Manners

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10 Apr 2019 20:44 - 10 Apr 2019 20:46 #337064 by Carlos.Martinez3
Replied by Carlos.Martinez3 on topic Manners
Are manners in a sense - rules ?
Edit : can they be and who dictates them? Is it one of those codes that’s commonly understood ?
Can they be left to the individual themselves?

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Last edit: 10 Apr 2019 20:46 by Carlos.Martinez3.
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11 Apr 2019 02:21 #337070 by Adder
Replied by Adder on topic Manners
Rules and timing perhaps? As I posted somewhere else a month or so ago, I heard a fun thing being said, that 'rules dictate what we do when people (in charge) are watching, and our morals do it when they are not'. So yes a moral framework might 'mute' speech or action in some circumstances, but refining the content or timing of delivery can minimize or remove the conflict between ones moral framework and imperatives to speak or act.

As I certainly don't think its bad to be moral, or even have those morals restrict ones freedom in various ways, to an extent.... certainly not bad enough to throw out having morals!

So for me then the question becomes what moral framework enables the best outcomes for both myself, and everything outside myself. Loose morals, tight morals.... what are morals!?

If morals are 'principles concerning the distinction between right and wrong or good and bad behaviour' then a moral framework will probably need to orientate enough so to avoid the need to constantly map our behaviours to probable and possible impacts as weighted fields for our gut to breeze through with. We don't want to have to over think everything all the time. In other words, I'm not sure gut feelings are reliable in a complex world as the only light to ones path, but our 'second brain' seems to want to help but I'm not sure modern cultures gives it enough resources to work in the details that we live in these days. In the same way instincts work real good in clear and present danger, but more and more less so in unclear or imagined danger.

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11 Apr 2019 19:25 #337080 by Kyrin Wyldstar
Replied by Kyrin Wyldstar on topic Manners
Morals and manners are two completely different things. The first is personally set principles and beliefs about what is right and wrong and come from inside. The second are societal expectations of behaviour and come from outside sources. While manners may be a step in the direction toward morals, they should never be confused with morals.

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11 Apr 2019 19:46 #337081 by Carlos.Martinez3
Replied by Carlos.Martinez3 on topic Manners
I know growing up the way I did in my circle of life - these type of “codes” were only valid if there were more than one side and some times often a stronger side willing to act on them. Strange because in my life - I wasn’t taught to master much but manipulate force and free choice. Fear and will were imposed. In my study I have found , some where some way our codes or I should say as self reflect - I found my codes to be there and some of em I didn’t have a choice in. Now , I totally do but as far as manners go- I found I could cultivate them. As can we all! Thanks for the dialogue all and I look forward to having more- lots or realizations for me on this small path we are sharing now. Force be with y’all as we all seek it - where ever that may be !

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11 Apr 2019 22:54 #337085 by Adder
Replied by Adder on topic Manners

Kyrin Wyldstar wrote: Morals and manners are two completely different things. The first is personally set principles and beliefs about what is right and wrong and come from inside. The second are societal expectations of behaviour and come from outside sources. While manners may be a step in the direction toward morals, they should never be confused with morals.


I agree. I wasn't confusing them, but showing how they can relate functionally, or dysfunctional, in both directions.

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11 Apr 2019 23:13 - 11 Apr 2019 23:15 #337088 by ren
Replied by ren on topic Manners
Manners are like flattery. The yield is great, but in the end it is just cheap trick, a not so great mean to an end that is not necessarily better.

Wiser people should know better than to use or be fooled by such tricks. Maybe it's a typical trait of the shadow path, or perhaps excessive love for stoke-on-trent England, but I see value in people most could not even look at.

Convictions are more dangerous foes of truth than lies.
Last edit: 11 Apr 2019 23:15 by ren.
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11 Apr 2019 23:17 #337089 by Carlos.Martinez3
Replied by Carlos.Martinez3 on topic Manners

ren wrote: Manners are like flattery. The yield is great, but in the end it is just cheap trick, a not so great mean to an end that is not necessarily better.

Wiser people should know better than to use or be fooled by such tricks. Maybe it's a typical trait of the shadow path, or perhaps excessive live for stoke-on-trent England, but I see value in people most could not even look at.


So then it would seem like then in that light, manners are for self quality more than society ? They - can -be I should say. Truthful question. Learning as I go as well- I still ain’t got it all down lol but I’m leaning and - it helps (me)

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12 Apr 2019 02:01 #337091 by Adder
Replied by Adder on topic Manners
I'd say manners are just being polite, rather then being flattery. To me manners are more like creating space (or acting with caution) in the absence of accurate information. It's not a lie, nor is it sarcasm (which is like fake flattery or fake manners) to me. I guess it boils down to intent, but to me manners inherently have good intent otherwise they are not manners but rather being facetious - which to me seems basically like sarcasm but with the a facade of being genuine. Which is why I associated them across to morals because manners seem only to be a problem when they stop you being able to express yourself, and that decision would be based off a conflict with ones moral position and circumstance of interaction.

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12 Apr 2019 02:53 #337092 by ren
Replied by ren on topic Manners

Adder wrote: I'd say manners are just being polite, rather then being flattery. To me manners are more like creating space (or acting with caution) in the absence of accurate information. It's not a lie, nor is it sarcasm (which is like fake flattery or fake manners) to me. I guess it boils down to intent, but to me manners inherently have good intent otherwise they are not manners but rather being facetious - which to me seems basically like sarcasm but with the a facade of being genuine. Which is why I associated them across to morals because manners seem only to be a problem when they stop you being able to express yourself, and that decision would be based off a conflict with ones moral position and circumstance of interaction.


Working in sales I know that mimicking a potential victim increases my chances of turning them into a victim. Politeness to them is is the adoption/observance of their standards, and that's what I do to get their business.

Other people have other standards. For example I find people who will encourage anything , pretend to support something they disagree with, etc, absolutely repulsive. In other words, what I do to earn money, I could never do to myself. I would throw myself out of my house. Politeness, manners, standards, whatever you want to name it... Are a weakness that is easily exploited. Preconceptions shape opinions, so he who controls one controls the other.

It's rife at totjo. Some people here go to great lengths to make it happen.

Convictions are more dangerous foes of truth than lies.
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12 Apr 2019 04:59 #337096 by Adder
Replied by Adder on topic Manners
Depends on the stakes as to if someone is being exploited. What is a victory for one person might be trivial for the other. And politeness for no other reason is as predictable as nastiness for no other reason. That manners can be used or abused doesn't seem like a big enough reason to not have manners IMO. Lies and manipulation can occur under all sorts of guises probably.

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