Purpose

More
03 Jun 2019 19:09 - 03 Jun 2019 19:10 #339188 by Kyrin Wyldstar
Replied by Kyrin Wyldstar on topic Purpose

ZealotX wrote: But in order to fully see the Force and it's effect you need to somewhat empty your cup. Because if you think you have something to teach but not to learn (and thus minimizing the role of the IP and the training from established knights) then you're shutting off the power and potential of the Force to work through the IP and the knights to guide you to knowledge you do not currently possess.


This is really the heart of matter right here. If one is so open to knowledge and has a passion for teaching what is all this resistance to submitting yourself to the possibility of growth through a learning process? Sure titles and such are artificial constructs, but the work is not. Its about the work. Show you can do the work, even welcome the work and the respect will follow.

This guns for hire, even if we're just dancing in the dark.
My Journals: Kyrin-Wyldstar

Associate Degree of Divinity - Earned July, 2017
Apprenticed to: Alan, Senan, Mendalicious
Tribute to Senan: My Friend
Last edit: 03 Jun 2019 19:10 by Kyrin Wyldstar.
The following user(s) said Thank You: ZealotX

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
03 Jun 2019 20:05 #339194 by LTK
Replied by LTK on topic Purpose
"All that matters is the Force, its power, its purpose."

"I want only to serve the Force"

I can go on a long explanation about the purpose of life, my views on it, etc. but I ended up deleting my response after rereading your OP and focusing on those two statements you said that I quoted above.

How do you know the Force wants to be served? How do you know the Force has a purpose?

Perhaps part of the anguish you're feeling right now could rightly stem from how you came to believe the Force wants to be served and has a purpose to begin with?

Master: Jestor
τελευταία ευκαιρία
The following user(s) said Thank You: Carlos.Martinez3, Kobos, Kyrin Wyldstar

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
04 Jun 2019 05:17 - 04 Jun 2019 05:17 #339217 by Carlos.Martinez3
Replied by Carlos.Martinez3 on topic Purpose

Kyrin Wyldstar wrote:

ZealotX wrote: But in order to fully see the Force and it's effect you need to somewhat empty your cup. Because if you think you have something to teach but not to learn (and thus minimizing the role of the IP and the training from established knights) then you're shutting off the power and potential of the Force to work through the IP and the knights to guide you to knowledge you do not currently possess.


This is really the heart of matter right here. If one is so open to knowledge and has a passion for teaching what is all this resistance to submitting yourself to the possibility of growth through a learning process? Sure titles and such are artificial constructs, but the work is not. Its about the work. Show you can do the work, even welcome the work and the respect will follow.



Funny- me and the wife were talking about just this. As Knights do we lead or tell individuals what to do here? It is my constant return to remind myself , and I’m sure I know I share this with others here - that it’s. I thing from ME. Self reflective is from the individual. I would get so upset when I went thru my apprentice and the IP that I couldn’t get a strait answer. Never. Till I realized that the questions AND the answers can only come from - me- for - me. The hope I have is when teaching or guiding or even just chit chatting here on the forum and even in pms is that - our faith is finding our own faith - rarely telling overs what I believe - nope - it’s helping others find their own paths and ways and practices - like I found my own. Never exactly like my own but simply they can find their own or even make their own. The question often pops in “ what are we teaching here...” and I often hope that the answer is never what I know ... or what some one else knows but what can YOU as the individual Jeddist - can find. The purpose - as the OP states is to each of us —-
Joseph Campbell said one time : Life has no meaning. Each of us has meaning and we bring it to life. It is a waste to be asking the question when you are the answer.
Shameless plug
www.templeofthejediorder.org/forum/Clerg...ock?start=320#339169
May the Force continue to be with us all!

Contact The Clergy
Pastor of Temple of the Jedi Order
This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
The Block
Build, not tear down.
Nosce te ipsum / Cerca trova
Last edit: 04 Jun 2019 05:17 by Carlos.Martinez3.
The following user(s) said Thank You: ZealotX

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
04 Jun 2019 07:09 #339219 by Neaj Pa Bol
Replied by Neaj Pa Bol on topic Purpose

Carlos.Martinez3 wrote:

Funny- me and the wife were talking about just this. As Knights do we lead or tell individuals what to do here? It is my constant return to remind myself , and I’m sure I know I share this with others here - that it’s. I thing from ME. Self reflective is from the individual. I would get so upset when I went thru my apprentice and the IP that I couldn’t get a strait answer. Never. Till I realized that the questions AND the answers can only come from - me- for - me. The hope I have is when teaching or guiding or even just chit chatting here on the forum and even in pms is that - our faith is finding our own faith - rarely telling overs what I believe - nope - it’s helping others find their own paths and ways and practices - like I found my own. Never exactly like my own but simply they can find their own or even make their own. The question often pops in “ what are we teaching here...” and I often hope that the answer is never what I know ... or what some one else knows but what can YOU as the individual Jeddist - can find. The purpose - as the OP states is to each of us —-
Joseph Campbell said one time : Life has no meaning. Each of us has meaning and we bring it to life. It is a waste to be asking the question when you are the answer.
Shameless plug
www.templeofthejediorder.org/forum/Clerg...ock?start=320#339169
May the Force continue to be with us all!


What really anything comes down to is not who is right. No one is wrong. The path an individual takes is just that, their path. Seems that gets forgotten along the way here. Too many people focus on what they believe is the ultimate truth and try to tell others that their path is the right one, whether it be Spiritual, Religious, Scientific or no faith. Time to get off that train, focus on the Jedi Philosophy and instill it in ones own life and path. Don't worry about others, you will find like minded folks to comrade with in your Area of Belief or Ideals. Focus on that more than trying to change another's view whether you think it is right or wrong! the Philosophy of the Jedi Teachings fits into the life of any one persons views....


The following user(s) said Thank You: Carlos.Martinez3, Kobos

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
04 Jun 2019 14:24 #339230 by ZealotX
Replied by ZealotX on topic Purpose

Neaj Pa Bol wrote: What really anything comes down to is not who is right. No one is wrong. The path an individual takes is just that, their path. Seems that gets forgotten along the way here. Too many people focus on what they believe is the ultimate truth and try to tell others that their path is the right one, whether it be Spiritual, Religious, Scientific or no faith. Time to get off that train, focus on the Jedi Philosophy and instill it in ones own life and path. Don't worry about others, you will find like minded folks to comrade with in your Area of Belief or Ideals. Focus on that more than trying to change another's view whether you think it is right or wrong! the Philosophy of the Jedi Teachings fits into the life of any one persons views....


I don't know if I would go as far as saying no one is wrong. I think child molesters are wrong. It might be "a path" but it is a corrupt/wrong path. It may be right to them but for something to be "right" it also has to have the potential to be "wrong" (or "not right"). If someone said "I want to be POTUS" there is a path. You can't just shoot the current one and take his place. So people have to FIND the "right" path for them. Until they find it there are a lot of other paths they can take and some will be good and some will not be. But choosing one doesn't automatically speak good or evil of it. We can know it by its fruit.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Carlos.Martinez3, Kyrin Wyldstar

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
04 Jun 2019 16:10 #339233 by Kohadre
Replied by Kohadre on topic Purpose

Neaj Pa Bol wrote:
What really anything comes down to is not who is right.

Warning: Spoiler! [ Click to expand ]
.


With respect, I can't say I agree with the above.

Also, it seems there are a few contradicting (hypocritical) statements in your post. Within one paragraph,
Warning: Spoiler! [ Click to expand ]
you seem to claim that too many people focus on what they believe to be the "ultimate truth"; then claim that the Jedi philosophy itself it above other "paths"/structures/etc.

Also,
Warning: Spoiler! [ Click to expand ]


This statement doesn't seem to make sense either, as you seem to claim that the philosophy of Jedi teachings are somehow universally compatible with other belief systems/structures, while at the same time claiming that there is no objective right/wrong as far as such things go.

Also, I am in agreement with ZealotX. While there is no "universal" or otherwise divine and objective code of "right/wrong", there are actions and beliefs that are either widely condemned or endorsed by society based on the societal harm or benefit they are associated with. To say that there is no universal "wrong/right" is a grossly inappropriate blanket statement; as it (un)intentionally) excuses or otherwise endorses negative action such as rapists, pedophiles, murders, etc.

Our sense of right/wrong may be artificial and specific to certain cultures or regions, however that does not make it any less legitimately needed or required by society.

Remember the doctrine; embody the code.
Live the creed; embrace the 16 teachings.
Honor your vows.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Kyrin Wyldstar

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
05 Jun 2019 16:15 #339280 by Uzima Moto
Replied by Uzima Moto on topic Purpose
If you want to live according to The Force, live free and peaceful..

If you want to serve The Force, serve others before yourself..

Do not hate those that insult you (though you may get annoyed lol) but do not tolerate those who would enslave you..

Be wise a the serpent, but harmless like a dove..

Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem
By the sword we seek peace, but peace only under liberty.
The following user(s) said Thank You: ZealotX

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
05 Jun 2019 18:28 #339294 by Uzima Moto
Replied by Uzima Moto on topic Purpose
There is real good and evil in this world. It isn't entirely subjective..

Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem
By the sword we seek peace, but peace only under liberty.
The following user(s) said Thank You: ZealotX

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
05 Jun 2019 19:39 #339298 by TheDude
Replied by TheDude on topic Purpose

_Vergere_ wrote: My passion in life is to teach wisdom and philosophy to those willing who listen. And I know what most of you will say, I have to go through the IP, apprenticeship, knighthood, blah blah blah.

Actually, I'd suggest going for a philosophy ph.d. at a university so that you can get the accreditation necessary to do what you want (to teach wisdom and philosophy, literally "the love of wisdom") professionally and potentially reach many more people with your messages than just those in the Jedi community. Do the IP, apprenticeship, etc. if it will help you better understand Jediism and live the Jedi way. If you do not need that help, forget about the rank image, because -- as you said -- it is an artificial construct.

All that matters is the Force, its power, its purpose. While most rely on their ranks, I want only to feel the Force, to sense its push and pull, its guidance in my life.

I do not, personally, think that the Force has a purpose. It is ever-present. Choosing to commit a violent crime and choosing to give to charity are both actions in the Force. The Force is, in my view, impersonal and non-dualist; it does not judge, but through the Force both judgment and non-judgment are possible. To follow the Will of the Force is to allow a combination of intuition and rationality to guide your actions. It is to recognize possible outcomes, the factors which lead to those outcomes, and those things which you can do in order to bring about those factors (ergo, the outcomes). A butterfly may wish to move from your doorknob to your roof; in order to achieve its intended goal, it must flap its wings. To flap its wings, then, is the Will of the Force insofar as it pertains to the motion of the butterfly.

Epictetus said: "Don't demand that things happen as you wish, but wish that they happen as they do happen, and you will go on well."

My point was actually not to complain about my lack of purpose, but to comment on how we Jedi seem to have found purpose in ways that most do not. The average person, seeking only financial gain, to acquire more things, to buy the right car, the best house, create the perfect family... where does this lead? At the end of this hypothetical average person's life, what purpose has his or her aspirations fulfilled?

Each of those things are purposes, too. The pursuit of purpose may result in one saying, "It is my purpose to do (x) for my company, and it is my company's purpose to pay me for doing (x)". The accumulation of worldly goods may even serve a specific purpose, e.g. "It is my purpose to maximize my happiness and minimize discomfort while I am still alive, so working 9-5 helps me accomplish my purpose". Or, even, "It is my purpose to guarantee a comfortable life for my loved ones once I am dead, and so I must accumulate wealth in order to achieve that purpose".

Consider also that the achievement of purpose is not all-encompassing, as no such clear-cut purpose may actually exist. Moreover, what purpose does exist may be nothing more than an invention of discerning minds. It is also the case that certain determined purposes are not definitely good. The holocaust was a purposeful action, and Hitler may have considered genocide to be his purpose. So not all purposeful actions are good -- in fact, some are quite bad or even evil -- and some actions without such defined purpose are good or indifferent. We do not save a drowning child because it is our purpose to save drowning children, but because it is good (I hope all here can agree that saving drowning children is good). When we clean our already-clean glasses it does not help us to see any better, but it does no harm.

Don't get me wrong, I like money, I like to buy things, but I do not make it my main reason for living. I couldn't care less about the perfect car, house, wife, children, and so forth. I want only to serve the Force. It is the only thing in my life that has made me feel like I have a reason for being alive.

Ashtavakra said: "To be free, shun the experiences of the senses like poison. Turn your attention to forgiveness, sincerity, kindness, simplicity, truth."
Laozi said: “Simplicity, patience, compassion. These three are your greatest treasures. Simple in actions and thoughts, you return to the source of being. Patient with both friends and enemies, you accord with the way things are. Compassionate toward yourself, you reconcile all beings in the world.”
The following user(s) said Thank You: Maria, Uzima Moto

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
06 Jun 2019 03:00 #339309 by Kyrin Wyldstar
Replied by Kyrin Wyldstar on topic Purpose

Uzima Moto wrote: There is real good and evil in this world. It isn't entirely subjective..



Can you demonstrate that evil is an absolute or even an objective concept?

This guns for hire, even if we're just dancing in the dark.
My Journals: Kyrin-Wyldstar

Associate Degree of Divinity - Earned July, 2017
Apprenticed to: Alan, Senan, Mendalicious
Tribute to Senan: My Friend

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Moderators: KobosBrick