Purpose

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30 May 2019 16:33 #339075 by _Vergere_
Purpose was created by _Vergere_
Years ago, when I became detached from the Jedi community because I didn't agree with its direction, I started to wonder what my purpose in life was. There was nothing in particular that I could do that would help the world, or anyone I knew. I used to train people in the ways of the Force, but for some reason people stopped trusting me when I parted ways with the Jedi. Even when I came back, I found I no longer had a place, a purpose.

My passion in life is to teach wisdom and philosophy to those willing who listen. And I know what most of you will say, I have to go through the IP, apprenticeship, knighthood, blah blah blah. These artificial constructs that people have created have no meaning. All that matters is the Force, its power, its purpose. While most rely on their ranks, I want only to feel the Force, to sense its push and pull, its guidance in my life.

I am not offering to teach anyone, since I know that is not allowed here. My point was actually not to complain about my lack of purpose, but to comment on how we Jedi seem to have found purpose in ways that most do not. The average person, seeking only financial gain, to acquire more things, to buy the right car, the best house, create the perfect family... where does this lead? At the end of this hypothetical average person's life, what purpose has his or her aspirations fulfilled?

Don't get me wrong, I like money, I like to buy things, but I do not make it my main reason for living. I couldn't care less about the perfect car, house, wife, children, and so forth. I want only to serve the Force. It is the only thing in my life that has made me feel like I have a reason for being alive.

What are your thoughts on this? Do you share in my point of view?


Listen well: Everything I tell you is a lie. Every question I ask is a trick.
You will find no truth in me.

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30 May 2019 17:05 - 30 May 2019 17:09 #339079 by Kohadre
Replied by Kohadre on topic Purpose

_Vergere_ wrote: Years ago, when I became detached from the Jedi community because I didn't agree with its direction, I started to wonder what my purpose in life was. There was nothing in particular that I could do that would help the world, or anyone I knew. I used to train people in the ways of the Force, but for some reason people stopped trusting me when I parted ways with the Jedi. Even when I came back, I found I no longer had a place, a purpose.

My passion in life is to teach wisdom and philosophy to those willing who listen. And I know what most of you will say, I have to go through the IP, apprenticeship, knighthood, blah blah blah. These artificial constructs that people have created have no meaning. All that matters is the Force, its power, its purpose. While most rely on their ranks, I want only to feel the Force, to sense its push and pull, its guidance in my life.

I am not offering to teach anyone, since I know that is not allowed here. My point was actually not to complain about my lack of purpose, but to comment on how we Jedi seem to have found purpose in ways that most do not. The average person, seeking only financial gain, to acquire more things, to buy the right car, the best house, create the perfect family... where does this lead? At the end of this hypothetical average person's life, what purpose has his or her aspirations fulfilled?

Don't get me wrong, I like money, I like to buy things, but I do not make it my main reason for living. I couldn't care less about the perfect car, house, wife, children, and so forth. I want only to serve the Force. It is the only thing in my life that has made me feel like I have a reason for being alive.

What are your thoughts on this? Do you share in my point of view?


You seem to sound somewhat nihilistic, but in fairness your post reminds me of attitudes and beliefs I held years prior.

Warning: Spoiler! [ Click to expand ]


You seem to be placing yourself on a pedestal, claiming to have access to superior education and wisdom not privy to the common citizen. Also, your claim for the temples process being an "artificial construct" seems to indicate an inflated ego; unchecked arrogance.

All of human existence is an artificial; social "construct". I am not debating or denying that as I myself acknowledge the inherent truth of it. Regardless of that however, these systems, "constructs" and services that have been created over time have been so out of requirement for the services and efficiencies that they provide said cultures.

Whether or not something is a "construct" does not change the need the public has for it. If there was no prior need for it to exist, it would never have been created. Rarely are inventions, technologies, or cultural advancements made without a dire need existing for said change to occur. Otherwise, we would all likely still be wearing loin cloths and living in damp caves; had our ancestors considered it a vision of paradise.

Also, if you believe yourself to be the sole individual within society to have recognized such truths; or at least among a select few, I would recommend checking said ego.

Moving on..

Warning: Spoiler! [ Click to expand ]


The average persons goal is financial gain (independence), so that they can improve their quality of life. The common law of society tends to prohibit people running off to live in the woods/mountains/desert/etc, because they usually tend to either cause astronomical environmental damage (game laws, pollution, etc), or otherwise end up becoming gravely ill and perishing.

For the wisdom you claim to have, I'm sure you understand the sheer impossibility of one person having both the skill and capability to procure their own crops, provide their own medical care, produce their own clothing and furnishings, defend themselves from natural predators / localized disease, etc. This is why the division of labor exists as it is; and why society currently operates in the manner it does. There is less suffering created and experienced when individuals agree to produce specific goods/services and then trade other citizens for those goods/services within the form of currency.

Moving on; and lastly.

Warning: Spoiler! [ Click to expand ]


This is the same reason why there are a multitude of monastic orders throughout the world; spanning a complex variety of religions and denominations. While some seek to find purpose in their lives through family, proficiency within their profession, or engaging in charitable works; other's seek to find purpose through service to either their god, deity, or belief structure.

Neither is either more worthy or deserving of re-known than the other. Religious systems are not without reproach either, as indicated by catholic pedophile priests, Buddhist terrorists (yes, that's a thing), christian doomsday cults, etc.

Hopefully that provides you with what you were looking for, as well as some additional things you can reflect on and "see wisdom" within.

Remember the doctrine; embody the code.
Live the creed; embrace the 16 teachings.
Honor your vows.
Last edit: 30 May 2019 17:09 by Kohadre.
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30 May 2019 20:33 - 30 May 2019 20:37 #339087 by Kyrin Wyldstar
Replied by Kyrin Wyldstar on topic Purpose
There was another fellow here, coincidentally just before you joined, that felt as you do. I reference a few of his comments for general consumption.

www.templeofthejediorder.org/forum/open-...anctuary-moon#327068

www.templeofthejediorder.org/forum/open-...ity?start=130#327204

I personally do not share your thoughts nor your point of view. I wonder why you are so desperate to find "something" outside yourself that you need to define who you are? Jedi or no Jedi, who cares. Seeking financial gain can be a Jedi pursuit. For you it seems different though, so be it. But why do you come here asking for the validation of others. It seems a cry of desperation. A need to be validated because you feel worthless. Instead of this you just need to do you and not worry about what everyone else thinks. I would say that when you left the community you began to fail because you had previously used the community to justify who and what you were. And when you left, that confidence you got from that failed as well. People can see that and that's why they left you. Not because you were not in a community but because you were fake. Stop equating your self-worth to the validation of others in a community or a title or a badge. Thats all your doing right now and its obvious or you would not be so vehemently opposed to those concepts. What you need to do is do that deep soul search to find that worth you desire within yourself. Only then will you be a successful Jedi and even more so, a successful teacher.

This guns for hire, even if we're just dancing in the dark.
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30 May 2019 20:44 #339089 by JamesSand
Replied by JamesSand on topic Purpose

The average person, seeking only financial gain, to acquire more things, to buy the right car, the best house, create the perfect family... where does this lead? At the end of this hypothetical average person's life, what purpose has his or her aspirations fulfilled?


The average person (allowing a fairly vague use of them term "average") seeks not at all.

They can be pointed in a direction, and they might go that way for a bit, and when they've picked up enough shiny objects, someone else might convince them to swap those for this or that.
they might be convinced to go in different directions at different times, maybe they'll pick up pieces of paper. Maybe they'll pick up stories, maybe, as they see it, they'll pick up purposes. (a few very rare ones might pick up porpoises, and if you ask me, I think I'd rather talk to someone with a lot of porpoises than a lot of purposes)



Ask people how they got where they are and why. They'll either say they don't know, or come up with a lie.

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30 May 2019 22:16 #339092 by Adder
Replied by Adder on topic Purpose
Depends on the dominant imbalance within ourselves at any one time, which coud range within the blendings of our biology, psychology and social states, imo

Jou ~ Deg ~ Vlo ~ Sem ~ Mod ~ Med
TM: Grand Master Mark Anjuu

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31 May 2019 03:57 #339101 by Carlos.Martinez3
Replied by Carlos.Martinez3 on topic Purpose

_Vergere_ wrote: Years ago, when I became detached from the Jedi community because I didn't agree with its direction, I started to wonder what my purpose in life was. There was nothing in particular that I could do that would help the world, or anyone I knew. I used to train people in the ways of the Force, but for some reason people stopped trusting me when I parted ways with the Jedi. Even when I came back, I found I no longer had a place, a purpose.

My passion in life is to teach wisdom and philosophy to those willing who listen. And I know what most of you will say, I have to go through the IP, apprenticeship, knighthood, blah blah blah. These artificial constructs that people have created have no meaning. All that matters is the Force, its power, its purpose. While most rely on their ranks, I want only to feel the Force, to sense its push and pull, its guidance in my life.

I am not offering to teach anyone, since I know that is not allowed here. My point was actually not to complain about my lack of purpose, but to comment on how we Jedi seem to have found purpose in ways that most do not. The average person, seeking only financial gain, to acquire more things, to buy the right car, the best house, create the perfect family... where does this lead? At the end of this hypothetical average person's life, what purpose has his or her aspirations fulfilled?

Don't get me wrong, I like money, I like to buy things, but I do not make it my main reason for living. I couldn't care less about the perfect car, house, wife, children, and so forth. I want only to serve the Force. It is the only thing in my life that has made me feel like I have a reason for being alive.

What are your thoughts on this? Do you share in my point of view?



Each of us has a unique path to take. Every Jedi is as different as our very own fingerprints. I myself have a very unique dynamic that some can NOT have - not due to choice or even fault but - some folk can’t be a stay at home dad. That’s my choice and that’s my joy. Where we are at - at times- when we make that hard decision of devotion and direction can differ and will vary from person to person. Some can answer the missionary call for their faith - some are single some are not. Some are financially stable some arnt. So many variables in life it can be hard to single out one from another as -
Better or best. Some dynamics in life allow for travel and the sage - obviously - 2 kids and a wife for me limits this goal for me yet ... I find different ways. One goal can’t and will never be the same for some or even what we think is the ideal fit for us- won’t be for any one else. You may have that ability to do as you are called and be free to peruse it. Go! Take that chance or make that chance. I encourage you. Try. It may fit - it may not. I can’t take it myself- so my hope is that through Jedi ism we as individuals find our balance and our own faiths and strengthen them as we share with one another our wins and losses. What a day when we see Jedi of like faith and welcome them and share some wisdom and tea with them rather than discourage and put down for their choices. Here in THIS order we got rank and a privilege as with any organization but this should never limit any one person from sharing life’s fun and not so fun trials and joys with one another. You need no rank ever in life to lift or encourage any one ... ever. My in box is open almost always. May the Force continue to be with you.

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31 May 2019 04:01 #339102 by Proteus
Replied by Proteus on topic Purpose

Kyrin Wyldstar wrote: There was another fellow here, coincidentally just before you joined, that felt as you do. I reference a few of his comments for general consumption.

www.templeofthejediorder.org/forum/open-...anctuary-moon#327068

www.templeofthejediorder.org/forum/open-...ity?start=130#327204

I personally do not share your thoughts nor your point of view. I wonder why you are so desperate to find "something" outside yourself that you need to define who you are? Jedi or no Jedi, who cares. Seeking financial gain can be a Jedi pursuit. For you it seems different though, so be it. But why do you come here asking for the validation of others. It seems a cry of desperation. A need to be validated because you feel worthless. Instead of this you just need to do you and not worry about what everyone else thinks. I would say that when you left the community you began to fail because you had previously used the community to justify who and what you were. And when you left, that confidence you got from that failed as well. People can see that and that's why they left you. Not because you were not in a community but because you were fake. Stop equating your self-worth to the validation of others in a community or a title or a badge. Thats all your doing right now and its obvious or you would not be so vehemently opposed to those concepts. What you need to do is do that deep soul search to find that worth you desire within yourself. Only then will you be a successful Jedi and even more so, a successful teacher.


I'm sorry Kyrin... I don't believe these words are for you to hand Vergere here. In any case you wouldn't want someone to continue seeing you as a hypocrite of your own claimed philosophy would you? What was it? Something like "Don't dictate to others what they should be / do"? If you ask me, I might even have believed you would understand this philosophy if you would demonstrate why it is a good one. But you fail to show understanding in some seemingly important considerations here...

You are not Vegere, you have obvious limited knowledge of Vegere.

"Life truths" are wasted when issuing them on someone whose obviously not ready to hear/understand them.

A journey requires every step taken for the hero to learn for themselves what is true and what is not regarding who they are and what should matter most to them.

I understand that you would like to help Vegere here understand what must be going on with their personal involvement here, but what they have to learn will not and cannot be spelled out to them by a stranger on the internet. Whatever you're doing here is making you look like you are simply flaunting yourself about intellectually, because it can't be that you actually think that what you have said is here is going to go very far. After all, how many times have you replied doing this and it turns into 10 pages of circle jerking? I've always tried to take you for someone smarter than someone who keeps doing the same unsuccessful thing over and over just to expect the outcome to be different? The only thing left then seems to be the assumption that you indeed are simply replying here to get another shot at intellectual validation at the the expense of someone else's integrity. Would you call that something a Jedi would do? Hm.. Maybe a Jadaii Ranger... (I don't know much about them, so maybe that might be a thing there?)

Vegere, please excuse Kyrin, I dont think she really intends any harm. If any thing she has said is of offense, you are not obligated to engage, as we all know it will be aimless energy wasted on nitpicking semantics, misdirection, and an assortment of various fallacies. Otherwise, I won't distract your thread any longer. Apologies...

It seems that I know that I know.
What I would like to see is the 'I' that knows me when I know that I know that I know.
- Alan Watts
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31 May 2019 08:18 #339104 by Gisteron
Replied by Gisteron on topic Purpose
Maybe I too am still lacking the deep wisdom of some. I'd think that taking an almost perfectly healthy advice post as an opportunity to start personal attacks instead of providing either any substantive criticism of it or an elsewise worthwhile contribution to the thread is not a particularly noble way to spend one's time, but what do I know...

Anyway, with regards to the OP, I mostly second Kyrin's comment, at most with milder words, perhaps. I think it is a sad admission to say that wealth, health, or other sorts of well-being of yourself, people around you, or those that come after bears so little meaning to you and that you seek something above and beyond it in the first place. It is not a very often effect of religions, but it seems sometimes to be portrayed as a desirable, intended outcome, that one cease to care about life, or to see it as an end in and of itself, and instead devote oneself to the faith or its gods and spirits. No, some fifty thousand years from now none of the dollars you accumulate, none of the luxurious cars or comfortable homes you might purchase will have any noteworthy impact. Neither will any of the knowledge and wisdom you acquire, or the ties you weave to the Force, though. Nothing we do in this world will endure forever and there is no sense in which it makes any to say that we be going to any other upon passing. If this is what you seek, I regret to inform you that you are out of luck and may well be better off reforming those ambitions, because life will not bend quite this much to please any of us, alas. Uncaring and disobedient as it may be, I for one find it beautiful still, and deserving of all the love evolution has endowed us for it with. The most content we can get with the unfortunate reality of our mortality is by accepting it and making the best we can of it while we can still make anything of it at all. There is no satisfaction to be had in the pursuit of the fundamentally inaccessible. We are better off letting go of that desire we have never had a reason to grow to begin with.

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31 May 2019 18:36 #339113 by Kyrin Wyldstar
Replied by Kyrin Wyldstar on topic Purpose

Proteus wrote: I'm sorry Kyrin... I don't believe these words are for you to hand Vergere here. In any case you wouldn't want someone to continue seeing you as a hypocrite of your own claimed philosophy would you? What was it? Something like "Don't dictate to others what they should be / do"? If you ask me, I might even have believed you would understand this philosophy if you would demonstrate why it is a good one. But you fail to show understanding in some seemingly important considerations here...


My latest stalker, you guys just set yourselves up over and over like toy soldiers to be knocked down dontcha. Where exactly did I dictate to anyone what they should be anywhere in this thread?




Proteus wrote: You are not Vegere, you have obvious limited knowledge of Vegere.


An obvious limited knowledge? How could you possible know what knowledge I have of this person?





Proteus wrote: "Life truths" are wasted when issuing them on someone who’s obviously not ready to hear/understand them.



The individual is “obviously” not ready to hear or understand the words? Once again how could you possibly know this? You assume I have limited knowledge and then turn right around and assert you have that knowledge. That is the very definition of hypocrisy on your part.




Proteus wrote: A journey requires every step taken for the hero to learn for themselves what is true and what is not regarding who they are and what should matter most to them.



Well guess what else, hero’s NEVER make that journey or those steps alone. It takes villains and mentors and friends and lovers and challenges to overcome as well. Guess which one I am.





Proteus wrote: I understand that you would like to help Vegere here understand what must be going on with their personal involvement here, but what they have to learn will not and cannot be spelled out to them by a stranger on the internet.



Why not? You seem to feel like I sought this person out and force fed them my opinion against their will and then sat back and demanded they become what I dictated. Well your characterization of these events is just your own delusional self-ego mongering. None of that happened. They came to this place and freely posted a question on this board in the open discussion section for all to reply to freely. That is an invitation that asks for and welcomes opinion and discussion and they are free to reply or not at their will. What you are suggesting is that no one reply to the post at all cuz after all, we are all strangers on the internet, right? Does that really seem logical to you?





Proteus wrote: Whatever you're doing here is making you look like you are simply flaunting yourself about intellectually, because it can't be that you actually think that what you have said is here is going to go very far. After all, how many times have you replied doing this and it turns into 10 pages of circle jerking? I've always tried to take you for someone smarter than someone who keeps doing the same unsuccessful thing over and over just to expect the outcome to be different? The only thing left then seems to be the assumption that you indeed are simply replying here to get another shot at intellectual validation at the the expense of someone else's integrity. Would you call that something a Jedi would do? Hm.. Maybe a Jadaii Ranger... (I don't know much about them, so maybe that might be a thing there?)



The OP sure doesn't need some pompous puffed up knight to step in and attack those that have kindly replied to the Ops request on the OPs behalf by making assumptions and talking out of school about others. If you really cared about this individual you would have sent me a PM. But NO! You had to post this on the open board so you could brag about your prowess and publicly tear down another individual. Frankly The better I know you the more disgusted I become.

This guns for hire, even if we're just dancing in the dark.
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03 Jun 2019 16:29 #339180 by ZealotX
Replied by ZealotX on topic Purpose
Technically, one doesn't need a toilet. It is artificial. If you just want to feel the pull and push of waste leaving your bowels you can do so at any time. No one will stop you. And no one will clean it up if you do it in your house which is also an artificial construct.

We create these artificial constructs as we are pulled and pushed by the force to evolve through the use of our minds and intellect. Some of use build things. Some of us teach. Some of us maintain the things we build. Some of us design them. Some of us operate them.

Just as elements in nature organize and arrange following laws of attraction, we do the same. But you're limiting the Force to creation of a more natural world without human intervention without really realizing that the human intervention is also by inspiration of the Force and people feel it subconsciously and discreetly.

But in order to fully see the Force and it's effect you need to somewhat empty your cup. Because if you think you have something to teach but not to learn (and thus minimizing the role of the IP and the training from established knights) then you're shutting off the power and potential of the Force to work through the IP and the knights to guide you to knowledge you do not currently possess. And this is not me trying to bash you because I feel the same way about myself. None of us knows everything. And so the best we can do is keep and open mind and communicate what we know and what we don't.
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