- Posts: 2014
What is the force?
“Your Ancestors Called it Magic, but You Call it Science. I Come From a Land Where They Are One and the Same.”
― Thor Odinson
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So you telling me "it can be whatever you want" doesn't actually answer the question.
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No. What wiccans/witches practice are rituals. Those have been invented aplenty, for sure. Woo-woo has been asserted, too, and, somehow, the better ways we find to document events the fewer instances of sorcery do we record. We have discovered so much at this point, that what room is left for the magical powers asserted back in the day is so small as to demonstrably be of no significance to our daily lives.Kazat0 wrote: magickal powers HAVE been discovered and many wiccans/witches practice it.
No, they really couldn't. We would have long modelled them by now if they could. "Explanation" may mean a lot of things, but the least we would have at this point is the postulation of their existence and mechanisms by which they can be manipulated so as to fix the magnitude of their influence on observable events. What we have instead is an ever more refined model of nature the gaps in which are so small at this pont as to leave no room for anything of daily significance.I was saying maybe those powers could be true but it has a scientific explanation we don't know yet.
Friendly reminder that not every comic book out there is an accurate record of real people or events...“Your Ancestors Called it Magic, but You Call it Science. I Come From a Land Where They Are One and the Same.”
― Thor Odinson
Better to leave questions unanswered than answers unquestioned
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Mind and Heart, Masculine and Feminine, Adam and Eve.. what difference is there?..
What is "The Force".. it's everything.. It Is.. material and beyond material.. Fullness and the cause of It..
As far as telekinesis, or other supernatural concepts in general, it'd be better to ask why it wouldn't exist.. or why do we start from the position that these things are definitively false?.. which isn't truly a neutral position..
Personally, I'm certain these things are possible and is merely a different science.. though in the "Age of Two Fish".. the Natural and Supernatural are seen as opposites instead, and the unified reality goes unseen..
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If we were only now starting to investigate the question, starting from either position would be slightly unfair, admittedly. I say slightly, because there is a case to be made for employing the null hypothesis until further notice. Alas, we are not only now starting to investigate claims of telekinesis or the supernatural more broadly, and the evidence against such things has been piling up for quite some time now, to a point where even "reasonable doubt" is becoming increasingly laughable. It is not the "things themselves" that are false, mind you, only about every claim made to them. The simplest explanation to why all these claims keep consistently failing so far seems to be that there is no substance to them, but it may of course in principle be some convoluted nefarious trick the universe is playing on us all to deceive us into thinking that it is all nonsense when it really isn't. I for one choose to go with the simpler explanation and wait for the data set to grow more consistent with an alternative one...Uzima Moto wrote: As far as telekinesis, or other supernatural concepts in general, it'd be better to ask why it wouldn't exist.. or why do we start from the position that these things are definitively false?.. which isn't truly a neutral position..
Better to leave questions unanswered than answers unquestioned
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Science works not by necessarily proving something is right, but by making explanatory mechanisms that have predictive power and testing that against experimental evidence. Because of that reliance on experimental evidence, it isn't objective in the same sense as math: I mean you can't find the pure number 5 in nature. I've yet to hear any well-conceived experiment involving magic that falsifies the current scientific understanding. This doesn't necessarily preclude magic (the absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence), but practically it does (I mean, I don't believe in the tooth fairy)
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TM: Carlos Martinez
"A serious and good philosophical work could be written consisting entirely of jokes" - Wittgenstein
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Gisteron wrote:
If we were only now starting to investigate the question, starting from either position would be slightly unfair, admittedly. I say slightly, because there is a case to be made for employing the null hypothesis until further notice. Alas, we are not only now starting to investigate claims of telekinesis or the supernatural more broadly, and the evidence against such things has been piling up for quite some time now, to a point where even "reasonable doubt" is becoming increasingly laughable. It is not the "things themselves" that are false, mind you, only about every claim made to them. The simplest explanation to why all these claims keep consistently failing so far seems to be that there is no substance to them, but it may of course in principle be some convoluted nefarious trick the universe is playing on us all to deceive us into thinking that it is all nonsense when it really isn't. I for one choose to go with the simpler explanation and wait for the data set to grow more consistent with an alternative one...Uzima Moto wrote: As far as telekinesis, or other supernatural concepts in general, it'd be better to ask why it wouldn't exist.. or why do we start from the position that these things are definitively false?.. which isn't truly a neutral position..
Fair enough, however, I'm not sure all claims that could be made have been, nor that all claims made have been debunked for certain yet..
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Kazat0 wrote: Alethea finally a real answer i wanted peoples opinions about what it is. not dodging the question by saying "we don't know" i wanted to hear what people believed it was
I for one did not "dodge" your question. Why is "I dont know" not an acceptable answer? Is your goal here to listen to different explanations and then just pick one that sounds good to you to believe? If so that is an incredibly lazy and inefficient way to gain knowledge.
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rugadd
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