Is tribalism a problem we should be attacking?

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09 Aug 2019 22:46 - 09 Aug 2019 22:48 #341128 by VixensVengeance
Recently here the suggestion was made that tribalism was a problem we need to be attacking. Now by we I'm not sure the poster meant other Jedi or humanity in general. But of course there was a dissenting opinion to this comment that I tend to agree with. In that light I wanted to present this question to the general audience.

Is tribalism a problem we need to be attacking? Why or why not?

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Last edit: 09 Aug 2019 22:48 by VixensVengeance.
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09 Aug 2019 23:23 - 09 Aug 2019 23:26 #341132 by JamesSand
What is tribalism?



Edit: To clarify, obviously I can read. At the time I didn't want to use all the words it would take to write "Could you please define Tribalism, for the purposes of this question, or in the context it was originally given?"

but then I remembered, this place scores points on how much it sounds like you paid for your education, so I didn't want to just be given a link to the word "tribalism" on google dictionary for asking "what is tribalism?"
Last edit: 09 Aug 2019 23:26 by JamesSand.
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09 Aug 2019 23:26 - 09 Aug 2019 23:32 #341133 by VixensVengeance

JamesSand wrote: What's tribalism?


Im asking you, what is it and why or why not should "we" be attacking it?

EDIT right back: How do you define it?

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Last edit: 09 Aug 2019 23:32 by VixensVengeance.

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09 Aug 2019 23:29 - 09 Aug 2019 23:34 #341134 by JamesSand
Oh, okay, in that case, I bow out of the discussion.

It's 9am on a Saturday, and at no point this morning, or even this week did I wonder about the evils of tribalism so I'm pretty sure I have no active or relevant views on it, in the context of I have to also think of the problem in order to determine how to address it.

It's winter, and I'm not busy, so if this gets spicy and there are definitions left right and centre by the time the cold sets in tonight, perhaps I can interject something pithy, or at least a non sequitur, for the lulz.
Last edit: 09 Aug 2019 23:34 by JamesSand.

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09 Aug 2019 23:33 #341135 by VixensVengeance
What I surmise you saying is that you have never considered it a problem to be "attacked" then?

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09 Aug 2019 23:37 - 09 Aug 2019 23:39 #341137 by JamesSand
Surmise whatever you like, as far as I can tell you have not asked a question, so I've not given an answer.

(well you have asked a question, that question seems to be "can anyone else use tribalism in a sentence?")

rather than "I define tribalism as [X] and this is (or is not) conducive to a successful individual/society outcome for [X] reasons - do you concur/differ? how can we reach a meaningful understanding taking into consideration any and all valid points?"


Edit: If for whatever reason you want to create this conversation, but have no skin in the game personally, can you at least quote the "recent suggestion" so anyone turning up for try outs at least knows what sport we are playing?
Last edit: 09 Aug 2019 23:39 by JamesSand.
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09 Aug 2019 23:41 - 09 Aug 2019 23:41 #341138 by VixensVengeance
I put no prequalifiers on the term. That is the point. In such a case I am not at liberty to define it. Im asking you to define what you think it means and why it is either a bad thing or a good thing. It was never defined for me in the original comment and so I cannot provide that definition to you.

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Last edit: 09 Aug 2019 23:41 by VixensVengeance.

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09 Aug 2019 23:43 #341139 by VixensVengeance

JamesSand wrote:

Edit: If for whatever reason you want to create this conversation, but have no skin in the game personally, can you at least quote the "recent suggestion" so anyone turning up for try outs at least knows what sport we are playing?


Sure, I can do that.

www.templeofthejediorder.org/forum/Initi...rson?start=80#341110

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10 Aug 2019 00:02 - 10 Aug 2019 00:07 #341141 by JamesSand
Well I suppose we can all stand around twiddling our thumbs and eyeing off the buffet table until Manu turns up, but I'd take a punt and say he's referring to what he sees as mobs forming around...almost nothing, their main defining factor is that they are not "those other mobs" and people being more attached to being in an in-group and attacking an out-group than in improvement of themselves or their situation. The "defining" factor seems to be mud-slinging at other tribes.


if I'm on the money (ish) there - then I do have a problem with this, in a specific fashion - being my country's government.

We have numerous parties, with "seats" - now at the moment (and often in the past) no one party has a controlling number of seats, so they need the agreement of other seats to get a majority vote on any issue.

This would be a good thing - it means any changes to the country need to get the agreement of multiple people that are (arguably) philosophically of different mindsets.

HOWEVER - what actually happens is they are all to busy making sure everyone sees that they DON'T AGREE on any matter, to preserve their apparently independent viewpoints, and the "respect" of their constituents, that no good changes really ever come of it, because even if two parties more or less agree, and propose almost identical acts or amendments, it is so important (for tribalism?) that they don't agree with each other enough to pass a decision or vote for each others ideas - that a third (usually worse in my view, but that's a matter of own political preferences and not objective) option is usually implemented.


I think it is a problem - this sort of group-identity-without-purpose issue, but I do not know how to attack it.
You can't just form a new group of free-thinkers and call all the other groups wrong. For what would seem to be very obvious reasons.

You have to change an entire culture, the internet would seem to have made it worse, but it is not exactly a novel concept, protestant vs catholic is almost too obvious an example, and I don't like to include religious groups - but the comparison may be accurate, as the fervor with which many attach themselves to their "tribe" and attack other tribes is possibly comparable to strong belief in a higher-purpose, or divine mandate.....
Last edit: 10 Aug 2019 00:07 by JamesSand.
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10 Aug 2019 00:32 - 10 Aug 2019 00:34 #341146 by VixensVengeance
Interesting points James. I am drawn in particular to your comment about Catholic vs Protestant. (mostly because I know very little about Australian govt) What about other types of tribes, Republican vs democrat or nation vs nation or rich vs poor as other examples. Is it feasible to bring these disparate groups together, as you mention, but how would we do that without creating a new tribe? Or is it better that these groups exist and thrive and the strongest side eventually win out over the other... or alternatively, each side continue to take turns in its victories and thus sustaining some sort of back and forth balance in accordance with their particular social or political structures?

Its easy to say we need to attack tribalism, but not so easy to execute it seems. Without that plan it seems like complaining without providing a solution.

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Last edit: 10 Aug 2019 00:34 by VixensVengeance.

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