM] Peter Kis: where there id darkness, light
[5/13/2017 1:44:14 PM] Bart: Where there is darkness, light;
[5/13/2017 1:44:32 PM] Carlos Mar: Where there is darkness light
[5/13/2017 1:45:00 PM] Rosalyn Johnson: and where there is sadness, joy
[5/13/2017 1:45:02 PM] Alexandre Orion: And where there is sadness, Joy
[5/13/2017 1:45:08 PM] Peter Kis: and where there is sadness, joy
[5/13/2017 1:45:11 PM] Bart: And where there is sadness, joy.
[5/13/2017 1:45:15 PM] Carlos Mar: And whee there is sadness joy
[5/13/2017 1:45:47 PM] Rosalyn Johnson: I am a Jedi
[5/13/2017 1:45:49 PM] Alexandre Orion: I am a Jedi...
[5/13/2017 1:45:52 PM] Bart: I am a Jedi.
[5/13/2017 1:45:55 PM] Peter Kis: I am a Jedi
[5/13/2017 1:46:26 PM] Carlos Mar: I am jedion
[5/13/2017 1:46:31 PM] Carlos Mar: I am a Jedi
[5/13/2017 1:46:54 PM] Rosalyn Johnson: I shall never seek so much to be consoled as to console
[5/13/2017 1:46:56 PM] Alexandre Orion: I shall never seek so much to be consoled as to console
[5/13/2017 1:47:07 PM] Peter Kis: I shall never seek so much to be consoled as to console
[5/13/2017 1:47:08 PM] Bart: I shall never seek so much to be consoled as to console;
[5/13/2017 1:47:20 PM] Carlos Mar: I shall never seek so much to be consoled as to console
[5/13/2017 1:47:39 PM] Rosalyn Johnson: To be understood as to understand
[5/13/2017 1:47:41 PM] Alexandre Orion: To be understood as to understand
[5/13/2017 1:47:45 PM] Peter Kis: To be understood as to understand
[5/13/2017 1:47:47 PM] Bart: To be understood as to understand;
[5/13/2017 1:48:20 PM] Rosalyn Johnson: To be loved as to love
[5/13/2017 1:48:21 PM] Alexandre Orion: To be loved as to Love
[5/13/2017 1:48:27 PM] Bart: To be loved as to love;
[5/13/2017 1:48:28 PM] Peter Kis: To be loved as to love
[5/13/2017 1:48:31 PM] Carlos Mar: To be understood as to understand
[5/13/2017 1:48:36 PM] Carlos Mar: To be loved as to love
[5/13/2017 1:49:20 PM] Rosalyn Johnson: For it is in giving that we receive
[5/13/2017 1:49:23 PM] Alexandre Orion: For it is in giving that we receive
[5/13/2017 1:49:30 PM] Bart: For it is in giving that we receive;
[5/13/2017 1:49:31 PM] Peter Kis: For it is in giving that we receive
[5/13/2017 1:49:39 PM] Carlos Mar: To be understood as to understand
[5/13/2017 1:50:17 PM] Rosalyn Johnson: It is in pardoning that we are pardoned
[5/13/2017 1:50:19 PM] Alexandre Orion: It is in pardoning that we are pardoned
[5/13/2017 1:50:20 PM] Bart: It is in pardoning that we are pardoned;
[5/13/2017 1:50:27 PM] Peter Kis: It is in pardoning that we are pardoned
[5/13/2017 1:51:17 PM] Rosalyn Johnson: and it is in death that we are born to eternal life
[5/13/2017 1:51:20 PM] Carlos Mar: It is in pardoning that we are pardoned
[5/13/2017 1:51:22 PM] Bart: And it is in dying that we are born to eternal life.
[5/13/2017 1:51:25 PM] Carlos Mar: and it is in death that we are born to eternal life
[5/13/2017 1:51:26 PM] Alexandre Orion: And it is in dying that we are born to eternal life
[5/13/2017 1:51:37 PM] Peter Kis: and it is in death that we are born to eternal life
[5/13/2017 1:52:06 PM] Rosalyn Johnson: the Force is with me always for I am a Jedi
[5/13/2017 1:52:09 PM] Alexandre Orion: The Force is always with me, for I am a Jedi
[5/13/2017 1:52:09 PM] Bart: The Force is with me always, for I am a Jedi.
[5/13/2017 1:52:11 PM] *** Group call ***
[5/13/2017 1:52:12 PM] *** Missed group call. ***
[5/13/2017 1:52:24 PM] Carlos Mar: The Force is with me always, for I am a Jedi.
[5/13/2017 1:52:24 PM] Peter Kis: The Force is with me always, for I am a Jedi
[5/13/2017 1:53:00 PM] Carlos Mar: Phones acting up so sorry
[5/13/2017 1:53:28 PM] Bart: No worries Carlos! Phones are weird things indeed..
[5/13/2017 1:53:46 PM] Rosalyn Johnson: May tre Force be with you all
[5/13/2017 1:53:52 PM] Bart: And so with you.
[5/13/2017 1:54:01 PM] Peter Kis: and with you Ros
[5/13/2017 1:54:06 PM] Rosalyn Johnson: meeting adjourned