Purpose

Kyrin Wyldstar wrote:

Uzima Moto wrote: There is real good and evil in this world. It isn't entirely subjective..

Can you demonstrate that evil is an absolute or even an objective concept?

Increasing suffering of something is evil IMO, and in terms of action when done without consent. That is objective in the sense its action of suffering, be it psychological or physical, can be measured with current tech on the basis of biology. Can include thought, but most manifest as action. By definition requires knowledge of the effect... so not accidental.

The opposite being compassion, ie efforts to decrease suffering.

The concepts of good and bad in that context though, in comparison seem entirely subjective. For example making someone suffer might be good for the sadist but bad for the victim. Or another example is good for the sadist and good for the masochist. Or another example it might be either good or bad for the torturer and bad or good for the victim :S

So then you agree its completely subjective.

This is a subject that I've spent much time contemplating and I find pleasure discussing. I must say however that some of the replies are discouraging and off -putting to a member as new as myself.

With that said, I feel that there is no purpose beyond that which is self imposed. The only real purpose of life is simply to find life's purpose. And this can change as circumstances change.

While I was in the military, my purpose was to defend my country and family.Once I left the military my purpose changed into attempting to inform people about my countrie's encroaching on their rights. I am now in prison because of this and my purpose has once again changed. Now my purpose is to defend those who cannot defend themselves.

I feel no supreme calling. I simply chose a purpose that fit my situation. And my purposes are wholly selfish. I don't know that I once ever committed a selfless act. Doing good and protecting others makes me feel good and this is the only reason I do it. Every time i get a black eye, busted nose, or sprained joint ,I feel good about what I did and walk on cloud 9 until I heal. I feel good about overcoming fear and fulfilling my purpose. Selfish though it may be in motive.

And I think everyone must find that purpose that fits their circumstances. But surely if a purpose can be found and fulfilled by a man bound in chains, one can be found and fulfilled by someone in a world full of life and possibilities.

No, I don't suggest finding a purpose that puts you in harms way. Being in prison is a unique circumstance to say the least. But find something that brings joy, light, and compassion to others and I think youll likely not go wrong.

Kailek wrote: This is a subject that I've spent much time contemplating and I find pleasure discussing. I must say however that some of the replies are discouraging and off -putting to a member as new as myself.

With that said, I feel that there is no purpose beyond that which is self imposed. The only real purpose of life is simply to find life's purpose. And this can change as circumstances change.

While I was in the military, my purpose was to defend my country and family.Once I left the military my purpose changed into attempting to inform people about my countries's encroaching on their rights. I am now in prison because of this and my purpose has once again changed. Now my purpose is to defend those who cannot defend themselves.

I feel no supreme calling. I simply chose a purpose that fit my situation. And my purposes are wholly selfish. I don't know that I once ever committed a selfless act. Doing good and protecting others makes me feel good and this is the only reason I do it. Every time i get a black eye, busted nose, or sprained joint ,I feel good about what I did and walk on cloud 9 until I heal. I feel good about overcoming fear and fulfilling my purpose. Selfish though it may be in motive.

And I think everyone must find that purpose that fits their circumstances. But surely if a purpose can be found and fulfilled by a man bound in chains, one can be found and fulfilled by someone in a world full of life and possibilities.

No, I don't suggest finding a purpose that puts you in harms way. Being in prison is a unique circumstance to say the least. But find something that brings joy, light, and compassion to others and I think youll likely not go wrong.

um... I may be alone here but you sound pretty heroic to me. First... imho you're right. Our purpose is to find our own purpose. Secondly, I see no greater purpose than sacrificing self for the sake of others. That is about as "divine" as you can get without being a liar. Thirdly, man your life could be a video game. I'm glad you've come through it and still living to tell the story. And you must have a lot of stories to tell. I look forward to hearing some. Welcome to TOTJO.

Kyrin Wyldstar wrote: So then you agree its completely subjective.

Not in the slightest, IMO

"I feel no supreme calling. I simply chose a purpose that fit my situation. And my purposes are wholly selfish. I don't know that I once ever committed a selfless act. Doing good and protecting others makes me feel good and this is the only reason I do it. Every time i get a black eye, busted nose, or sprained joint ,I feel good about what I did and walk on cloud 9 until I heal. I feel good about overcoming fear and fulfilling my purpose. Selfish though it may be in motive."

This is an absolutely beautiful statement my friend, it is a key. Now, the thing that is important to look at, selfishness is part of being human and not necessarily a bad thing. Part of the selfishness is to survive, so hopefully you are not putting yourself in situations you are going to be killed in. Both, metaphorically and in your situation real. Unfortunately, we all have to operate in a organized, kinda crappy system to survive as a group. We have to play by some rules to survive, IMHO when calling puts a permanent sentence to the negative is in fact pushing you to a point where you can help less people. Now, every ripple matters, yours included, letting searching for purpose or absolutely trying to fill the purpose you defined blind you is a dangerous thing.

Just a humble opinion and comment, I look forward to some good conversations man.
Much Love, Respect and Peace,
Kobos

You flatter me with your words zealotX. But I assure you that I'm no hero. Besides, one man's hero is another man's villain. I am in prison afterall; as misguided as they may be in their perceptions in placing me here.

You struck me with your profound statement about the greatest purpose being the sacrifice of yourself for another. This is also something that I ponder almost daily. It is a central part of the self imposed purpose that I adopted. I agree with you and could think of no more honorable of a death than this. I would count myself fortunate for the opportunity.. ... but could I? That's the question I ask. I have grave doubts about what decission I'll make with death staring me in the face. Oh sure..for family members or a fellow Marine on the battlefield. I've almost died for these ...but what about a stranger? Though I would love to puff my chest out and give an altruistic yes, the truth is that I don't know. I doubt myself.

My understanding of Jedi teachings is that there is no you and I, only us. That we are all interconnected. And by giving up familial attachment, I should love all mankind as I love my brother or mother, in turn making sacrifice for strangers easy. In practice, I struggle with breaking the bonds of attachment and ultimately may falter given the chance to fulfill the greatest of purposes. I suppose failures in myself such as this is the exact reasons I joined here. I see alot of combined wisdom that could be very beneficial and I'm excited to learn anything I can.

"I MHO when calling puts a permanent sentence to the negative is in fact pushing you to a point where you can help less people. Now, every ripple matters, yours included, letting searching for purpose or absolutely trying to fill the purpose you defined blind you is a dangerous thing."

You are absolutely right Kobos. Perhaps I've already erred just as you say. Possibly destroying any ability to make a difference out there in the real world. But I suppose I should focus on doing what I can now, rather than dwell on the past. But your words are a sound warning.

As far as putting ourselves in danger... I suppose death awaits us at every corner. Any day we could get hit by a car, get cancer, or any of the 10,000 ways to die. I know nothing about you but I know impending death is something we have in common.

In 100 years no one will know or care that I existed. Perhaps we don't share this, but I choose to step outside of the bounds of safety for the sake of fulfilling the purpose. Once again its selfishly motivated because I fear looking back at my life as an old man and regretting decisions made based on cowardice or self preservation.

Now, I agree with you. What you say is based on reason. These are just decisions I make based on personal fears and flaws.

We all do it's a good thing. And believe me I relate to not wanting to look back and only see the shitty parts of my life that I made for myself and others out of my own selfishness.

Much Love, Respect and Peace,
Kobos