Trying this again.

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4 years 7 months ago #342409 by
Trying this again. was created by
Okay so my last post didn't go so well and I learned nothing and basically created a breeding ground for arguments. SO with that being said. WHAT IS THE FORCE. No arguing no bullshit just simply what you believe the force is or if there is a "General" or "basic" belief of what the force is.

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4 years 7 months ago #342410 by JamesSand
Replied by JamesSand on topic Trying this again.
If You Want Different Results, You Have to Try Different Approaches - Obi-Wan Kenobi

What we told you was true, from a certain point of view - Mark Twain
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4 years 7 months ago #342418 by Gisteron
Replied by Gisteron on topic Trying this again.
Did you not get plenty of responses to that last time? What's missing? You are not alone. We get to talk with each other, too, even if that's not what you intended when opening the thread.

Better to leave questions unanswered than answers unquestioned
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4 years 7 months ago #342421 by Brick
Replied by Brick on topic Trying this again.

Kazat0 wrote: So like what is this place, or rather is the force really as in the movies like. Can you use it to influence or use telekinesis? Or what even is the force? I'm an atheist but I think there might be a sort of energy/force we don't know about yet and can't explain until later (like midiclorians in SW)


In the IP, Lesson 8, Essay 5, asks us to write what we think about 'The Force'. Reading this lesson in people's journals may be a good place to get an idea of what people believe.

Initially I thought it close to impossible to accurately describe my thoughts on The Force. To attempt any kind of real description would, IMO, mislead. Whatever answer I give, it is likely to be wrong. I am bad enough at finding words to explain what I mean, but to use a finite number of words to describe something which is infinitely indescribable? Buggeration :laugh:

Its also very difficult to explain things that really have to be observed/experienced purely in words. For example, WW2 children in the UK were evacuated from the cities to live in the country, many of these children had never seen farm animals before and so wrote letters home describing them. One boy famously described a cow as looking like a

milk-carton on its side with four legs and a brush for a tail.


Now I personally don’t think that’s a very good description of a cow. I would said it looks like a fat black and white horse. Then again, if these people hadn’t seen cows before, maybe they hadn’t seen horses either. So, a really big, less hairy, black and white dog? That doesn’t really sum up what a cow is, does it? :laugh:

Though perhaps I’m being a tad unfair, I did actually find what I think is quite a good description by another child evacuee:

The cow is a mammal. It has six sides, right, left upper and below. At the back it has a tail on which hangs a brush. With this it sends flies away so they do not fall into the milk. The head is for the purpose of growing horns and so that the mouth can be somewhere. The horns are to butt with and the mouth is to moo with. Under the cow hangs the milk. It is arranged for milking. When people milk the milk comes and there is never an end to the supply. How the cow does it I have not realised but it makes more and more. The cow has a fine sense of smell; one can smell it far away. This is the reason for fresh air in the country. The man cow is called an ox. It is not a mammal. The cow does not eat much, but what it eats, it eats twice so that it gets enough. When it is hungry it moos and when it says nothing it is because it is all full up with grass.


My point is that these descriptions, no matter how good, conjure up very different images of what a cow looks like, but they’re all describing the same thing. And this is what happens when someone tries to describe what The Force is. You’ll get an infinite number of answers that conjure up totally different images in one’s mind, even though these descriptions are all talking about the same thing. They’re attempting to describe something that is indescribable, and they’ll all be warped in some way by our thoughts and pre-conceptions. It doesn’t matter how accurate a description one may be able to provide, it’ll never be quite there.

It’s the same with the name. I look at it’s name as any other word, just in different languages. For example a dog in English is ‘dog’, in German it is ‘Hund’ and in French ‘chien’. It doesn’t matter what we call it, it’s still the same thing. That too applies to The Force. We can call it ‘The Force’, ‘God’, ‘The Tao’ etc. It’s still all the same thing (though perhaps interpreted slightly differently). But ultimately its just a name for something that does not have a name.

The Force transcends words and thought.

Perhaps the best way to explain my understanding is to pinch Sonya’s from the ‘Mindwalk’ Lesson earlier on in the IP. Now, I am no physicist, but the descriptions of how one part of a system depends on that of another, how these things around us seamlessly blend and connect and change slowly together over time, all depending on one thing, which depends on something else, and on and on. That just makes sense to me. I can see it in patterns all around and within me.

I have never really considered the idea of the earth as a giant organism until watching Mindwalk. For me, to talk about The Force is to talk about that ‘connection’ to that giant living, breathing THING that we all are together. Like Watts’s ‘cat through the fence’ example, event ‘head’ does not lead to event ‘tail’. Its all ‘Cat’, just as I/you/cat/dog/earth are all ‘One’ or ‘All’. I don't feel that ‘All’ forms a sentient or has a secret plan for our lives or some meaningful destiny that it's taking us towards. I don't believe you can pray to it, it can’t hear you (and even if it could, it couldn’t do anything). I don't believe that it is guiding us in any particular way. But I have no choice but to be connected to it through The Force because it's part of what we all are. To suggest otherwise would be like a limb claiming to be a separate entity to the body. I can however become ‘in tune’ (for want of a better phrase) with ‘All’. Be as one with my surroundings. I’m not entirely sure how yet, but I think that over time I will come to know this.

Or perhaps its all just Dark Matter



:laugh:

We shall see

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4 years 7 months ago #342486 by Manu
Replied by Manu on topic Trying this again.

Kazat0 wrote: Okay so my last post didn't go so well and I learned nothing and basically created a breeding ground for arguments.


Welcome to the internet.

The pessimist complains about the wind;
The optimist expects it to change;
The realist adjusts the sails.
- William Arthur Ward
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4 years 7 months ago #342558 by
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Manu wrote:

Kazat0 wrote: Okay so my last post didn't go so well and I learned nothing and basically created a breeding ground for arguments.


Welcome to the internet.


Lol good point

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4 years 7 months ago #342560 by
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I'm just not willing to put effort into some church or Jediism if I don't even have a grasp of the force or even know HOW to have a grasp of the force. I'm really asking for yall's help on this and every day I seriously contemplate the dark side as an alternative for answers.

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4 years 7 months ago #342565 by Amaya
Replied by Amaya on topic Trying this again.
If your not willing to put in the effort and just want answers on a plate then neither here or Sith forums are going to help you.
You will come to a personal understanding of the force through learning, seeking out answers and maybe looking through the sermons here.
There is no easy answer and its better that way.
Would you blindly follow someones opinion on what the force is?
There are many perspectives here on site if you dig around.
Too lazy to do so, then you will learn nothing.

People are trying to help
But you have to help yourself as well
No one gets spoon fed here
Start the IP, make a journal for your thoughts
You may surprise yourself with what you find

Everything is belief
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4 years 7 months ago #342567 by Manu
Replied by Manu on topic Trying this again.

Kazat0 wrote: I'm just not willing to put effort into some church or Jediism


You don’t serve it. It serves you.

I don't even have a grasp of the force or even know HOW to have a grasp of the force. I'm really asking for yall's help on this and every day I seriously contemplate the dark side as an alternative for answers.


This got interesting.

While it was a bit obvious you were fishing for a specific answer in your previous thread, it wasn’t clear exactly why. It now appears that your “why” extends beyond the philosophical and into the pragmatic.

So my question is: “what do you need the Force (or Jediism, or the Dark Side for that matter) for?

Exploring that question might lead us into a more useful line of questioning.

The pessimist complains about the wind;
The optimist expects it to change;
The realist adjusts the sails.
- William Arthur Ward
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4 years 7 months ago #342570 by
Replied by on topic Trying this again.
-shrug- Learning is part of the experience, here, you've gotten answers, I'm sorry it frustrates you to the point of becoming upset for not liking them. I'm not going to lie, you seem to me, more frustrated that we are not especially invested in "converting" you. We're not going to tell you what you want to hear.

If you simply don't feel Jediism is right for you, than it probably isn't. We do not presume to make that decision for you, even if you subtly want us to try. We did not bring you here in the hopes of converting you, you came to this place on your own. Whether or not this place has anything to offer of value to you is also on you.

But, rather than demand us to convince you, you might try reading through the FAQ and similar introductory information that is readily available from the main page, even without registering.

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